Hi guys
A friend of mine is planning on starting a pathfinder game soon and I have decided I want to play as an assassin because that's an archetype that I've always found interesting, the problem is I know relatively little about how to make characters in pathfinder (I focus on other games mostly) and don't know how to make one that is both interesting and effective in play.
So what is the best "build" you can think of for an assassin both in terms of effectiveness and theme?
Here are some guidelines.
1) it should fit with the classic archetype of an assassin at least loosely, I'm sure a wizard would assassinate people very effectively but it clearly does not fit the archetype.
2) all classes and archetypes are allowed except for gunslinger and archetypes that use guns. Prestige classes are also permitted as is multiclassing.
3) I would prefer it if the race wasn't too weird but all are permitted, a "build" with flexible race choice would be a bonus.
4) the character should be effective at their job of sneaking around, infiltrating places and efficiently murdering those who are not expecting an attack.
5) my friend has told me that he will be trying to make the game very challenging so the character should be able to fight very effectively, their primary role in combat should be dealing a huge amount of damage and perhaps some debuffing, offense is significantly more important than defense for this character.
6) it is fine if the character is a spellcaster but they should be primarily martial and any spells they do have should be both appropriate to the theme and helpful in their job as an assassin.
7) all alignments are permitted.
8) dual-wielding is cool and earns you bonus points but other weapons are also fine so long as they can be justified, a greatsword for example is not really appropriate as it is very obvious and near impossible to conceal.
I will most likely be changing whatever gets posted here to make the final character my own, the most important thing to me is having a character that is fun to roleplay but as a relatively new player to pathfinder I could use some help with the mechanics and I'm interested in seeing what you guys come up with.
Thanks in advance!
Adrastus
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I'd say that you should start out by looking at the Slayer class from the Advanced Class Guide. It's got stealthiness, sneak attacks, and since it can get access to Ranger Combat Styles, it does the dual-wield thing fairly well.
I'd say that you should start out by looking at the Slayer class from the Advanced Class Guide. It's got stealthiness, sneak attacks, and since it can get access to Ranger Combat Styles, it does the dual-wield thing fairly well.
Thankyou for the insight, I did think the slayer would fit quite well but I wanted to explore my options. I will do some research on how they work :).
If anyone has other ideas I'm 100% open to them.
Adrastus
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Slayer. That's literally all you need.
You build it a lot like you build a rogue and a TWF specilizing ranger. You can even get an Assassinate ability once you get Advanced Slayer talents. It's not actually very good in my opinion, but you can get it. (No assassination abilities in this game are any good).
Slayer(Stygian Slayer) with a Glove of Storing and a adamantine chainsaw(chainsword) with Keen and Silent(new property from Ultimate Intrigue). That is what I play, to say he is nasty is a horrific understatement. Dresses in silken ceremonial armor made to look like plain silk robes, pops out of the shadows and rips into opponents with a previously concealed silent chainsaw leaving mangled corpses in his wake. He is terrifying and has begun having legends and stories of himself told as a sort of bogeyman figure even amongst the assassin community.
Slayer(Stygian Slayer) with a Glove of Storing and a adamantine chainsaw(chainsword) with Keen and Silent(new property from Ultimate Intrigue). That is what I play, to say he is nasty is a horrific understatement. Dresses in silken ceremonial armor made to look like plain silk robes, pops out of the shadows and rips into opponents with a previously concealed silent chainsaw leaving mangled corpses in his wake. He is terrifying and has begun having legends and stories of himself told as a sort of bogeyman figure even amongst the assassin community.
That sounds really cool, I will take a look at that archetype and weapon enchantment. Hopefully one day similar tales will be told of my character :).
Adrastus
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Depending on how the campaign is set up, I would look into a Vigilante with the stalker specialty. This would be for someone who is able to get close to his targets by making them think that he is not a threat. This would be more for social stealth then hiding in the shadows.
Depending on how the campaign is set up, I would look into a Vigilante with the stalker specialty. This would be for someone who is able to get close to his targets by making them think that he is not a threat. This would be more for social stealth then hiding in the shadows.
I'll definitely check that out, any method of getting close to my prey is good. Thanks for the insight mate.
Adrastus
*Edit The campaign will be very sandboxy with alot of variance on where the players can take it, we will most likely have a significant impact on the campaign world whatever we choose to do.
I would actually recommend looking into some sort of grappler build with Bushwhack and Throat Slicer. I'm looking into that right now myself. Can make a pretty nice Assassin's Creed style character... I'm just trying to find the "Silent Takedown" class feature.
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I would actually recommend looking into some sort of grappler build with Bushwhack and Throat Slicer. I'm looking into that right now myself. Can make a pretty nice Assassin's Creed style character... I'm just trying to find the "Silent Takedown" class feature.
Silent Dispatch is a Vigilante Talent.
Thank you, that was driving me crazy.
I would actually recommend looking into some sort of grappler build with Bushwhack and Throat Slicer. I'm looking into that right now myself. Can make a pretty nice Assassin's Creed style character... I'm just trying to find the "Silent Takedown" class feature.
That's a very interesting idea, I quite like that. Monks are quite good at grappling right? They have that archetype that becomes amazing at it. I think I would rather go with the traditional route of stabbing them to death but that is a direction that I will think about too, thanks alot.
Adrastus
What do you guys think about the red mantis assassin? It looks cool but I don't know how effective it would be.
Adrastus
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Persoanlly, I think that you are better off taking Warpriest archetype if you want to go that route.
EDIT: Mantis Zealot
I might just have missed it, as I'm distracted by children, but I didn't notice anything against home brew stuff.
Here is an assassin variant that I created based off of elements both Red Mantis Assassin and Assassin PrCs and the Investigator PrC.
The template is not a required part of the class - it's part of the flavor for that world.
Beyond that, the vigilante and slayer are your best options - Slayer for pure combat potential, while Vigilante allows more subtle skill and sneakiness via social talents and dual identities (as well as several special combat de-/buffs).
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I might just have missed it, as I'm distracted by children, but I didn't notice anything against home brew stuff.
Here is an assassin variant that I created based off of elements both Red Mantis Assassin and Assassin PrCs and the Investigator PrC.
The template is not a required part of the class - it's part of the flavor for that world.
Beyond that, the vigilante and slayer are your best options - Slayer for pure combat potential, while Vigilante allows more subtle skill and sneakiness via social talents and dual identities (as well as several special combat de-/buffs).
Homebrew stuff is fine so long as my GM agrees to it :). I will have a look at it in one sec and then run it by my GM if I like it.
Thankyou for your advice, slayer and vigilante both look like great potential options for me as does the warpriest if I want to go the divine assassin route.
Adrastus
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I'd go with Slayer - they're one of the best classes for assassin-type characters, sporting a high BAB, plenty of skills, very high damage, and thematic skills for tracking down and slaying your mark (pun intended). As far as weapons go, you can easily make a TWF character with good accuracy and damage using this class since it has a variety of damage boosting features (Studied Target and Sneak Attack) along with the ability to bypass that pesky Dex requirement for the TWF line using Ranger Combat Style: TWF.
For this build I go 15+2-14-14-10-13-10, perhaps dumping CHA to 8 and bringing WIS up to a 14 if I feel the Will bonus is worth it. I'd play a Human Slayer for the bonus feat and skill ranks. I'm going to be playing a Dagger-wielding Slayer worshiping Pharasma who believes that his assassin contracts are a necessary part of the cycle, ushering the living to the Boneyard for judgement. At Level 1 I take Iron Will and Seething Hatred (Human) and wield a Longsword 2-handed for a level, taking Studded Leather armor for AC 15 and putting my FCB into health. With a +5 attack bonus and 1d8+5 damage this character is a respectable combatant with decent AC, great Saves, and high HP.
At Level 2 I take Ranger Combat Style for Two-Weapon Fighting and start using 2 daggers against enemies with low AC, but stick with 2-handing a Longsword otherwise - the damage bonus for wielding 2 weapons isn't worth the drop in accuracy at this point. At Level 3 I take Deific Obedience: Pharasma for a +2 Profane bonus to Dagger attack rolls and gain 1d6 Sneak Attack, switching to Daggers for general damage purposes and only using the Longsword for punching through DR. At 4 I take Trapfinding to get Disable Device, Trapfinding, and Trap Sense - this helps me bypass any defenses my mark may have put in place. At 5 I grab Pirhanna Strike, which will be -2 attack / +4 damage.
By Level 5 I expect to have 2 +1 Daggers, a +2 Belt of Giant Strength, a +1 Cloak of Resistance, a +1 Agile Breastplate (ACP -2 or -0 on Acrobatics and Climb), and a Cloak of Elvenkind, which is 13,900 - the rest I expect to use on consumables. I will have Iron Will, Seething Hatred, TWF, Deific Obedience: Pharasma, and Piranha Strike for feats, plus the Trapfinding Slayer Talent. My Level 4 point goes into STR, bumping it up to 18 before my belt's +2. With the listed items and feats I'll have around 47 HP, AC 19, Fort +7, Refl +7, Will +6, CMB +10, CMD 22, and 2 attacks per full attack at +13/+13 (1d4+8/1d4+5 or +6, idk whether to round up or down). Piranha Strike is -2/+4, and Seething Hatred grants another +2 damage against humans. Overall it's pretty solid offensively and built to withstand magic but not very good at defending against attacks just yet. Plus there's skills, Trapfinding, and Sneak Attack to consider on top of that.
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I'd go with Slayer - they're one of the best classes for assassin-type characters, sporting a high BAB, plenty of skills, very high damage, and thematic skills for tracking down and slaying your mark (pun intended). As far as weapons go, you can easily make a TWF character with good accuracy and damage using this class since it has a variety of damage boosting features (Studied Target and Sneak Attack) along with the ability to bypass that pesky Dex requirement for the TWF line using Ranger Combat Style: TWF.
For this build I go 15+2-14-14-10-13-10, perhaps dumping CHA to 8 and bringing WIS up to a 14 if I feel the Will bonus is worth it. I'd play a Human Slayer for the bonus feat and skill ranks. I'm going to be playing a Dagger-wielding Slayer worshiping Pharasma who believes that his assassin contracts are a necessary part of the cycle, ushering the living to the Boneyard for judgement. At Level 1 I take Iron Will and Seething Hatred (Human) and wield a Longsword 2-handed for a level, taking Studded Leather armor for AC 15 and putting my FCB into health. With a +5 attack bonus and 1d8+5 damage this character is a respectable combatant with decent AC, great Saves, and high HP.
At Level 2 I take Ranger Combat Style for Two-Weapon Fighting and start using 2 daggers against enemies with low AC, but stick with 2-handing a Longsword otherwise - the damage bonus for wielding 2 weapons isn't worth the drop in accuracy at this point. At Level 3 I take Deific Obedience: Pharasma for a +2 Profane bonus to Dagger attack rolls and gain 1d6 Sneak Attack, switching to Daggers for general damage purposes and only using the Longsword for punching through DR. At 4 I take Trapfinding to get Disable Device, Trapfinding, and Trap Sense - this helps me bypass any defenses my mark may have put in place. At 5 I grab Pirhanna Strike, which will be -2 attack / +4 damage.
By Level 5 I expect to have 2 +1 Daggers, a +2 Belt of Giant Strength, a +1 Cloak of Resistance, a +1 Agile Breastplate (ACP -2 or -0 on Acrobatics and...
That looks great, this will be really useful when it comes to making my own character. The Sczarni executioner archetype looks like it would go well with the seething hatred feat to get an even larger damage bonus against humans at the expense of one point of attack bonus and damage to other things. Thank you for sharing that I think it will help me alot.
Adrastus
My GM has informed me that the pathfinder unchained rules for poisons and crafting will be in effect, do you guys think it would be worthwhile to invest in poisons as a slayer?
Adrastus
I'm personally a fan of the halfling ninja. I play one in our Hell's Rebels campaign. I made him to be a sneaky infiltrator. I went all in on stealth and sniping so mine is more made for killing things from a distance but with some different feat/trick choices you can just as easily make a melee assassin. The stats looks like this:
7
20
12
10
10
14
For melee feats you can go weapon finesse, two weapon fighting and things of that nature. Then pick up the vanishing trick and shadow clone trick for some cool flavor. The build works just as well for anything with racial bonuses to DEX and CHA, so catfolk, ifrit, and vishkanya if you want a slightly different flavor to the character. They'll obviously end up with slightly different stats after racial adjustments. But it's a good framework to go off of.
I'm personally a fan of the halfling ninja. I play one in our Hell's Rebels campaign. I made him to be a sneaky infiltrator. I went all in on stealth and sniping so mine is more made for killing things from a distance but with some different feat/trick choices you can just as easily make a melee assassin. The stats looks like this:
7
20
12
10
10
14For melee feats you can go weapon finesse, two weapon fighting and things of that nature. Then pick up the vanishing trick and shadow clone trick for some cool flavor. The build works just as well for anything with racial bonuses to DEX and CHA, so catfolk, ifrit, and vishkanya if you want a slightly different flavor to the character. They'll obviously end up with slightly different stats after racial adjustments. But it's a good framework to go off of.
Ninjas are definitely cool, if I were to play one I would have to retheme it to something more western but that's easy enough to do. I like the vanishing trick ability. Good to hear that they can be effective I'll definitely add them to my list of things to check out :).
Adrastus
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I would suggest a sneaky magus. You have a few options here. You could do a bit of multi classing for more damage but fewer spells if you prefer less spell casting.
This would be something like this: Sorcerer 1(tattooed + Cross-blooded)/ Unchained rogue 1/ Magus 4/ Arcane trickster 10.
Oh and you use accomplished sneak attacker to qualify for Arcane trickster.
Use the Fractional bonuses to gain sane saves/bab.
Magical knack will give you full cl. And use either gifted adept or Magical lineage on shocking grasp(your bread and butter spell).
Example damage when you get the drop:
Level 3: 1d6 base + 2d6 sneak + 4d6 electricity + 8 from bloodlines
And this damage will just keep increasing. More sneak, and more spell damage. You should be able to by far be able to out-damage any rogue going for a sneaky kill. You will even be able to sneak with a f&*+ing fireball in the end!
A saner path would be to drop the Sorcerer and not have do dodge the books your GM will be throwing at you though ;)
I would suggest a sneaky magus. You have a few options here. You could do a bit of multi classing for more damage but fewer spells if you prefer less spell casting.
This would be something like this: Sorcerer 1(tattooed + Cross-blooded)/ Unchained rogue 1/ Magus 4/ Arcane trickster 10.
Oh and you use accomplished sneak attacker to qualify for Arcane trickster.
Use the Fractional bonuses to gain sane saves/bab.Magical knack will give you full cl. And use either gifted adept or Magical lineage on shocking grasp(your bread and butter spell).
Example damage when you get the drop:
Level 3: 1d6 base + 2d6 sneak + 4d6 electricity + 8 from bloodlines
And this damage will just keep increasing. More sneak, and more spell damage. You should be able to by far be able to out-damage any rogue going for a sneaky kill. You will even be able to sneak with a f@+$ing fireball in the end!
A saner path would be to drop the Sorcerer and not have do dodge the books your GM will be throwing at you though ;)
Elf would be a good choice for this. Their alternate racial traits alleviate stealth penalties for movement, and have a sweet archetype.
Oooh that's a good idea! Great damage, good stealth, lots of flashy spells. I like that alot, thank you.
Currently it's between sneaky magus and slayer, both are so good for their own reasons it's hard to pick one :).
Adrastus