So! My party's starting up a new campaign and I'm planning on playing a wizard. I decided on a drow, and I want to be the demon guy. Screw all that Drizzt renegade crap, I want to play a sadistic, evil Drow who conspires with demons and torments his fellow party members for his personal amusement. Figured it'd balance out the cleric of Sarenrae and the paladin of Iomedae in the party. I figured I've got this whole summoning and enslaving demons/daemons/devils/(Maybe demodands? I'm on the fence about it) thing down pat, and I have a good idea of how to passively make money without going out of my way to do so (I'm going to sell a Cacodaemons soul crystals on the Abaddon market, because there's a market for that sort of thing apparently). The last check on my D list is probably the toughest to fulfill. Basically, I want my Drow to become more (I shall henceforth refer to the evil extraplanar beings as the Ds) like the Ds himself. I know there are some prestige classes like demoniac and (Soul eater I think? The daemon one) but I mean actually become similar to one of the Ds, like spell-like abilities and all that. I seem to recall some sort of contract you can make with devils or demons to gain some of their abilities, like summoning other Ds lower on the hierarchy, resistances, spell like abilities, etc. but I can't for the life of me recall it's name. If anyone knows what this is called, some info would be much appreciated. Some tips on other means of gaining stuff like this would also be great, (Outside of wishes obviously) as would tips on summoning Ds (Particularly demondands, since there's little info on then) as I'm still somewhat nervous about doing so. For reference, I'm namely intending on using planar binding.
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So... I'm sure plenty of other people in this thread will offer you mechanical advice, but I'd like to be the first one to tell you that this is a bad idea. Have you talked with your fellow players about your choice of character? How about your GM? I can only see creating this character and sticking it in a party with a NG healer and a LG party face explicitly for the reason to give them a hard time is selfish, and I can only see this ending in a bad time.
Now, if your friends or players or what have you have already agreed to have your character along to intentionally create party strife, I guess that's fine, and is up to your group.
First: did you talk to the players playing the pally and cleric? Is your GM cool with mustache-twirling kitten-soul-selling evil?
Second: calling daemons is a really fast way to die. They just want to kill people, and you're not exempt.
Third: the soul trade is a terrible deal if you aren't working in bulk. I think it works out to something like 50gp per murder? Then you have to get in touch with a buyer using spells that you'd get paid more to cast for somebody else, and convince to soul-trading murderer to buy your souls rather than kill you for your much more valuable soul.
So... I'm sure plenty of other people in this thread will offer you mechanical advice, but I'd like to be the first one to tell you that this is a bad idea. Have you talked with your fellow players about your choice of character? How about your GM? I can only see creating this character and sticking it in a party with a NG healer and a LG party face explicitly for the reason to give them a hard time is selfish, and I can only see this ending in a bad time.
Now, if your friends or players or what have you have already agreed to have your character along to intentionally create party strife, I guess that's fine, and is up to your group.
I talked with the rest of the party, and their fine with it. I don't actually intend to backstabbing them every chance I get, more just harmlessly screw around with them when we're camped and not in any serious danger. Where's the fun in a bunch of goody two shoes running around being noble and helping people? I need a good dose of evil in my party or it's no fun. And if that means sneaking a zombie head into my allies bedroll, then so be it!
First: did you talk to the players playing the pally and cleric? Is your GM cool with mustache-twirling kitten-soul-selling evil?
Second: calling daemons is a really fast way to die. They just want to kill people, and you're not exempt.
Third: the soul trade is a terrible deal if you aren't working in bulk. I think it works out to something like 50gp per murder? Then you have to get in touch with a buyer using spells that you'd get paid more to cast for somebody else, and convince to soul-trading murderer to buy your souls rather than kill you for your much more valuable soul.
1) They're 100% percent ok with a moustache twirling villain. Besides, I wouldn't sell a kittens soul, I'd only get a few gold pieces!
2) Trust me, I aim to be very thorough. Like circle against evil turned inward, sprinkled with holy water, two servants of good on standby, holy dagger in hand thorough.
3) Actually, a basic soul (Commoner, basic bandit) alone goes for about 100 gp. The soul of a bloody slime goes for 10 gp! That's a great deal. A dragon soul can go for hundreds, if not thousands of gp.
I talked with the rest of the party, and their fine with it. I don't actually intend to backstabbing them every chance I get, more just harmlessly screw around with them when we're camped and not in any serious danger. Where's the fun in a bunch of goody two shoes running around being noble and helping people? I need a good dose of evil in my party or it's no fun. And if that means sneaking a zombie head into my allies bedroll, then so be it!So... I'm sure plenty of other people in this thread will offer you mechanical advice, but I'd like to be the first one to tell you that this is a bad idea. Have you talked with your fellow players about your choice of character? How about your GM? I can only see creating this character and sticking it in a party with a NG healer and a LG party face explicitly for the reason to give them a hard time is selfish, and I can only see this ending in a bad time.
Now, if your friends or players or what have you have already agreed to have your character along to intentionally create party strife, I guess that's fine, and is up to your group.
Just make sure to at least pretend to listen to their lectures of morality and changing your ways. Long as they don't try to sense motive they get to be happy that they're 'redeeming you' even if it's a 'slow process'.
Just make sure to at least pretend to listen to their lectures of morality and changing your ways. Long as they don't try to sense motive they get to be happy that they're 'redeeming you' even if it's a 'slow process'.I talked with the rest of the party, and their fine with it. I don't actually intend to backstabbing them every chance I get, more just harmlessly screw around with them when we're camped and not in any serious danger. Where's the fun in a bunch of goody two shoes running around being noble and helping people? I need a good dose of evil in my party or it's no fun. And if that means sneaking a zombie head into my allies bedroll, then so be it!So... I'm sure plenty of other people in this thread will offer you mechanical advice, but I'd like to be the first one to tell you that this is a bad idea. Have you talked with your fellow players about your choice of character? How about your GM? I can only see creating this character and sticking it in a party with a NG healer and a LG party face explicitly for the reason to give them a hard time is selfish, and I can only see this ending in a bad time.
Now, if your friends or players or what have you have already agreed to have your character along to intentionally create party strife, I guess that's fine, and is up to your group.
Naturally. Clerics and Paladins are hilariously simple to fool (Magic notwithstanding) so it shouldn't to to much trouble.
I seem to recall some sort of contract you can make with devils or demons to gain some of their abilities, like summoning other Ds lower on the hierarchy, resistances, spell like abilities, etc. but I can't for the life of me recall it's name.
Could be Deific Obedience with its boons, from Inner Sea Gods.
Some tips on other means of gaining stuff like this would also be great, (Outside of wishes obviously)
Bloodlines (devil, demon, daemon) respective Eldritch Heritage come to my mind. Or be a (drow) tiefling.
I seem to recall some sort of contract you can make with devils or demons to gain some of their abilities, like summoning other Ds lower on the hierarchy, resistances, spell like abilities, etc. but I can't for the life of me recall it's name.Could be Deific Obedience with its boons, from Inner Sea Gods.
Some tips on other means of gaining stuff like this would also be great, (Outside of wishes obviously)Bloodlines (devil, demon, daemon) respective Eldritch Heritage come to my mind. Or be a (drow) tiefling.
As for your first answer, sadly this isn't the case. I can't recall it's name, but I can most definitely remember that it was a direct contract with a devil (I'm fairly certain it was devils now) no archdukes or gods involved.
As for your second option I considered it, but sorcerers bloodlines are more magic based then actually from the beings I'm making the contract with, as I'd prefer. As for the tiefling, I'd prefer to stay drow, just for the spell like abilities.
*Slides into the room*
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You may be thinking of the Diabolist prestige class, the Demoniac prestige class, the Souldrinker prestige class or the Blackfire Adept prestige class, all of which give boosts and bonuses to summoning different evil outsiders.
Also there is the Demonic Obedience feat, which is the Demon Lord version of the Deific Obedience mentioned earlier.
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That paladin player does know he can't routinely associate with Evil characters, which includes you, right?
In 99% of tables out there, this is going to cause PvP conflict. I'd be REAL wary of doing this. I think one of your set is going to have to give, or at the very least the paladin is going to fall JUST because you decided to play Evil in a party with a paladin.
==Aelryinth
I seem to recall some sort of contract you can make with devils or demons to gain some of their abilities, like summoning other Ds lower on the hierarchy, resistances, spell like abilities, etc. but I can't for the life of me recall it's name.
I seem to recall some sort of contract you can make with devils or demons to gain some of their abilities, like summoning other Ds lower on the hierarchy, resistances, spell like abilities, etc. but I can't for the life of me recall it's name.Devilbound creature?
Why thank you, I do believe that's what I was looking for.
That paladin player does know he can't routinely associate with Evil characters, which includes you, right?
In 99% of tables out there, this is going to cause PvP conflict. I'd be REAL wary of doing this. I think one of your set is going to have to give, or at the very least the paladin is going to fall JUST because you decided to play Evil in a party with a paladin.
==Aelryinth
I was planning on taking the mask of virtue feat, so I can trick the silly paladin and cleric. Their gods can hardly blame them for associating with a character who's alignment they don't know.
I was planning on taking the mask of virtue feat, so I can trick the silly paladin and cleric. Their gods can hardly blame them for associating with a character who's alignment they don't know.That paladin player does know he can't routinely associate with Evil characters, which includes you, right?
In 99% of tables out there, this is going to cause PvP conflict. I'd be REAL wary of doing this. I think one of your set is going to have to give, or at the very least the paladin is going to fall JUST because you decided to play Evil in a party with a paladin.
==Aelryinth
However, I think it's fair to say that their God can blame them for a display of willful ignorance that borders on criminal negligence.
There's only so much you can get away with before any semi-competent character realizes what's going on. Your for-the-evulz parody of a character is almost certainly going to go well beyond that point if your description of them isn't misleading. I would seriously try to guess what is going to happen if and when your character is found out, and if the answer involves at least one player rolling up a new character then I would suggest modifying or shelving your character concept.
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I agree that this will end poorly for at least one character.
The cleric of Iomedae will be bound by conduct to try to get you to repent when she learns of your evil, or kill you.
And the paladin is pretty much just obligated to kill you.
You might win instead, but someone is going to lose their character, it's all a matter of how long it takes to reach that point.
It's a wiser decision to shelve this character until you have a party this isn't composed of a good aligned cleric and a paladin.
I'd caution you against doing this because it's extremely likely to end poorly for one of your characters, and reason that even Paladins are capable of being RP'd as complex jerks, and not goody-two-shoes, but everyone else has already done that.
Instead, I'll just leave this link here and tell you to scroll down to the Becoming a Demon section, and wonder aloud if your GM would ever consider using this as a guideline for something more balanced for PC's.
From what I've read, it seems to me that they're going for a far less rigid "good" and "evil" approach. Maybe double-check with the GM whether it's ok for the good divine characters to work with an evil guy (which the GM can allow, because "the GM says so" beats "the rules say so"), but all-in-all, this seems more like "alignment-caricatures" then like actuall alignment conflict. He seems more like the token evil team mate that does morally questionable stuff when no one's looking, but tags along with the heroes and helps saving the day anyway.
I was planning on taking the mask of virtue feat, so I can trick the silly paladin and cleric. Their gods can hardly blame them for associating with a character who's alignment they don't know.That paladin player does know he can't routinely associate with Evil characters, which includes you, right?
In 99% of tables out there, this is going to cause PvP conflict. I'd be REAL wary of doing this. I think one of your set is going to have to give, or at the very least the paladin is going to fall JUST because you decided to play Evil in a party with a paladin.
==Aelryinth
You could also take a level dip into Cleric or Inquisitor for the Espionage Domain, or Inquisitor with the Infiltrator archetype, to detect as any alignment you want. You'd actually detect as the new alignment, so the paladin could actually think you were Chaotic Good if that's what you wanted.
This character might be fun in a party with the right composition.
BUT this is not the party.
Sarenrae-Cleric needs to try to convert you, and that obviously doesnt work, needs to destry you, or will break his god's code and loose his spells. The Paladin is not allowed to associate with you over a longer time, or will fall, due to his Code.
This might fly for one short adventure, but not for a campaign. Your character conecpt is willfully disruptive for the already determined party composition.
I strongly advice you to choose another concept and shelf this one for another time.
Those other players said they're OK with it. Now. And they think they are. But they'll grow tired of it. It will grow old. Any long-term campaign where one player "torments his fellow party members for his personal amusement" on any regular or even semi-regular basis will get old.
I wouldn't enjoy playing a character in that group to be tormented for your amusement. But then again, I wouldn't ever tell you that I'm OK with it in the first place.
I think any adventurer that chooses the most dangerous profession on the most dangerous world imaginable (and let's face it, adventuring by going to places full of deadly monsters and lethal traps and powerful magics, in a world where terrible evil nasty things exist, dragons and demons are real, wishes and timestops and meteor swarms exist, etc., is the most dangerous, and probably the most stupid, career decision imaginable) would be dead before reaching level 2 unless he is smart enough to surround himself with 100% trustworthy and 100% competent allies to give him (them) a chance of surviving.
That means that the rest of your group has NO reason to adventure with you because they cannot ever trust an "ally" who "torments them for his own amusement". And they would be stupid, idiotic, suicidal, to adventure with this character.
I wouldn't do it. They shouldn't do it.
And you shouldn't expect them to, no matter what they say right now.
It's a group game. Play to have fun together. Never play to have fun at the expense of your fellow players.
From what I've read, it seems to me that they're going for a far less rigid "good" and "evil" approach. Maybe double-check with the GM whether it's ok for the good divine characters to work with an evil guy (which the GM can allow, because "the GM says so" beats "the rules say so"), but all-in-all, this seems more like "alignment-caricatures" then like actuall alignment conflict. He seems more like the token evil team mate that does morally questionable stuff when no one's looking, but tags along with the heroes and helps saving the day anyway.
Yeah, that's basically the situation. I'm going to contribute to the party and tag along for the town saving stuff, I'm just going to do some evil things on the side. The good party members are going to be passively aggressively trying to turn me to the side of good. Most people on here seem to be misunderstanding what I'm going for here. I'm not going to operate in a way that's detrimental to the party or ignore crises to tinker with my evil minions off in some dark corner of the room. If things get serious I'm going to put aside my dark summonings to help the rest of the party. This is just going to be the stuff I do during that boring as hell downtime that has to happen in long term games. I'm not going to play pranks that will actually harm the party in any way, just harmless stuff that would be considered "Evil" but not so evil that the others will feel obligated to kill me on a regular basis. I'm also going to be careful about all the summoning I'm going to be doing. I'm not just going to bamf some demon out of nowhere and try to negotiate with it. Ok, that's exactly what I'm going to do, just with planar locks and magic circles against evil and cold iron weapons in the way. I'm also never going to summon something that the party (Or in some cases I alone) can't handle. Just because my character's evil doesn't mean he's go into just go ahead and summon balors and pit fiends right out the gate. To be clear, my characters going to be evil, but all the evil things he do will in some way benefit him self and in some cases the rest of the party.
You seem to think you'll be having fun with this, but in all my experience, all you're doing is going to make things uncomfortable and unfun for the rest of the party.
You are causing conflict with the rest of your team and thinking its funny.
I would shelve this concept until you get a more neutral-aligned team who can both tolerate it and get back at you with equal humor.
I predict a fiery crash if you stick with it.
==Aelryinth
You seem to think you'll be having fun with this, but in all my experience, all you're doing is going to make things uncomfortable and unfun for the rest of the party.
You are causing conflict with the rest of your team and thinking its funny.
I would shelve this concept until you get a more neutral-aligned team who can both tolerate it and get back at you with equal humor.
I predict a fiery crash if you stick with it.
==Aelryinth
You guys are no fun ): Still, you're probably right. I think I'll shelve this for later. Damn, got to think up another character now...well, I found the information I needed anyway (The contract allows you to become devilbound apparently). I'm still curious about whether selling souls on the market would work. Oh well.
Something else you could do. You could be a mystic theurge cleric wizard. Drow get a demonic archetype for clerics which gives you a quasit familiar stacking with wizard. Truly embrace the demons. Also, I'd pick one d and stick with it. There is a whole bunch of each kind, but devils and demons hate each other. This would be good for an evil campaign. House are always fun.