Hello smart people. We have just started Wrath deck 4 and we are confused by this new barrier. The exact wording is:
"If undefeated, discard a number of cards from your deck equal to your hand size; otherwise, discard a number of cards from your deck equal to half your hand size, rounded down."
At first I was confused because I thought that both sides of the semi colon applied to it being undefeated. That would be silly, so I assume that the second half applies to it being anything other than undefeated. My friend says that if he evades the barrier he gets to ignore all powers on the card.
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Currently I am playing a Cleric (Tarlin) with a hand size of 6.
Should the barrier not be defeated, I would draw and discard 6 cards directly from my deck.
Should I defeat the barrier (as I chose Mythic Guardian for him, Divine 17 isn't exactly to Tarlin's strengths- I would need a Blessing for 2d8 and have to hope for a 13+ on those two dice)- I would draw and discard 3 cards from my deck.
Remember the Encountering a Card section:
1) Apply any effects that happen when you encounter a card.
2) Apply any evasion effects.
3) Apply any effects that happen before you act (BYA).
4) Attempt the check.
5) Attempt the next check, if needed.
6) Apply any effects that happen after you act (AYA).
7) Resolve the encounter.
So, if your friend evades, that would be in step 2- well before attempting the check, any BYA or checks and resolution of the card.
-- Steve
Hello smart people. We have just started Wrath deck 4 and we are confused by this new barrier. The exact wording is:
"If undefeated, discard a number of cards from your deck equal to your hand size; otherwise, discard a number of cards from your deck equal to half your hand size, rounded down."
At first I was confused because I thought that both sides of the semi colon applied to it being undefeated. That would be silly, so I assume that the second half applies to it being anything other than undefeated. My friend says that if he evades the barrier he gets to ignore all powers on the card.
You don't need to assume the second part applies to anything other than undefeated -- the card explicitly tells you that by leading it with "otherwise." That covers all cases that are not "undefeated."
As for if it applies when evading, that's trickier and depends on how you read that sentence. I would personally say that evading does not trigger the power however and you get away scot-free.
Apply Any Evasion Effects. You may use a power or card that lets you evade the card you're encountering. If any powers on the card you're encountering relate to evading the card, they take effect at this time. If you evade the card, do not activate any other powers on it. Shuffle it back into the deck; it is neither defeated nor undefeated, and the encounter is over.
The reason I say this is because the power does not explicitly relate to evading the card, rather it relates to not being undefeated. So, we would not activate it at the time it tells us to activate powers related to evading (at that point in time, it hasn't been declared defeated or undefeated yet). Then we're told to not activate any powers on it, and then we're told it is neither defeated nor undefeated. That last bit is where the power would normally kick in, however we're told to not activate it before that point, so we don't. Evasion therefore lets you bypass that card without any ill effects.
(the alternative reading is that the power does relate to evading, since evaded is not undefeated, however that is less supported by the rulebook imo)
Thank you Steve and skizzerz. That part of the rule book is what I was looking for. That is exactly what my friend is saying. Ignore the rest of the card. I would compare it to a card like the monster Gargoyle, which says: "If you evade the Gargoyle, put it on top of its location deck." Here it specifically mentions evading, but the Mythic Glyph does not. Also there's the point that most monsters' powers that list If defeated / If undefeated do so in different paragraphs, and in the Mythic Glyph it's in the same sentence. Hence the confusion.
This one is tricky.
The way I see it, designer can have 3 intentions, and should word the card accordingly.
1) If the intent is to have you discard cards BEFORE any check to defeat, including if you evade, they should write something like "Before the encounter, discard XX" and then "if undefeated, discard (another) YY"
2) If the intent is to have you discard cards AFTER any check to defeat, but not when you evade, they should write something like "If undefeated discard XX+YY; otherwise discard XX"
3) If the intent is to have you discard cards AFTER any check to defeat, but also when you evade, they should write something like "is you evade discard XX" and then "If undefeated discard XX+YY; otherwise discard XX"
... but that's just me.
Anyway following that logic, I would say Mythic Glyph doesn't make you discard when evaded.
Hawk? Vic?
This one is tricky.
The way I see it, designer can have 3 intentions, and should word the card accordingly.
1) If the intent is to have you discard cards BEFORE any check to defeat, including if you evade, they should write something like "Before the encounter, discard XX" and then "if undefeated, discard (another) YY"
2) If the intent is to have you discard cards AFTER any check to defeat, but not when you evade, they should write something like "If undefeated discard XX+YY; otherwise discard XX"
3) If the intent is to have you discard cards AFTER any check to defeat, but also when you evade, they should write something like "is you evade discard XX" and then "If undefeated discard XX+YY; otherwise discard XX"
... but that's just me.
Anyway following that logic, I would say Mythic Glyph doesn't make you discard when evaded.
Hawk? Vic?
"Before the encounter" is a step that does not exist and should never appear on cards. That would imply a power kicks in before you even flip the card over, which rather defies the laws of physics and time.
We already have something for doing stuff before the check, it's called Before You Act. If you want that to apply to evasion as well, say so: "Before you act, or if you evade this card, ..."
(edit: there's also "When You Encounter" which happens before evasion, so probably use that instead -- I'm guessing that's the step you meant when you said "before the encounter" in your post, just got wires crossed with terminology)
Same with afterwards, there's an After You Act. An "If undefeated" power happens even after that, during the resolve the encounter step. Either way, an evasion clause can be grafted onto them to apply.
Since no such clause was grafted on here, and per the reasons in my above post, it doesn't apply in this case.
Chief Technical Officer
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Apply Any Evasion Effects. You may use a power or card that lets you evade the card you're encountering. If any powers on the card you're encountering relate to evading the card, they take effect at this time. If you evade the card, do not activate any other powers on it. Shuffle it back into the deck; it is neither defeated nor undefeated, and the encounter is over.The reason I say this is because the power does not explicitly relate to evading the card, rather it relates to not being undefeated. So, we would not activate it at the time it tells us to activate powers related to evading (at that point in time, it hasn't been declared defeated or undefeated yet). Then we're told to not activate any powers on it, and then we're told it is neither defeated nor undefeated. That last bit is where the power would normally kick in, however we're told to not activate it before that point, so we don't. Evasion therefore lets you bypass that card without...
Right. Assuming that you're evading it by way of a power going off during the "Apply Any Evasion Effects" step, the only powers on the card you're evading that apply are things that happened when you encountered the card (in the previous step) and things that happen if you evade. Don't try to follow the rabbit into the hole of "things that would have happened in the rest of the encounter but aren't happening because I evaded."
Gotcha. So my friend was right. (he will be happy to hear that)