Now I'm actually not sure if this thread is looking for self-affirmation or something else entirely. So a little backstory I suppose.
My friend is running Curse of the Crimson Throne as the DM. Its his second game running (first being Rise of the Runelords) and we have gotten to the 5th book. Now, I have DMed a few times in my day and have read my share of content from the old days to now, so maybe I think I know too much but I feel like the DM is effectively adding stuff just to spite me. I am running a Wishcrafting Ifrit Sorcerer with a focus on Enchantments, Illusions, Transmutations and Evocations (mainly Fire, some Sonic, some Electricity, but no Cold).
Continued in spoilers below.
(Curse of the Crimson Throne Book 5)
We have recently got to Scarwall and upon happening the bridge where Lashton comes out to meet you the Sorcerer (myself) tries to parlay with him and get a way into Scarwall without needless destruction (he's LE, with the party not knowing due to a converted Plague Mask from Book 2). Unfortunately the parlay (from the +40~ diplomancer) fails and Lashton decides to start combat. Alright. Well time to scrap, no free pass for us here, place seems unwelcoming even to those who try to talk.
I crush initiative and proceed to go first, performing a quick knowledge check on them to find they are Dread Skeletons. Pretty straightforward so I throw up a Wall of Fire (Double damage to undead) and wait for them to approach us on the bottlenecked bridge or die slowly to fire radiance. At this point the DM claims they take no damage from the fire and just march on through. Fine. Thats ok, maybe the template is different or they have Resist cast on them (as the Red Mantis Assassins did in the previous book). We win the fight and force Lashton to flee with him telling us to have fun in Scarwall while he prepares reinforcements for us.
Upon getting to the gate of Scarwall, we do some scouting and I send my Imp familiar to do some work above and see what the upper floors look like, peer through the windows and so on. I see he gets frustrated at this, as he usually is when I use my familiar to scout, check for traps, read runes, draw my items for me, assist me in checks, do an Intimidate on a mook here or there and such. Having the knowledge of the upper floors and the layout is well worth the extra minute or two of buffs expiring a little.
Eventually a group of 12~ Gargoyles jump my Familiar and all manage to charge attack and full round my poor partner before it can be withdrawn via spell. Though this gets me thinking, in my years of tabletops, I have never seen Gargoyles with Pounce. So my familiar dies and we head into Scarwall. Fine, maybe they're new monsters. The amount of information I gained from this was minimal at best, but we now know that flying is a bad bad idea and that when we do encounter these, they come in droves, have low attack rolls, pounce, gang up and have multiple arms. Also to keep an eye out for ambushes from stuff like this. I'm sort of happy with the results but still a little peeved as now we have no forward scout.
Once we're in Scarwall we keep encountering Skeletons (of the Dread variety, some being minotaurs) and some other creatures, all which happen to be immune to Fire, can't be hit with Mind-Affecting effects, and can't be hit with Fortitude saves so my Transmutations are worthless (Undead traits YUCK!). Since 4 of my 4 schools are of minimal use and at this point I'm resorting to casting Haste, Tactical Acumen and then describing combats (for dramatic purpose) and readying actions to break potential casts that may come out with Dispels and such.
At this point I'm still here, still playing along and enjoying the sights and sounds of the place and figuring out the traps and layouts and the whole mystery, using the song as a guide.
We manage to kill the Good Armored Paladin Skeleton Spirit thing (Mandravus I believe?) and the Cinder Ghouls and we stopped for the night (out of game).
I know Rule 0 is a thing and if those Skeletons are Fire Immune, they're Fire Immune, but every time we do checks on the Skeletons he says they're standard Dread Skeletons, have DR/Bludgeoning, Undead Traits, Aura of Unnaturalness, Cold Immunity... but always forgets to say Fire Immunity.
Now I don't want to know too much because the dungeon seems very Castlevania-esque (which I love), but am I being targeted out? Is some of this even by the book (which he says it is)? I don't mind a challenge, but I hate when my player agency is being stomped on. I chose Wall of Fire because it was on my bloodline list (and I wanted my Wishcrafting to still have similar spell choices) and I can see through it without penalty. I chose an Imp instead of my Bloodline powers so I can scout effectively and not have an ally die. It feels like when I get more ranks of Diplomacy, enemies just become unconvincable, even to become neutral or unfriendly. Every time I get more ranks of Bluff, enemies seem to have insane Sense Motive skills out of nowhere. This happened before with my Rogue in Rise who has a near 85~ Stealth score, HIPS, Hellcat Stealth, Dampen Presence, and things still saw him. For every point I did something, something else hit back. So what's the point of putting any points into any skills ever? Why bother specializing when the monsters have more HP to make up for the Empower Metamagic you just took?
Normally he asks me for a rundown after each session to help him figure out what works and what doesn't work, so I know he's trying, but how do I put it in a way where it doesn't completely demoralize him or cause a rift? We've (sortof) lost 1 friend due to tabletops (not his fault, just a really nasty player/friend with anger issues), so I want to be delicate but at the same time explain player agency. He also knows that I know most of the bestiaries, and while I don't want to search things up and finger point like a jerk (and, well, cheat effectively), how do I bring up the issue? I know Rule 0 and use it often for dramatic effect or to progress things, maybe even to make a special spell or Ex ability, but I've never used it to single out someone's playstyle and lock them into Haste-Bot mode for entire sessions (and include it in the Knowledge checks or the descriptions of the attacks, monsters, etc).
My gut says to just tell him, but I know I'm a little hasty.
Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance.
PS: I know this may be better in the CotCT subforum, but I know its general enough to maybe be in Advice. Wasn't sure where to put it.
I suggest a test before talking to him. The next time your character rests, memorize lightning or acidic spells. Cast them at the standard dread skeletons.
If they take damage normally, then maybe he just added a special ability, or maybe they are all just coated in an oil of fire resistance 30.
If they don't take damage, or the second set doesn't take damage, then I think that pretty well confirms that the DM is targeting you.
Many DMs struggle with high level characters, and with high level casters in particular. It's like you get to cast prying eyes once, and then everywhere else you scout, whether it be castle, dungeon, tavern, or latrine, has been mind blanked, sequestered, and is inside a mage's excellent enclosure.
It is too bad the DM can't see this for the advantage that it is. Rather than having to draw out the structure room by room, slowing the game down piecemeal, he can hand out an unlabeled map, or take a 5-10 break and draw out the whole thing. Of course, "While your imp saw these guards here, they were moving and may very well be in other places by the time you get there."
Let's assume you confirm that he's being punitive. The next time you make a knowledge check and he gives you the standard dread skeleton line, take a breath and ask, kindly, "Hey, can you clarify something for me? We've encountered these things several times and each time I check you say they're standard, but their fire resistance isn't standard. I'm checking for rings of fire resistance, or the residue of some magic oil they've been coated in, or the after-image of a spell's aura showing that they've been made immune to magic."
See what he says. Maybe your character has an arch-rival who's behind the skeletons, who knows your tactics and has prepared his minions against you. Give him that out.
I don't think it's that the monsters have a high fort save, it's that undead traits make undead immune to fort saves that can't also target objects (like Disintegrate). I also don't think he's saying he thinks that's fudging. The point is that if his character is already going to be sucking thanks to fort save immunity and mindlessness in general, it's going really far to also give them ad hoc fire immunity.
Also, imps have at-will invisibility, and those gargoyles have got jack in the way of special senses and perception (well, spot/listen) checks. So if you're saying normal familiars are too weak and fragile to scout...yeah, that's why he got the imp. It's in the OP. And neither Lashton, nor his skelebros, have any fire resist or immunity per the book, that's got to be fudged. On the other hand, why would he even bother fudging it? Those skeletons are regular CR 1/3 trash. Did he also beef them up to be a much larger threat to the party?
I dunno. This guy sounds like a Gygaxian nightmare. Yes, definitely talk to him, but yes, go into this conversation knowing that he is either definitely targeting you, or just indiscriminately cranking up the difficulty for its own sake (you gave lots of evidence of him screwing with you, but he might be screwing with everyone for all I know)
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FYI...familiars are too weak and vulnerable for scouting.
Now, this is just plain wrong. Most familiars have a pretty great stealth modifier, so the whole point is to not be seen. And an Imp is better than most because it has at will invisibility, DR, fire and poison immunity, Resist Acid and Cold 10, and a pretty decent fly speed, with perfect maneuverability. Imps make great scouts, and should only be foiled by creatures with true seeing, scent, blindsight, or the like. And even then should have a fair chance of retreating if noticed.
And if the low HP makes you weary, you can also cast Callback on them. It's low enough level that you can just keep scrolls of it, instead of using one of your spells known slots. There's no reason that he shouldn't feel like he can send his Imp to scout, other than the sense that the GM will just hand wave things to prevent it.
Thanks for all the responses so far. Because I know what its like to have something spoiled for you, I'm going to be a little vague with the responses (but I will provide the information asked for).
@Rub-Eta: The immunities come from the creature type, which at least 99% of the creatures have. As Jaunt said, its just the traits. I'm willing to accept that a chunk of my spell list isn't viable (I knew the risks when I chose the spells), thats the price of building a character with no true optimization. But to have another entire schtick taken away would be very frustrating if I wasn't who I was.
@KenderKin: I definitely agree with you that there needs to be trust. I am going to approach him, though this thread is more about whether or not I need to go at it with a certain mindset. As it currently stood I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but if I find there is a malicious intent, I'm not going to idly stand by. Thats why I created this thread in a way, to see how other people handled it and to come up with other solutions for myself. Having a justifiable reason changes the dynamic of the dialogue.
@MyKull: I unfortunately can't memorize as I am a Sorcerer, but with Dragon's Breath, Shadow Evocation / Conjuration, I think I can try. We do have some character backgrounds which may or may not affect things, and what you say very well could be the case, which is why I am not too upset. Though with the way the area and the book is, it is extremely unlikely as it is a hidden, remote place, untouched for hundreds and hundreds of years. I will be very liberal with Dispel Magic though to see what happens.
@Jaunt: The encounter with L was a joke in the end. Maybe he didn't want me to end it immediately with a massive Wall of Fire (he's always been mad that I run with 18 Initiative, which isn't even that high in all reality... I could have easily pumped it by another +8 points, and more if I took VMC Divination Wizard for the Familiar), but thats what I'm built for, to deal with trash mobs and crowd control before they can react. Taking that away basically made all my choices moot. I don't really see him screwing with other people deliberately. My choices always seem to be 'cheese' but my other friend who constructed a Ghost Touch Amulet of Mighty Fists was given the OK, so was a Bull Rush Shield lockdown Ranger (which mechanically doesn't work with AoO rules, but is being handwaved). It always seems as if we're butting heads the most for some reason, and other people notice it as well.
Thanks for the opinions and information though, I don't want it to feel like I am building a case. My biggest concern is possibly causing some sort of divide if I approach without having enough information, or possibly overreacting.
I'm honestly not sure how I'd go about the conversation. I mean, you could be all "those skeletons don't have fire resist, and the gargoyles don't have blindsight" and he could be like "yes they do" and you can't be like "nuh uh, an internet guy said they don't". Plus he doesn't have to be upfront with you at all. He could say that he gave the skeletons fire immunity "because of story reasons" and then you're shut down. If you make a fuss, he makes you look like an overreacting drama queen. If you don't, he can brush you off under the guise of GM secrecy.
The fact of the matter is that if he's a jerk, he can marginalize you and nobody else will know or care.
Maybe the best thing that you can do is express frustration at the fact that your actions seem to be consistently futile, and the other PCs are allowed to be effective, and then ask him what you can do differently. There's a chance he'll give you a real answer. That'd be awesome. He might also give you BS answers like "oh, you're just not suited to the module" or "have a crossbow so that you can always do something". In that case, do whatever he says and see if the Evil Eye averts its gaze, or ask him to retcon your character to be something more suitable/less "cheesy". If all of a sudden the monsters lose their spontaneous immunity, you've found your issue.
But if you figure out he just has it out for you, I'd be really tempted to just retire. There's no way you can win against a hostile GM without staging a mutiny, and it sounds like the other players are perfectly happy.
I'm not sure how experienced your GM is, but sometimes people focus on something and don't notice what you gave up in order to get that.
I'm level 3 Wizard, and my DM asked me "do you have 7 Initiative?" he was surprised it was that high (which could be more). But I had to took Imp Ini and Additional Traits to get it to +7.
I'm not sure exactly how your character is built, but if you can focus on buffing do that.
Maybe he feels like your character has many combat ending options and he's annoyed at that, so instead of using them, start buffing everyone.
Prot from Evil, Haste, Heroism, whatever you want. If suddenly every enemy has a Dispel Magic wand, then you know he's after you.
If you wanna be more dramatic just suicide your guy/retire him and make a character really similar to another on the party.
If he tries to screw you, he'll be screwing somebody else, and at least you'll have force in numbers.
Part of the problem may be the GM just can't handle higher level PC option very well. Maybe he's still mired in earlier levels worth of adventuring when flight is a lot harder to come by and PCs have a harder time coming at a problem from varying directions.
I'm a bit curious that you're comparing your level of optimization with another character who got a ghost touch amulet of mighty fists (something that's pretty normal and a good solution for a monk, for example, to use when expecting to fight incorporeal opponents like a fair number of undead). That's not a particularly strong optimization on his part compared to your +18 initiative and spell load designed to take out crowds. You may be able to optimize for that even more, but it's already a very strong bid already against most crowd-control situations you'll encounter in a campaign.
It's also possible he's afflicted with a case of "my precious encounters" syndrome and thinks most encounters have to be carefully balanced, nail-biting challenges for everyone at the table or they're too weak. The encounter at the causeway isn't supposed to be against the party's A-game - it's already lower than the expected party level when they encounter it and it's packed with mooks that would have been easily destroyed by a turning cleric in D&D 3.5. Well, Paizo doesn't design their APs that way - they include encounters that are supposed to be relatively easy so they don't take as long and give the players an impression of how powerful their PCs have become. It might help to discuss some of that - though, of course, it will reveal that you're seeking information on stuff behind the GM's screen. He may react poorly to that.
Ditto the superiority of the Imp! I play a version of the Eberron Changeling as a wizard. Mutable familiar is something to keep me cozy at nigh, cook breakfast scout without drawing attention, find a great campsite and play cards with each night. The imp is quite good at nigh any role and tucks me in at night!
Now, on to you core problem: nobody cares. He has the other players lulled in to being slugs from what you've written. In one case I lived, the dm played everyone against each other, even to the point of risking divorce. I count my leaving as taking my exit to Lourdes! Unless this is the only game in town, punt! Start your own game. Do not let this toxic person hurt your soul. He is not worth it.
@Liegance: +85 Stealth is an 18th level character after finishing an entire AP to be fair. When I build someone I do want them to be good at what they do, but its definitely not to the exclusion of other aspects. This was before Unchained, I took sub-par options like Major Magic, Minor Magic, Familiar and Dispelling Attack to get a magical feeling... even wasting a feat on an Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Though its hard to judge just by what I say the level of optimization. The dungeon we are in is known for its meat-grinder tendencies and we've almost wiped in there twice (we have no Cleric as ours left after Book 2 of the AP). Our healing is a single wand of Cure Light Wounds and a single wand of Lesser Restoration. We have no way to deal with Ability Drain (outside of the outsider the Wizard bound, and even then its only a few times per day), and we most likely can't rest in this place (its very evil). We have to do it in one shot, which seems nearly impossible as he is trying to target down the Akhana as it has Cure Serious Wounds at Will (currently has 3 of 11 negative levels that we can't fix). We do want to feel the rush, but at the same time, no one wants it to feel cheap (I'm the only one with real experience OOC with Undead, so I know various Soul Destroying and Level Draining effects are coming, Wails of the Banshee and so on, with no way out as we don't have Death Ward). And no one wants a character to be forever demolished (with True Resurrection even being unable to revive them) after spending 8 months playing them. Though you're right, we do want a challenge (and we are 25% through... hopefully). There is a difference between a fair difficulty and a cheap or artificial difficulty.
@GM Rednal: Yeah I'm just going to explain it to him as easily as possible. Its daunting as a new GM to improvise when a player does something you aren't ready for, but this is why I play RPGs, for the fact that its not a fixed script, that when you impact the world you can see the cracks and how you change it.
@Bill Dunn: Well the Initiative is mainly due to High Dexterity (for Ray Touches), from being an Ifrit and using Heightened Awareness (for the Perception, Knowledge and such). The example should have been fleshed out though. It apparently wasn't a metagame decision for him to create an Amulet (before in game knowing of Scarwall), but it is for me to have Wall of Fire. Its just a funny dichotomy. If you haven't read the Wishcrafter, its pretty bad for optimization, one of the worst archetypes I think. It just so happens I have Wall of Fire and Fireball (pretty standard Ifrit Fire Sorcerer spells). Its possible that what you say is true regarding MPE, when I talk to him I'll hopefully get the answer.
@Letric: Yeah the idea of Opportunity Cost isn't really familiar. Though I wouldn't suicide a character for that though, it seems really unfair to everyone who's invested to the story at the table.
@Scott: I suppose it is a mark of pride in a way.
@Bwang: I don't think its that bad, we are going to discuss it. We're all friends in this group and I'm also the go between for people's anonymous issues with the game (the vast majority do get fixed and worked on). I don't think its entirely malicious, I think it is a mix between trying to balance encounters and trying to add a sense of difficulty, and I just happen to be caught in the middle as I'm the most experienced.
Again thank you all for the replies.
It helps to hear other people's opinions on the subject (even if the whole story isn't there) :)
So its not too OT GM Rednal.
Honestly it was just for flavor reasons. Rogue with a shadow in their bloodline and a family curse (can't have a real connection with the normal world and who can't be noticed for good or bad).
HiPS was just too much fun and worked very well with the idea.
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Your description of your character makes it sounds like he is highly optimized full caster. The other characters that you are describing sound like they have niche abilities, but are not particularly game-breaking in their build/execution. And +18 to init is really high: don't kid yourself by saying "it could be higher".
It does sound like the GM is trying to adjust things to make them more challenging for the party - and he may (as already mentioned) be trying to allow the other players in the party to have their own moments to shine. That's his job as a GM: to make it challenging enough to be fun for everybody. Yes, it sounds like he is clearly struggling with how to deal with your character (or maybe more accurately you, as a player) breaking all of the encounters - and he obviously isn't doing a great job with doing that in a logical way.
I would definitely suggest that you talk to your friend and try to work this out with him, but I think you need to own some responsibility for this situation. By optimizing your sorcerer the way that you have, and by using your player knowledge and experience (would your sorcerer really risk his familiar to have him scout a dangerous location, or is that a player strategy? You seem to be playing your sorcerer like a high-INT strategist wizard - how smart is he?) you've put a crazy amount of pressure on a novice GM: you aren't leaving him a lot of options.
I know Rule 0 is a thing and if those Skeletons are Fire Immune, they're Fire Immune, but every time we do checks on the Skeletons he says they're standard Dread Skeletons, have DR/Bludgeoning, Undead Traits, Aura of Unnaturalness, Cold Immunity... but always forgets to say Fire Immunity.
This could theoretically be valid within the rules if, for example, someone was going around casting Resist Energy spells on them shortly before you arrived. That would be outside the scope of a Knowledge check.
@Matthew: Yeah thats true. I'll just rely on Air Geyser and Shout for now until this gets discussed.
@Argus: Not really no. The Initiative comes from +5 (20 Dexterity = 16 Base + 4 Enhancement) + 4 Ifrit Racial + 4 from a +1 Dueling Falchion (from Heirloom Weapon). With buffs from Heightened Awareness it jumps up though. I didn't take Improved Initiative and I lost the Familiar's when it hit Improved Familiar. The items I have consist of the following: +4 Cloak [Shoulder] (Shoanti Gift, for 4 Books I've been using a +1), a +4 Dex Belt [Belt], +4 Headband [Headband], Feather Step Slippers [Feet] and a converted Plague Mask [Eyes]. Item independent class and all, but thats hardly optimizing (though again, you aren't getting the full description so I hope I'm not coming off defensive or aggressive here). He didn't have a problem with the Wizard binding an Arkhana though. In character though, yes he would gladly sacrifice his Familiar, that was part of the contract (LE) which is why I'm not torn up really. He has ranks in Profession (Soldier) and (Noble) to reflect his background growing up in the City of Brass as a slave (with the war Efreeti), and does have ranks in most Knowledge Checks (favored class, +2 Intelligence modifier), so he is fairly well versed. Though I do concede maybe it is a little too strong (for that group) but it is hard to judge when you aren't looking outward.
@Rashagar: Yeah certainly.
I'm going over it tonight with him, though first I have to deal with a couple of concerns one of the other players has (not enough gruesome descriptions of the horror dungeon, DMPCs being forgotten about in autofollow mode, etc); but I'll talk to him regarding this after I sort out that.
I'll let you all know how it turns out.
Really good stuff here and thanks for all the effort!
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Just as an update for those who care and provided me some very good advice.
We discussed the topic at hand and we both came to an understanding of the situation despite everything.
Spoiler for Book 5 - Mechanics
He wanted to make Scarwall feel more alive and sentient (which it is according to the lore) and make it a villain in its own right, so each of the Spirit Anchors is tied to a global buff that the monsters are receiving (with each Anchor hurting a party member, ie: For the Conjuration Wizard, the Unnatural Auras cause Dimensional Anchor). He realized how crippling full on Immunity was after the first exploration and is going to drop it down to Resistance for me (not taking into account the combination of the Undead traits as well). Each Anchor we take out will make things easier and easier, like dismantling a big puzzle piece by piece.
So I suppose I did overreact a little, though he is going to read up on Auras (such as Abjuration) to help with the breadcrumbs in future.
As for the Gargoyles, he just apologized and told me he fudged it; which takes a huge person in my books. I didn't ask the reason but it really doesn't matter.
Overall, thank you all for the advice and the learning experience for the both of us, and happy gaming to you all.
Spoiler Free: It went well.
As for the *omitted from spoiler section*, he just apologized and told me he fudged it; which takes a huge person in my books. I didn't ask the reason but it really doesn't matter. .
Out of all the things he was inappropriately doing to you, this one is the most egregious in my opinion. So fervently swatting down your scout familiar screams "petulant child reaction" to me. I don't think I would stay at a table with that GM after that admission, despite the fact that it was an apology. It is bad form, bad judgment, and would have shattered any trust I could maintain in his game leadership.
You sir are a more forgiving man than I.
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Sounds like you're both patient and understanding people. That's the kind of communication that keeps games alive, happy, and running for a long time.
Very pleasant thread. :)
In regards to the original post, I have to say that it totally reminds me of the bad old days of playing D&D, when the GM would completely, unfairly negate viable fair player tactics and win by fiat. It's what so attracted me to Pathfinder Society -- there, the GMs must run the modules exactly by the rules, nothing made up, or they get booted right out.
So if I have a good tactic or ability in Pathfinder Society, it just gets to work, and that's how the module goes, whether the GM likes it or not. It's very player-friendly. And as a GM in the organization, I like it too, because it fosters very honest players who fairly manage their sheets and can "prove" or document all their weird powers. It has been a great way to learn the rules and play by the rules.
Having said all that, I cannot figure out the issue with 85 stealth, either. Regarding the original poster's spoiler'd comment:
And I would argue that is really gunning to max the ability. If you were at level 18 and had another 20 on top of that, as a player or GM I would raise an eyebrow and be like, "Uh, that's way out of line for the level." I mean, maybe you can do it, but it's not all "meh I didn't optimize for it" as the original poster portrayed it. And it certainly breaks the modules you'd be going through, as the authors of those modules would have written for numbers that were more sane.
So as a GM (and maybe even as a player, depending upon how outrageous the numbers are), I can totally see why the GM would behave this way. If 85 is your "blah that's not even trying hard" number, or your "don't criticize, because I took a bunch of sub-optimal feats to make up for it" number, then I'd hate to see your "OK let's max this out and try hard" number. Like, that's not even fun at a certain point, even as a fellow player.
So, the GM sounds like he blew it with a lot of "win by fiat" but it also sounds like the original poster pushes his GMs right into that position with his casually-built-but-totally-overpowering characters.
(I doubt that you could get an 85 stealth in Pathfinder Society. They hold not only the GM to the rules of the book, but the players too. I just don't think there is a provable, by-the-book way to hit 85 at level 18. Of course, if the GM is letting the player make up stuff like shadow bloodlines, then I guess the GM deserves what he/she gets.)
Well, PFS only goes up to, like, Level 12 normally. So I'm pretty sure there is exactly no way to get 85 Stealth at Level 18 in PFS. XD
PFS goes to level 18 at least. We have players in our area with tons of 18s. I'm getting into "Eyes of the Ten" to start my own journey to level 18.
+6 from Skill Focus and +15 from Greater Shadow Armor Enchant off the top of my head added to +65 is +86, though the shadow enchant might not stack with the cloak of elvenkind
Good job with the shadow enchant, but yeah that doesn't stack with the cloak. Anyway, in PFS things like "you have a shadow for your dad, so here's extra stealth" won't count. In any case, since I was talking about it in context of how you couldn't get such a number in PFS, the PFS limitations would still rein in the overall number.
Granted, outside of PFS, this player certainly does have the 85 stealth, but again, some of those item enhancements don't stack so he needs other ways to have done it, and some are clearly custom, which means the GM welcomed the problem, or at least contributed to it. And I would suggest that looking at that historical issue in their games, one may extrapolate some further conclusions about the current issues.
You know? Like, if the GM welcomes a bunch of custom bonuses, and doesn't realize that he's helping the player to build a monster PC who cannot fail, well, then the GM has a game where the PC cannot fail. That's the deal, and he's gotta deal with that now. I am not surprised to find him reacting badly and doing things by fiat. That's the "low hanging fruit" as far as coping mechanisms are concerned.
My coping mechanism would be to not foster that in the first place (which is why I brought up PFS, since I suspect that it'd be impossible or at least even more obviously hyper-optimized for that goal, which would definitely start to reek of cheesiness in that organization). But hindsight is 20/20 as usual. Maybe the GM just couldn't foresee the player being this good at optimization, and now he's on his heels reeling backward, trying to cope with overpowered PCs.
@Zedth: Honestly I don't think it was petulant. I think it was more peeved that I was breaking action economy with Intimidate, Wands, Command Items and stuff. I'll probably ask at some point. Regardless, I don't have to pay for another anywho.
Breakdown for the curious ones.
Stealth after Rise of the Runelords
Reliss De Raken
+18 Ranks
+3 Trained
+4 Dexterity
+3 Enhancement to Dexterity
+2 Inherent
+2 Level Ups (4, 8, 12, 16)
+6 Skill Focus (Focused Study)
+4 Stealthy
+15 Greater Shadows
+1 Luckstone
+4 Favored Terrain (Urban, Underground)
+2 Tool (When able to apply paints)
+2 Morale (Heroism was almost always up due to UMD)
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~+64 without Ring of Invisibility
Would have 3 Higher if I didn't grab Improved Familiar for a Mephit.
I probably should have clarified, but there you have it.
At the time there was also no Wildblooded Ruling for Eldritch Heritage, so there was another +9 from Umbral's Cloak of Shadows. I had a PFS VC ad hoc rule it, and we stayed with it until the official FAQ.
@Outshyn: He was shadow blooded (literally Eldritch Heritage for the Bloodline and the Shadow HiPS :P), having to escape to the unforgiving Plane of Shadow at a young age, forever being tainted when he came back out.
Reading it, yeah that was pretty bad in hindsight.
Though wasn't too effective outside of that. Applied debuffs and Dispels fairly well using Sneak Attack and wands.
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Off the top of my head, since you aren't getting killed, it sounds like he might be trying to spread the spotlight to other characters.
And I will applaud a GM for modifying the game to challenge players in prep, Modifying on the fly is a bit of dirty pool.
All in all not sure what's going on, so I can't make the call.
In regards to some of the posts in there you guys are describing the problem of a DM thinking it is the nature of the game to have it be DM vs players. Which, as we all should know, is simply not the case. Glad to see the OP and his DM have come to an understanding.
You should check if he's really annoyed with your familiar.
You do have an Improved Familiar on a class that is already strong.
I mean, you could just be an Arcane caster without feats and still be super useful and break the game.
What I'm going at is that your familiar is not only scouting, but it's also giving you extra actions, which is the most important resource ever in a game.
Instead of casting Mage armor or Prot from Evil, you have your familiar doing it for you.
Familiar scouting on its own it's expected at any level. Difference is Imp has a lot resources to do this. Also you've chosen an Imp, which is LE, why would it be following you?
If I were the DM I'd put some ingame discrepancy unless you're too LE.