ONE PUNCH!!!!! needs clarification


Advice


just checking, I made a build for a one shot where a guy I knew said you cant go toe to toe with the tarrasque as a martial and I made character, long story short, monk+war lord+dragon fury+barb (alignment change towards the end) plus the right style feats and a certain stance equaled tarrasque chunks.

I need to know if I did it right though. okay, I used combat stamina + dragon style and dragon ferocity to get double my strength mod on each hit and was in iron hide stance to double that, so was to I use quadruple my strength or not?


showzilla wrote:

just checking, I made a build for a one shot where a guy I knew said you cant go toe to toe with the tarrasque as a martial and I made character, long story short, monk+war lord+dragon fury+barb (alignment change towards the end) plus the right style feats and a certain stance equaled tarrasque chunks.

I need to know if I did it right though. okay, I used combat stamina + dragon style and dragon ferocity to get double my strength mod on each hit and was in iron hide stance to double that, so was to I use quadruple my strength or not?

It would be X3.

The general rule is that if you're doubling something, you add a multiplier to the original value. This is commonly misconstrued with using the Lance while Mounted, and scoring a Critical Hit. People think "ZOMG, X6 DAMAGE!" when it's actually just X4. Even with a feat like Spirited Charge, which triples the damage dealt via Lance instead of just Double, it's still only a X5 critical.

That being said, I don't think the damage is really the issue. If you get it Unconscious, you can go into Kraken Style, and then proceed to auto-suffocate it, it would die due to being unable to breathe.

Could also try to make it starve/thirst to death, but who has that kind of time?


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
It would be X3.

Triple Damage is still pretty awesome, though.

Dark Archive

What feats and rules were you using anyway?


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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

If you get it Unconscious, you can go into Kraken Style, and then proceed to auto-suffocate it, it would die due to being unable to breathe.

Could also try to make it starve/thirst to death, but who has that kind of time?

The Pathfinder Tarrasque doesn't have immunity to Cold. Once you get it Unconscious, what do you think about Teleporting it inside a Glacier or weighting it and dumping it to the bottom of a polar sea?

The 3.5 Tarrasque doesn't have immunity to Acid, so you wouldn't preserve that one by freezing, but rather by pickling.


Kahel Stormbender wrote:
What feats and rules were you using anyway?

combat stamina +dragon style +dragon ferocity

I was spending stamina on dragon style to make each hit 1-1/2 strength mod, then dragon ferocity makes those hits double strength mod as it normally does for the first hit. after that, we doubled the strength bonus to quadruple.

edit:

we thought

one handed= double

two-handed= triple=1.5x2

my punch=2x2=quadruple

Dark Archive

Did not actually answer my question. Where are you getting stamina? What rules is this from? Is it from Ultimate Combat? I ask cause I've not actually looked into those optional rules. I don't think they're legal in PFS, and the other campaigns I'm in aren't using them.


Pathfinder Unchained.

Dark Archive

Ah, yeah, don't have that book yet. And most of it's not PFS legal. So I'd basically be buying it to get the classes, which I'm not that enthusiastic about.


Kahel Stormbender wrote:
Ah, yeah, don't have that book yet. And most of it's not PFS legal. So I'd basically be buying it to get the classes, which I'm not that enthusiastic about.

well, it's online. either way, its pummelling strike meets dragon style meets iron hide stance. we calced my damage afterwards sans magic items, the tarrasque was still doomed......but it was fun. a by stander stated the tarrasque exploded into atoms.


showzilla wrote:

just checking, I made a build for a one shot where a guy I knew said you cant go toe to toe with the tarrasque as a martial and I made character, long story short, monk+war lord+dragon fury+barb (alignment change towards the end) plus the right style feats and a certain stance equaled tarrasque chunks.

I need to know if I did it right though. okay, I used combat stamina + dragon style and dragon ferocity to get double my strength mod on each hit and was in iron hide stance to double that, so was to I use quadruple my strength or not?

Big T is over-rated, and if that guy doesn't think a martial can take it down to 0 hit points his game-fu is weak.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


That being said, I don't think the damage is really the issue. If you get it Unconscious, you can go into Kraken Style, and then proceed to auto-suffocate it, it would die due to being unable to breathe.

Could also try to make it starve/thirst to death, but who has that kind of time?

Hibernate prevents the Tarrasque from suffocating or starving.

Consider some theme music for your One Punch Man

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Still not following how you get beyond 1.5x for most and 2.0x for one.

Can you quote the rules of the various parts you are using to get to 2.5x or higher?


Dragon Style: +1/2 Str to the first attack.

Dragon Ferocity: An additional 1.5x Str to all attacks in a round.

Total: 1.5x damage to all attacks, +1/2 Str to the first = 2x Str first. 1.5x subsequent.

Iron Hide Stance is from Path of War, and doubles Str mod to damage.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Sundakan wrote:
Iron Hide Stance is from Path of War, and doubles Str mod to damage.

Ok so this whole thread is in the wrong forum?

Should be in the 3rd party rules forum.

I can't read Iron Hide, but at best it is essentially "+1.0x STR" so at best this would be "+3.0x STR and +2.5x STR for the rest."

Combining them breaks a general principal the game is designed around that no attack deals more than 1.5x STR. Yes some things hit 2.0x STR, but hey.


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Who learnt you to math? Everyone knows 2x2=3.


It's a little easier to think of the multiplying rules as additional percents.

x2 is 100% more damage
x3 is 200% more damage
x4 is 300% more damage

So, x2 + x2 is 200% more damage or x2 + x3 is 300% more damage.


There is that. It also helps to think of multipliers as exponents (which, when multiplied, are simply added together).

Damage squared plus damage cubed is damage^5.


Damage x5 != damage^5.

I hit with a lance and do average 20 damage. Spirited charge (x3) 60, crit (x5) 100.

By your calculations it would be 20^3 and 20^5, which are 8,000 and 320,000 respectively.


Snowlilly wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


That being said, I don't think the damage is really the issue. If you get it Unconscious, you can go into Kraken Style, and then proceed to auto-suffocate it, it would die due to being unable to breathe.

Could also try to make it starve/thirst to death, but who has that kind of time?

Hibernate prevents the Tarrasque from suffocating or starving.

Consider some theme music for your One Punch Man

Tarrasque has no such ability. There's nothing in the statblock that says it has such immunities.

Therefore, suffocation/starvation still works. Just beat it down until it's unconscious, then either throw it into a body of water (forcing suffocation), or use the Kraken Style feat chain and force suffocation out in 3 rounds.

Scarab Sages

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Snowlilly wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


That being said, I don't think the damage is really the issue. If you get it Unconscious, you can go into Kraken Style, and then proceed to auto-suffocate it, it would die due to being unable to breathe.

Could also try to make it starve/thirst to death, but who has that kind of time?

Hibernate prevents the Tarrasque from suffocating or starving.

Consider some theme music for your One Punch Man

Tarrasque has no such ability. There's nothing in the statblock that says it has such immunities.

Therefore, suffocation/starvation still works. Just beat it down until it's unconscious, then either throw it into a body of water (forcing suffocation), or use the Kraken Style feat chain and force suffocation out in 3 rounds.

Not in the bestiary, but there is in Inner Sea Gods.


Imbicatus wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Snowlilly wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


That being said, I don't think the damage is really the issue. If you get it Unconscious, you can go into Kraken Style, and then proceed to auto-suffocate it, it would die due to being unable to breathe.

Could also try to make it starve/thirst to death, but who has that kind of time?

Hibernate prevents the Tarrasque from suffocating or starving.

Consider some theme music for your One Punch Man

Tarrasque has no such ability. There's nothing in the statblock that says it has such immunities.

Therefore, suffocation/starvation still works. Just beat it down until it's unconscious, then either throw it into a body of water (forcing suffocation), or use the Kraken Style feat chain and force suffocation out in 3 rounds.

Not in the bestiary, but there is in Inner Sea Gods.

That's a specific kind of Tarrasque. They otherwise generally don't have that ability.

Also, it doesn't even give a description of what it actually does. The only thing I could find that resembled it was that there was some sort of ritual thing (Akata's make a cocoon) that makes them not need food/water. It still certainly needs to breathe. Sure, starvation/thirst is out, but quite frankly there's no real effects that work that way.

There's no mention of being immune to suffocation, or not needing to breathe. Therefore, they can still be killed via Kraken Style feat chain, or being banished into a plane that has no oxygen to breathe with.


Melkiador wrote:

It's a little easier to think of the multiplying rules as additional percents.

x2 is 100% more damage
x3 is 200% more damage
x4 is 300% more damage

So, x2 + x2 is 200% more damage or x2 + x3 is 300% more damage.

I'm going by the stances example.

1 handed weapon uses strenght mod, it doubles to 2x strength mod.

2 handed weapons use 1.5 strength mod, it doubles to times 3 strength mod.

Dragon style does not say "double strength bonus", it says "use 1 1/2 your strength bonus" with ferocity adding another 1/2. Its not a doubling effect stacked on another doubling effect.

Put it another way, would the two handed fighter archetype still use triple his strength bonus?


Beopere wrote:

Damage x5 != damage^5.

I hit with a lance and do average 20 damage. Spirited charge (x3) 60, crit (x5) 100.

By your calculations it would be 20^3 and 20^5, which are 8,000 and 320,000 respectively.

Similar concept, I said, not same math.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Snowlilly wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


That being said, I don't think the damage is really the issue. If you get it Unconscious, you can go into Kraken Style, and then proceed to auto-suffocate it, it would die due to being unable to breathe.

Could also try to make it starve/thirst to death, but who has that kind of time?

Hibernate prevents the Tarrasque from suffocating or starving.

Consider some theme music for your One Punch Man

Tarrasque has no such ability. There's nothing in the statblock that says it has such immunities.

Therefore, suffocation/starvation still works. Just beat it down until it's unconscious, then either throw it into a body of water (forcing suffocation), or use the Kraken Style feat chain and force suffocation out in 3 rounds.

The "updated Tarrasque" is part of a category of monsters known as "Spawn of Destruction" (Inner Sea Bestiary). They all have that as a special quality.

SRD Page.

Specific text:

Spawn of Divine Destruction can sleep for years, decades, or even centuries and do not need to eat or breathe during these periods of dormancy, though they breathe normally and eat ravenously and almost constantly once they've been awakened. If a spawn is forced into an environment where it cannot breathe and would suffocate, it goes into hibernation until conditions are right for it to reawaken.

While in hibernation, a spawn's damage reduction improves to 50/epic and it gains immunity to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance as well as all divination effects.


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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


That's a specific kind of Tarrasque. They otherwise generally don't have that ability.

There's only one Tarrasque.

Silver Crusade

Sundakan wrote:


The "updated Tarrasque" is part of a category of monsters known as "Spawn of Destruction" (Inner Sea Bestiary). They all have that as a special quality.

SRD Page.

Specific text:

Spawn of Divine Destruction can sleep for years, decades, or even centuries and do not need to eat or breathe during these periods of dormancy, though they breathe normally and eat ravenously and almost constantly once they've been awakened. If a spawn is forced into an environment where it cannot breathe and would suffocate, it goes into hibernation until conditions are right for it to reawaken.

While in hibernation, a spawn's damage reduction improves to 50/epic and it gains immunity...

Technically speaking, hibernation only works if the ENVIRONMENT won't let it breath, i.e., being banished to a plane that doesn't have oxygen, it doesn't actually prevent a character choking Big T. to death.


That's splitting hairs at the molecular level at best.

If you want to chuck logic that far, a creature is part of an environment, and you are a creature, therefore you choking it is the environment not letting it breathe.

Sovereign Court

Sundakan wrote:

That's splitting hairs at the molecular level at best.

If you want to chuck logic that far, a creature is part of an environment, and you are a creature, therefore you choking it is the environment not letting it breathe.

So - only non-native outsiders can choke it to death because they're inherently from outside the environment?


They're from a different environment.

Grand Lodge

No, no, they're from outside the environment.

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