So... I sorta was fiddling around with something today. I am not sure how appealing this might be overall... There are limited selections made and a couple of overlaps in the domain spells. Also I knew that Sun/Moon/Star would be the idea behind the focus but variant channeling does not list anything for the Void- so I interpreted that as Darkness (which, technically, should be for the Moon) and used Madness for the Moon since there were similar themes amongst the abilities themselves (I am not entirely sold on it and if anyone has alternatives I am ALL EARS!)
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1/2 bab, 2+INT skills, d6 HD, 9th level casting progression using cleric spell list, spell casting progression like a witch, spells operate on WIS like a cleric and are divine.
The Celestial Witch would worship/revere the Sun/Moon/Stars (and the darkness between the lights as well) rather than a deity. Still needing a holy symbol it might be an athame (tool for channeling energies) or a mirror (tool for directing light) costing the same price as a standard holy symbol.
Lvl 1: Aura-standard for their alignment, Channel Energy 1d6- positive/negative selected at level one and not related to alignment, Domains: Sun, Star, Sun, orisons, spontaneous casting (domains only)
Lvl 2: Celestial Channeling: Choose one type of Variant channeling (Sun, Darkness, Madness), 1/day you can utilize this channel increasing the channel die by one step (this is in addition to normal channeling)
Lvl 3: Hex, the celestial witch gains her powerful hexes by opening herself to the possibilities of the heavens. Use Wisdom in place of Intelligence as the ability score for hexes and Major hexes.
Lvl 4: Channel Energy 2d6
Lvl 5: Celestial Channeling: Choose one type of Variant channeling (Sun, Darkness, Madness), 1/day you can utilize this channel increasing the channel die by one step. Bonus Channeling Feat
Lvl 6: Hex
Lvl 7: Channel Energy 3d6
Lvl 8: Celestial Channeling: Choose one type of Variant channeling (Sun, Darkness, Madness), 1/day you can utilize this channel increasing the channel die by one step.
Lvl 9: Hex
Lvl 10: Channel Energy 4d6, Bonus Channeling Feat
Lvl 11: Celestial Channeling: Choose one type of Variant channeling (Sun, Darkness, Madness), 1/day you can utilize this channel increasing the channel die by one step.
Lvl 12: Hex
Lvl 13: Channel Energy 5d6
Lvl 14: Celestial Channeling: Choose one type of Variant channeling (Sun, Darkness, Madness), 1/day you can utilize this channel increasing the channel die by one step.
Lvl 15: Major Hex, Bonus Channeling Feat
Lvl 16: Channel Energy 6d6
Lvl 17: Celestial Channeling: Choose one type of Variant channeling (Sun, Darkness, Madness), 1/day you can utilize this channel increasing the channel die by one step.
Lvl 18: Major Hex
Lvl 19: Channel Energy 7d6
Lvl 20: Celestial Channeling: Choose one type of Variant channeling (Sun, Darkness, Madness), 1/day you can utilize this channel increasing the channel die by one step, Power of the High Priestess
Power of the High Priest/Priestess: The Celestial Witch further develops her connection to the heavens. When in the presence of Daylight (for Sun channeling), Moonlight (for Madness channeling) or in natural environments devoid of light (for Darkness channeling) she increases the die size by 3 steps (this includes the normal increase for Celestial Channeling).
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There is definitely a focus on channeling (as in THIS girl has normal channeling AND an additional Variant channeling up to 7 more times a day. I can't decide whether this makes the class overpowered or underpowered since there was an attempt at scaling back the die of channeling?
Ultimately... I think this could make an interesting healer (though possibly impractical)
That's an awful lot of class features for a 9/9 spellcaster (those are the ones that are supposed to have some blanks in their class tables for things other than spellcasting progression). Might want to at least cut the spell list down to the Shaman spell list, although that might have trouble because the Shaman spell list is supposed to be a core that gets fleshed out by their Spirit and Wandering Spirit, although here you have a 2/3 set of Hexes (and eventually Major Hexes) to flesh it out.
Seems overpowered compared to the existing Hex Channeler Witch archetype, even with the shift to a purely divine spell list, but I do like the idea of somebody being able to get multiple types of Variant Channeling eventually.
Anyway, this is of some potential interest for this Cleric Overhaul thread.
Also, "Celestial" often refers to a connection to the Upper Planes, whereas what you describe has no requirement to have a connection to the Upper Planes, so this choice of name could be confusing.
I was reading that thread. I had tried to make a class like this using a swap out system of class features that (I want to say Rogue Genius goes) but it didn't quite allow for the degree of specification.
The thing is I think this sorta NEEDS the extra juice to support that "mage cleric" role. The wizard sorcerer spell list is pretty advanced all by itself, shaman and witches get the benefit of Grand hexes.
I thought the addition of the Bonus Channeling Feats were not entirely necessary but it helps narrow the focus of the class.
I suppose having a single feat at level 10, removing major hexes and having fewer celestial channelings could pull back???
I was using celestial to refer to 'celestial bodies' I guess- Astronomy Witch could work lol lacks the same flavor.
I like the idea of a class that has different abilities at different times of the day and would encourage you to make that element more pronounced. (I still have an unfinished witch-archetype somewhere that can choose between the four seasons as patrons to gain different powers each day.) Channeling positive energy at day and negative energy at night might be an interesting twist.
I kind of like the idea.... but I'm not sure what 'thematic hole it plugs'
I actually think it more makes the basis of a new oracle archetype rather than a new hybrid class (which if truth be told I'm not entirely keen on!)....
^Well, for one thing, it would add a divine spellcaster that isnt semi-made for physical combat, but instead has more other abilities, as in the Cleric Overhaul thread linked above.
That's an awful lot of class features for a 9/9 spellcaster
The entire Channel Energy progression is basically one class feature. For this class and the cleric, all of the +dice entries are more of a place holder than anything else. But still, if this has 9-level prepared coasting, then it is probably too many class features.
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2/3 channel progression
2/3 hex progression (note: the hexes themself have full progression)
2 domains, although you can't choose
bonus feat every 5 levels
that "Celestial Channeling" thing
First, this is definitly not a class but an archetype (a class needs more choices and more different ways to play).
Second, that's way too many class features for a full caster. The hexing is weaker but not by that much (Extra Hex feat does exist, and you don't really need that many hexes). A full caster should normally not get too many new or improved class features at levels he gains a new spell rank (although cleric actually breakes that rule, it's still a good guideline to follow). If you don't have empty spots on a full caster's class table, you're doing something wrong.
Third, your class features don't really work together that well, at least not in any interesting way. Some interaction between hexes and channeling would be nice (like adding the effect of a hex onto channeling, kinda like variant channeling). Also, the cleric spell list is even more focussed on will saves than the witch list (which doesn't really complement all those "will negates"-hexes) and you really don't want to use touch spells with those HD/BAB values. This class /archetype would be extremly good at sitting back, buffing/healing the party and throwing the occasional hex araund; but not at much else.
Overall, I like the idea of a divine witch, but I think druid would be a better chassis. Or maybe a shaman archetype where you trade (some of) your spirit/wandering spirit/wandering hex stuff for (reduced) channeling where you cann add hexes. You don't really want to have hexes in combination with a good spell list, after call.
I think I figured it out. Instead of progressing Channel Energy and Hexes at a reduced rate.
At First level you gain 1d6 channel energy (I also like that it is positive during the day and Negative at night time- but that is maybe something else to consider- Thanks Amanuensis)
At level 2 you gain a Hex (modified for WIS)
Then at level 3 you can choose between an additional hex OR progressing channel energy, and you gain the Celestial Channeling ability.
Celestial channeling tracks every 3 levels (so 6,9,12,15,18) for a total of 6, and you have at LEAST one hex, maybe a couple.
How does that help for balance?
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I've spent along time creating hybrid-style classes. First off, this is overpowered as there are too many class features for a full caster class with even a d6 for HD.
I like the idea of the different astronomical domains and the variant channeling concepts, but its too much. Look at the cleric. She gets 2 domains (spells and powers), full channeling, and full casting.
Dropping to d6 gives you a bit of wiggle room in redesigining, but not much. Dropping to 7d6 channeling (instead of 10d6) is a good start too, but its still doesn't give you enough wiggle room to add in all the bonus channeling feats, 3 domains, and all the hexes as well.
If this is primarily a channeling hybrid class with a bit of hexing, then it should be limited to hexes (no major hexes).
Let me just jump right to it. You have 2 choies...
1) d6, full caster, and reduced features (likely only 1/2 BAB)
or
2) drop to a d8 3/4 caster, which gives you a lot more design room (3/4 BAB).
First let me address option #1
1) Change the domain ability to function like this: From dawn to dusk, she gains access to the "Sun" domain, from dusk to dawn, she gains access to the "Moon" domain (scrap the Star domain). Could also just tie them to daytime/night time. Tie this also to your variant channeling, allowing whichever domain is in dominance to determine the variant channeling.
Doing this gives the DW access to both domains, but during different times of the day.
2) Next you can tie the use of hexes to the use of channel energy. So, she can expend a use of channel energy to either channel energy, OR use a hex. This ties one class feature to the resource of another, allowing for the use of an additional class feature fairly. Sort of how paladins can channel energy by spending 2 uses of lay on hands.
However, since there is the limiting of a single domain in use at a time, which means spells and domain powers from a second domain are lost, you might be able to get away with a limited number of hexes without being OP, maybe only 3, or perhaps 5. Some testing would need to occur.
3) Then, allow the domain-related variant channeling to be usable x/day. This limits its use, but also again adjusts to which domain is in dominance at the time.
4) Going with 1/2 BAB also gives you a bit more design space, and sticking with the Cleric spell list helps too.
So, with a 1/2 BAB, d6, full caster, domain spells, good Will/bad Fort & Ref saves, you could have something like this.
1st - Aura, channel energy 1d6, domain (changes during day),
orisons, spontanteous casting (domain spells only)
2nd - Hex
3rd -
4th - Channel energy 2d6
5th - Variant channeling 1/day
6th - Hex
7th - Channel energy 3d6
8th -
9th -
10th - Channel energy 4d6, hex
11th - Variant channeling 2/day
12th -
13th - Channel energy 5d6
14th - Hex
15th -
16th - Channel energy 6d6
17th - Variant channeling 3/day
18th - Hex
19th - Channel energy 7d6
20th - Power of the high priestess
For the other, this is my suggestion.
Again this would be a 3/4 BAB, d8, 3/4 casting, good Fort & WIll/bad Ref saves hybrid.
1) Everything as above (class feature-wise), except...
2) The number of variant channeling per day increases to 6/day
3) Gain more hexes and access to major hexes (no grand hexes)
4) Still have domain spells, and spontanteous casting is domain spells only.
So like this
1st - Aura, channel energy 1d6, domain (changes during day),
orisons, spontanteous casting (domain spells only)
2nd - Hex
3rd - Variant channeling 1/day
4th - Channel energy 2d6
5th - Hex
6th - Variant channeling 2/day
7th - Channel energy 3d6
8th - Hex
9th - Variant channeling 3/day
10th - Channel energy 4d6,
11th - Hex, major hexes
12th - Variant channeling 4/day
13th - Channel energy 5d6
14th - Hex
15th - Variant channeling 5/day
16th - Channel energy 6d6
17th - Hex
18th - Variant channeling 6/day
19th - Channel energy 7d6
20th - Power of the high priestess
Those are my suggestions.
Might also be worth giving another look at what the existing Shaman (with or without archetypes) and Spirit Guide Oracle do. I say giving another look because for some reason it seemed really difficult to figure out what the Shaman class can actually do, but eventually I figured out that it comes out being not too far off from what you want, except never going to Major Hex or Grand Hex, and having a more restricted core spell list (although with the right Spirit selection you can get around a lot of that restriction). You can even get Positive Energy Channeling on a Shaman or Spirit Guide Oracle with the Life Spirit or Mystery/Revelation; in the case of Spirit Guide (or any type of) Oracle, you will be a Channeling Monster. (Strangely, no Oracle Mystery or Shaman Spirit exists that has anything other than a very restricted Negative Energy Channeling, that can only be used for Command Undead, in the Bones Mystery or Spirit or the Juju Mystery).
That's an awful lot of class features for a 9/9 spellcaster (those are the ones that are supposed to have some blanks in their class tables for things other than spellcasting progression).
Look at the Oracle and Scorcerer. Both have something nearly every level. The Cleric and Witch get something every other level. By this logic they are already overpowered.
Oracle gets a revaluation every four levels, and a bonus spell every other level. Adding one bonus spell to your list of spells known hardly counts as a full class feat. Half of these spells are minimally useful anyways. It's more like an extension of the mystery and spellcasting class features.
Sorcerer: No Class features at levels where they get a new spell rank.
Witch: No Class features at levels where they get a new spell rank.
Shaman: No Class features at levels where they get a new spell rank.
Arcanist: No Class features at levels where they get a new spell rank.
Oracle: The class feature they get at levels where they get a new spell rank is... a spell.
Druid: Only minor class features at levels where they get a new spell rank. I mean, Venom Immunity is the only one that does anything (and Neutralize Poison is on your spell list)...
Wizard: They are kinda lacking class features in the first place. They get a bonus feat at 5 and 15, but new feat at the same time as a new spell rank is nothing new for a prepared caster. The school powers are at level 6 or 8, i.e. off-levels.
Cleric: As I already said on my first post, this one's a little weird. They get a new channel die at levels where they get a new spell rank, so this kinda breaks the rules. The domain abilities are gained at off-levels though.
@What's in the box?: Before you start with the balancing, first ask yourself "What is this class supposed to do?". A witch that can heal? Hex Channeler already does that. A bad touch cleric without the touch part? I think controller oracle already does that.
What you did here is not a hybrid between cleric and witch but the best of both worlds. Or, in other words, a witch without the downside of the weak spell list.
The thing is, even with reduced hex and channeling progression, you have three defining class features. Quite frankly, after giving it some mor thought, I see no way of having hexes and channeling in a useful amount on a full caster.
I would go even further than Elghinn Lightbringer: Either 6/9 caster with 2/3 progression on both channeling and hexes, or a 4/9 caster (or alchemecal "caster", I'm not quite sure about this one) with full progression on hexes and channeling plus a class feature to combine them.
A different way to eliminate the problem would be to not make the hexes stand alone abilities. Cleric archetype, no domains, you can select a few hexes (shaman list without fetish, secret, shapeshift, tongues, and witch hex) and apply their effects on your channeling by reducing the dice. For instance, when you channel negative energy to harm, every target that fails it's will save is now under the effect of evil eye.
Might still need the "Diminished Spellcasting" thing some cleric archetypes have.