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From my understanding, bloodragers prefer to cast their spells before or after wading into melee with their bloodrage active, as opposed to the magus, whose class features essentially have them use a weapon in one hand and a spell in the other, using both at the same time. My question is this, then: is Two-Weapon Fighting a viable strategy for bloodragers? I know it's feat-intensive and classes who get extra feats like the fighter or ranger will always have a leg-up in this strategy, but CAN I make it work with a bloodrager (of the Arcane Bloodline, specifically)?
Depends on what mean by viable.
It is possible to TWF with a bloodrager? Yes
Is it going to be any good? No, it will pretty much always be worse than fighting with a two-handed weapon.
TWF requires a lot of feats to be any good at, bloodragers don't have real bonus feats (the bonus feats from bloodlines don't really count IMO). Also rage gives bonuses to strength, but TWF requires dex so it increases your dependence on more stats.
TWF is already worse than fighting with a two-handed weapon for most classes unless you have a big static damage bonus.
With an arcane bloodrager I can guarantee you will deal more damage two-handing than you will trying to TWF.
The only way you can really make this viable at all also requires you to wield a double weapon (which allows you to TWF using each end as a weapon) because if you want to cast spells in combat you would otherwise have to drop a weapon if you did not use a double weapon (spell casting requires a free hand).
If you dipped a level of swashbuckler, and took Agile Dodge you could use CHA to qualify for TWF feats by RAW. Your GM may or may not allow that though.
Eww extra feat sinks.
My closest to TWFing on a bloodrager is with Artanthos, Ender of Encounters. I walked into a fight empty handed, Martial Flex'd into Imp Disarm, and stole 2 longswords, then Martial Flex'd into TWF. You'll note that Artanthos is not a pure bloodrager. I can't comment on the viability of a dedicated TWF bloodrager other than saying "DAAAAAAAAAAANG that's a lot of feats when you practically get no useful bonus feats."
Quickdraw becomes a bit of a necessity with a bloodrager using TWF. If you plan to cast any spells early in combat, you risk losing out on full attacks without it. You can grab it via bloodline feat at 6, but then you hedge out Disruptive until 9, if that was a thing you were wanting. What I'd be looking at for TWF feats if you intend to TWF straight from level 1:
1: TWF
3: Double Slice
5: Power Attack
6: Quickdraw
7: Imp TWF
Anything beyond that is likely just gravy. For attributes, while I can't tell you exactly what to get, I can tell you that Artanthos started at the following:
Str: 18
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 7
Wis: 10
Cha: 12
Overall, that actually sets you up pretty well for everything, though you will need a headband by 10 to progress your casting with that array.
I'd consider TWF if the game was mythic. You get the stat boost to pull it off and mythic abilities to make it worth while.
You don't need Quick Draw if you use a double weapon. Weighted Spear is a decent option if you don't have a racial weapon.
As a primary PFS player, I bristle at double weapons because of the way that they're priced. Depending on GM ruling on how many free actions you can use for grip switching, I suppose that's a reasonable point, though.
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You can probably make a viable TWF Bloodrager as a Dual Talent Human:
S16+2 D14+2 C12 I10 W10 CH13
However, you still need to find a way to cast with two hands occupied.
My personal advice?
At first level, get Exotic Weapon Prof: Sawtooth Sabre.
At 3rd level, get TWF.
At 5th level, get Deific Obedience: Achaekek. That will allow you to cast with a sawtooth sabre in your offhand.
The other option is TWF with a Cestus.
So...a bloodrager pirate with a falcata in one hand and boarding axe in the other'd pretty much be useless in a fight, I presume?
Not useless, but pretty damn bad.
Unless of course you just mean to hold the second weapon in your hand and not attack with it (and thus not actually TWF at all, including spending the feats).
What's really bad is both of those are 1 handed weapons so you would take a -4 penalty to all your attacks just for that.
It's a horrible horrible idea, sorry.
Edit: Boarding axe is a light weapon, so its only a -2. But still bloodragers just aren't designed to TWF. It will go poorly compared to what you could do with using a two-handed and power attack alone.
You will invest lots of feats to maybe do as much damage, and will have lots of problems if you try to cast spells.
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You can probably make a viable TWF Bloodrager as a Dual Talent Human:
S16+2 D14+2 C12 I10 W10 CH13
However, you still need to find a way to cast with two hands occupied.
My personal advice?
At first level, get Exotic Weapon Prof: Sawtooth Sabre.
At 3rd level, get TWF.
At 5th level, get Deific Obedience: Achaekek. That will allow you to cast with a sawtooth sabre in your offhand.
The other option is TWF with a Cestus.
Wouldn't it be easier to just be a half-orc and use a double-axe? Plus that way you get 1.5 STR whenever you can't full attack.
Still not great, but less costly & more effective than Sawtoothed Sabre.
You can probably make a viable TWF Bloodrager as a Dual Talent Human:
S16+2 D14+2 C12 I10 W10 CH13
However, you still need to find a way to cast with two hands occupied.
My personal advice?
At first level, get Exotic Weapon Prof: Sawtooth Sabre.
At 3rd level, get TWF.
At 5th level, get Deific Obedience: Achaekek. That will allow you to cast with a sawtooth sabre in your offhand.
The other option is TWF with a Cestus.
Wouldn't it be easier to just be a half-orc and use a double-axe? Plus that way you get 1.5 STR whenever you can't full attack.
Still not great, but less costly & more effective than Sawtoothed Sabre.
If I were dead set on TWF with a bloodrager this is what I'd do.
Sawtooth Sabers are bad until you get the deific obedience, which requires you to worship the lawful evil god of assassination. Which may not mesh with the flavor he wants here. And that's two extra feats to spend on an already feat intensive build.
Yeah, I guess double weapons are better.
Yeah, I guess double weapons are better.
Only on classes that need a free hand for casting. Otherwise two weapons are fine.
But saw-tooth sabers aren't worth it in general (IMO) because of needing to spend a feat.
The only difference between kukris and sawtooth sabers are kukri are 1d4 18-20x2 crit, while sawtooth sabers are 1d8 19-20x2. The saber wins on base damage, but in the long run the kukris are better because with improved critical you'll have a 10% higher chance of scoring a critical hit. This assume you have something decent to add as a static damage modifier, but IMO only classes which get good static damage modifiers should bother with TWF anyways.
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If you dipped a level of swashbuckler, and took Agile Dodge you could use CHA to qualify for TWF feats by RAW. Your GM may or may not allow that though.Eww extra feat sinks.
My closest to TWFing on a bloodrager is with Artanthos, Ender of Encounters. I walked into a fight empty handed, Martial Flex'd into Imp Disarm, and stole 2 longswords, then Martial Flex'd into TWF.
I GM'ed that fight. It was such an awesome maneuver that I clapped when he pulled that off. He strutted around with those silly longswords for three rooms after that, showing everyone "Look what I did!"
He used them well, too!
Hmm
My question is this, then: is Two-Weapon Fighting a viable strategy for bloodragers? I know it's feat-intensive and classes who get extra feats like the fighter or ranger will always have a leg-up in this strategy, but CAN I make it work with a bloodrager (of the Arcane Bloodline, specifically)?
Two-Weapon Fighting is a viable strategy, though not necessarily with the Arcane Bloodline. Arcane Bloodline offers little to aid two-weapon fighting, except for a good selection of bonus feats.
A two-weapon-fighting bloodrager will have a very different style from most barbarians. Nonetheless, like a barbarian, a bloodrager does not need feats to operate effectively. Rage and bloodline powers handle most combat needs. That frees up the feats from character levels to spend on Two-Weapon Fighting feats.
Technically you COULD make it work, but you shouldn't. A bloodrager already needs strength, constitution, and charisma at least to moderate levels, so adding a minimum 15 dexterity in there is just too much expense for the return on investment.
That is the first obstacle. Two-weapon fighting requires Dex 15 at the start, Improved Two-weapon Fighting requires Dex 17 at 7th level (no way to take it at 6th), and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting requires Dex 19 at 11th level. With stat bonuses at 4th, 8th, and 12th, your bloodrager ought to start with Dex 16 or more. A bloodrager also needs Cha 14. A human with 15-point build could start at Str 13, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 14.
Put a breastplate on the bloodrager for AC 19 (+6 armor, +3 Dex), which is as good as most fighters.
TWF is already worse than fighting with a two-handed weapon for most classes unless you have a big static damage bonus.
The key to an effective two-weapon fighter is to have a source of damage for each hand that does not suffer off-hand penalties as Strength and Power Attack do. It does not have to be static; after all, the rogue's sneak attack is the classic example. One early source is bloodline powers. The Infernal bloodline offers Hellfire Strike at 1st level, "Hellfire Strike (Su): At 1st level, as a swift action up to three times per day you can infuse your attacks with hellfire. When you do, your melee attacks gain the flaming weapon special ability for 1 round. At 12th level, you can use this ability five times per day, and the effect is treated as flaming burst." Elemental Strike from the Elemental bloodline also works, but the rest of the bloodline is not as good. A backup source to take at 5th level is Arcane Strike.
The only way you can really make this viable at all also requires you to wield a double weapon (which allows you to TWF using each end as a weapon) because if you want to cast spells in combat you would otherwise have to drop a weapon if you did not use a double weapon (spell casting requires a free hand).
Good advice. However, your bloodrager won't cast spells before 4th level. And for 4th level through 8th level, the bloodrager can cast at most two 1st-level and two 2nd-level spells a day. He won't cast much during battle. At 11th level, he gains Greater Bloodrage and can cast buff spells on himself with his hands full.
With an arcane bloodrager I can guarantee you will deal more damage two-handing than you will trying to TWF.
This is the main point. The high-Dex bloodrager deals less melee damage but has better ranged attacks, better AC, and better Acrobatics.
So...a bloodrager pirate with a falcata in one hand and boarding axe in the other'd pretty much be useless in a fight, I presume?
He would deal plenty of damage. He would not be death-on-two-feet like a barbarian, but he would have a better chance of staying on his feet.
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I'm not really looking to be "death-on-two-feet." I just wanna look something like this guy without having to play one of the boring classes.
It is possible if you go human urban bloodrager with agile weapons, but they are quite costly
Example build:
20 pt buy
STR: 10 DEX: 18 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 10 CHA: 14
1: Two-weapon fighting, Weapon Finesse
3: Piranha Strike
5: Double Slice
7: Improved Two-weapon fighting
You can go with dual keen weapon later on, or get Improved Critical for 15-20 crit range with Dual-Blooded Aberrant/Fey blooded, take the first level bloodline power Staggering Strike and Confusing Critical, every time you confirm a critical, enemy has to roll Will save to be confused and Fort save to be staggered.
If you are going Aberrant, you also want the 4th level power. Not sure whether to get this before the 2 1st level powers, but Aberrant Reach is good (better than the Sorcerer version, because the Bloodrager version DOESN'T have the clause that says you don't threaten the expanded area). Note that the 1st level Bloodline Powers are slightly antagonistic to each other -- a target that fails both saves won't be as likely to damage its own party as oe that fails the save against just the Confusion effect; however, if most targets save against at least one effect, this isn't much of a problem.
That's true, but mostly just an example how it can lock down an enemy by making them roll multiple different saves to take away their actions, the aberrant reach can be taken at level 8, not ignoring it for sure, certainly a very good bloodline power indeed.
If that is not your cup of tea, you can also go for either elemental's Elemental Strikes or infernal's Hellfire Strike for extra 1d6 damage per hit, or Kyton's Painful Strike for caster disruption.
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I'm not really looking to be "death-on-two-feet." I just wanna look something like this guy without having to play one of the boring classes.
What is a 'boring' class?
Are rangers boring? Slayers? Samurai? Those are probably the 3 best STR based TWF classes.
Unchained Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue can do magic and TWF as a dex based character and get dex to damage. Although you will lack proficiency for the falcata.
If 3rd Party is alright there is the feat Prodigious Two-Weapon Fighting from Path of War Expanded which allows you to use Strength for TWF feats and treat the one-handed weapon in your offhand as light.
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I'm not really looking to be "death-on-two-feet." I just wanna look something like this guy without having to play one of the boring classes.What is a 'boring' class?
Are rangers boring? Slayers? Samurai? Those are probably the 3 best STR based TWF classes.
Yeah. Rangers are boring. I'm already playing a slayer for something else, and samurai don't make very good pirates.
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samurai don't make very good pirates.
Sure they do. The samauri class is just a bundle of mechanics, and those mechanics support being a pirate just as much as they support a noble bushido. You can even gain an aquatic mount.
An Order of the Star Samurai worshiping Besmara would work just fine as a pirate.