So I just ran into an interesting problem.
Power attack requires 13 str.
Most feats that build off of Power attack also require the str 13.
But lets say there's a feat (maga hit) that needs power attack and doesn't require str 13, what happens to this feat if my str went below 13? I know I'd lose the ability to do a power attack, but would I also lose (mega hit)?
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Are you talking a permanent decrease in strength?
Per RAW, you would lose the use of mega hit but not the feat.
Prerequisites
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.
A character can't use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables.
so If I still had power attack why would I be losing Mega hit?
Mega hit's only pre req is having power attack, Mega Hit doesn't list a str requirement.
If you dont fulfill the prereqs of a feat anymore it becomes inactive. This will lead to a domino-effect for feat chains.
For example if you have Power Attack (STR 13+) and Cleave (Power Attack) and get enfeebled to STR 8 --> Power Attack becomes inactive --> without Power Attack you dont fulfill he prereqs of Cleave any more --> Cleave becomes inactive.
Untill you get your STR back up again, being enfeebled means that you are currently too weak to use the Power Attck -Cleave chain.
Looking at the feat chains on the PRD, if a prerequisite feat has an ability score requirement that requirement is repeated in every other feat that has the original feat as a prerequisite. Look at:
Power Attack > Cleave > Great Cleave
Combat Expertise > Improved Disarm > Greater Disarm
Dodge > Mobility > Spring Attack
So, since every other chain seems to follow that guideline, a theoretical feat that requires Power Attack (min Str 13) as a prerequisite would also have a minimum Str 13 requirement.
A (potentially) more commonly occurring example would be Two-Weapon Fighting and enlarge. While under the effect of the enlarge spell, the character is at -2 Dex; if the -2 causes the character's effective Dex to drop below 15, they lose the benefit of the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (and any other feats in the chain)* until the enlarge effect is dispelled or ends.
*- unless combat style feats (ranger, slayer) that explicitly ignore prerequisites when not in heavy armor.
Looking at the feat chains on the PRD, if a prerequisite feat has an ability score requirement that requirement is repeated in every other feat that has the original feat as a prerequisite. Look at:
Power Attack > Cleave > Great Cleave
Combat Expertise > Improved Disarm > Greater Disarm
Dodge > Mobility > Spring AttackSo, since every other chain seems to follow that guideline, a theoretical feat that requires Power Attack (min Str 13) as a prerequisite would also have a minimum Str 13 requirement.
See I've noticed that, but I've found a handful of feats that don't include the stat in the later feats. Hence asking this question
If you dont fulfill the prereqs of a feat anymore it becomes inactive. This will lead to a domino-effect for feat chains.
For example if you have Power Attack (STR 13+) and Cleave (Power Attack) and get enfeebled to STR 8 --> Power Attack becomes inactive --> without Power Attack you dont fulfill he prereqs of Cleave any more --> Cleave becomes inactive.
Untill you get your STR back up again, being enfeebled means that you are currently too weak to use the Power Attck -Cleave chain.
But I still have power attack, does it really care that I be able to use my feat and not just have it?
A (potentially) more commonly occurring example would be Two-Weapon Fighting and enlarge. While under the effect of the enlarge spell, the character is at -2 Dex; if the -2 causes the character's effective Dex to drop below 15, they lose the benefit of the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (and any other feats in the chain)* until the enlarge effect is dispelled or ends.
*- unless combat style feats (ranger, slayer) that explicitly ignore prerequisites when not in heavy armor.
This is the situation that caused it. Thunder and fang requires two weapon fighting but not the 15 dex itself. Player doesn't care about two weapon fighting with it, they want to enlarge and have the 3d6 and the shield. So enlarge makes the twf not work but does thunder and fang stop for them too?
I had a broadly similar question. Obviously there are differences between the situations, but parallels can be drawn. Seems there is no RAW answer but common sense is that if you can't use a feat, you don't count as having it - in my instance to trigger allies teamwork feats, in yours to count as a pre-req.
Enlarge shouldn't affect it; Temporary penalties (and bonuses) don't affect your prerequisites. Your Dex is still 15, it's just taken a penalty.
Likewise, being Fatigued wouldn't affect his Feats.
Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores. This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability.
Some spells and abilities cause you to take an ability penalty for a limited amount of time. While in effect, these penalties function just like ability damage, but they cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die. In essence, penalties cannot decrease your ability score to less than 1.
If he was Dex Drained that would be another matter.
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Sundakan@ has the right answer for this specific case: A temporary drop (damage or penalty) does not reduce your actual score and won't affect whether you meet prerequisites.
In cases of Drain or race changing I believe you still have the feat, you simply lose access to its benefits, so you could theoretically still use feats with it as a prerequisite, but there are only a small number of cases where that's helpful due to prerequisite repeating that frequently happens.
To do it any other way would play havoc with a handful of prestige classes. For example, what would happen to a shadowdancer if it had dex 13 and took 2 dex drain? Would it lose its Dodge feat and thus no longer meet prerequisites for entire class levels? I don't know.
(My table house-rules away all ability score prerequisites for feats, so this doesn't matter for us. But it's a fun thought experiment.)
So I could go large and still twf even though my dex would be 13 because it's a temporary effect?
More accurately because it's a penalty. Penalties never actually reduce your dexterity. You never have a dexterity of 13. In the unlikely event that you were suffering from a permanent penalty you would still have a dex of 15 with a -2 penalty.
Only ability drain changes your ability score.
More accurately because it's a penalty. Penalties never actually reduce your dexterity. You never have a dexterity of 13. In the unlikely event that you were suffering from a permanent penalty you would still have a dex of 15 with a -2 penalty.
Only ability drain changes your ability score.
Precisely. Permanent effect a la Ability Drain - score actually reduced. Temporary effect like Ability Damage or size increase - score suffers from a penalty, but remains unchanged.
The rules for permanent bonuses should probably apply to penalties that last over 24 hours too, but that's obviously questionable.