In terms of survivability the Arcane Bloodrager is hard to beat - though an Invulnerable Rager would give them a run for their money. Both come with built-in ways to avoid damage (DR/- or Blur/Displacement/Mirror Image) that don't rely on AC. Both equally have drawbacks - the Invulnerable Rager is more vulnerable to single big hits, the Arcane Bloodrager to foes who can beat illusions. However as they start with lots of defences you can focus most of your other resources on offense.
I don't know about "Best", if that exists. Both can be very hard to kill and a major threat, which is better relies on specifics of the situation.
I would rate the Barbarian as having a slight advantage in DPR, and the Bloodrager (depending on bloodline) having slightly better survivability.
If you want your Bloodrager to be able to cast spells, you need a reasonable Charisma. On a Barbarian, many would consider that a dump stat. This is the biggest single difference in build -- you want everything that a Barbarian has and need one more moderate attribute score.
Arcane bloodrager with spell eater, ablative barrier and an adamant breastplate is durn hard to drop, power attack, greater magic weapon etc... Damage is plenty high.
CaGM invulnerable pouncing barb is still just as good as ever. Unchained Barb does tank pretty good in that you have refreshing temp HP and better DR boosts and AC boosts.
So you actually have three options. Barb, UBarb and bloodrager.
I think you should try Unchained Barb. It comes with the added fun that there's the possibility of making an AC-focused Barb now.
Well with a Barb you don't just ignore your AC. You still get the mithral Breastplate, AoNA, Ring of protect, etc... because of beast totem your AC is higher than similar equipped characters. Plus you'll have good DR.
The other option is to take a level of unbreakable fighter/unarmed fighter and go for stalwart and improved stalwart and fighting defensively for a +8 to your DR, this lets you have more DR if you are wanting to ignore AC.
Spell eater is an archetype for bloodrager, gets scaling fasthealing instead of dr, with ablative barrier you are converting some dmg to nonlethal, which basicly lets you double dip your fasthealing.
The best one is the one that has an improved familiar that can umd a scroll that cast Shield Other. The familiar also needs regeneration. This way, your DR is always a minimum of 50% the damage. If you throw on DR on top of that, you can turn 50 points of damage off one attack into 15 damage if you have DR 10. If you take 90 damage off of 3 attacks, it could be only 15 damage that you take.
Well, the hard truth of the matter is that the bloodrager is simply more powerful than the barbarian. Most hybrid classes are superior to the core and base classes, at least as a general rule of thumb.
That being said, while barbarians will get just a bit more health than a bloodrager, a bloodrager has more class abilities to work with and their spellcasting easily makes them better at tanking. A simple shield spell already puts your AC 4 higher, and that's just a single 1st level spell.
I don't think a bloodrager is stronger than a Barb. Barb can(not necessarily all at the same time) fly while raging, pounce while raging, spell sunder, have mega saves, really good DR, great AC, super accuracy, etc. Especially now with the UBarb gaining temp HP whenever it rages. There's much Barbs can do that bloodragers can't.
Bloodragers can have all of those things and more, either by taking the archetype to simply pick up barbarian rage powers themselves or by emulating them with spells.
However, the clear disadvantage is that spells/day are limited while most rage powers are not. So if you plan on being in some sort of siege or fighting 12 different combats in a single day, barbarian is more reliable. Bloodrager has more explosive results, but can only be that powerful so many times a day.
While the abberant tumor build is the "best" at taking damage, even foregoing the tumor, abberant bloodrager still makes a great tank. You can use the extra long reach to control the battlefield in a few ways. My personal favorite is going with a shield slam build that gets to use its attacks of opportunity to bull rush enemies away from you and your teammates. Enemies that can't reach your friends can't hurt your friends.
People seem to be forgetting the Primalist archetype is a thing. Yea, it's banned in PFS, but it really does make a Bloodrager a Barbarian+ basically since they can get those key ragepowers anyway, even getting 2 at a time.
I think the Bloodrager may have a higher floor than the Barbarian, but I'm not sure how their ceilings compare.
Is it possible to get both Pounce and Superstition as a Bloodrager (either Arcane or Destined)?Bloodragers can have all of those things and more, either by taking the archetype to simply pick up barbarian rage powers themselves or by emulating them with spells.
However, the clear disadvantage is that spells/day are limited while most rage powers are not. So if you plan on being in some sort of siege or fighting 12 different combats in a single day, barbarian is more reliable. Bloodrager has more explosive results, but can only be that powerful so many times a day.
Yup. Primalist.
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Bloodragers can have all of those things and more, either by taking the archetype to simply pick up barbarian rage powers themselves or by emulating them with spells.
However, the clear disadvantage is that spells/day are limited while most rage powers are not. So if you plan on being in some sort of siege or fighting 12 different combats in a single day, barbarian is more reliable. Bloodrager has more explosive results, but can only be that powerful so many times a day.
Primalist Bloodrager is just straight up not going to be able to emulate the best Barbarian builds. Even if you trade out every single one of your bloodline powers you still only have 6 by level 12. Here's a list of Barbarian rage powers I like to have by level 10:
Superstition
Witch Hunter
Spell Sunder
Eater of Magic
3 Totem Powers (5 rage powers if Dragon Totem build)
3 Elemental Blood (Air) Powers (take this out if Dragon Totem)
Strength Surge
Internal Fortitude
This isn't even getting into utility powers like Savage Dirty Trick or Terrifying Howl that I want but even as a Barbarian who takes Power Attack+ERP for all of her feats I probably can't afford. Rage powers are really f!$+ing good, quite possibly the best modular ability in the game that isn't just straight spellcasting, and I think people really underestimate how much the Primalist's power is mitigated by not being able to feat into them.
Getting more rage powers is certainly powerful, but it's not as powerful as having another ~5 feats and spellcasting on top of it.
A rough aberrant tank build:
link
That doesn't mention the somewhat obvious ideas of using the long arm and enlarge person spells to pad your reach even more.
Getting more rage powers is certainly powerful, but it's not as powerful as having another ~5 feats and spellcasting on top of it.
If there was a feat better than the Eater of Magic line you would be right. There isn't.
We have a warpriest in our game who is a terrifying tank. Swift action cure spells are very effective when you add them atop an already high HP count.
Getting more rage powers is certainly powerful, but it's not as powerful as having another ~5 feats and spellcasting on top of it.If there was a feat better than the Eater of Magic line you would be right. There isn't.
And is there any reason you can't just pick up those rage powers with the primalist archetype?
Also, I find it hard to believe that there isn't a single feat more powerful than eater of magic.
Stronger? Debatable. But the two would certainly be a lot closer.
Yeah, Primalist is broken. There's a reason PFS just flat out said no to it. It's a no-go at my home tables as well.
Probably correct, but I haven't seen a barbarian in a high-level game in a long time, so I can't really attest to it.
But still, if you're restricting it to a "Human-only barbarian who must take the superstition rage power" to claim that the barbarian class as a whole has a higher ceiling, that's a pretty niche case.
Probably correct, but I haven't seen a barbarian in a high-level game in a long time, so I can't really attest to it.
But still, if you're restricting it to a "Human-only barbarian who must take the superstition rage power" to claim that the barbarian class as a whole has a higher ceiling, that's a pretty niche case.
Well it also includes half-elves and half-orcs. And for me at least, those three races make up like 75% of all characters I've seen played. If you limit it to just core races that number goes up to like 90%
I would rate the Barbarian as having a slight advantage in DPR, and the Bloodrager (depending on bloodline) having slightly better survivability.If you want your Bloodrager to be able to cast spells, you need a reasonable Charisma. On a Barbarian, many would consider that a dump stat. This is the biggest single difference in build -- you want everything that a Barbarian has and need one more moderate attribute score.
Which bloodline would you recommend? I figure Destined or Arcane would be great. Arcane gets the free Blur/Displacement, and Destined gets the AC.
For the spells, a 10-12 Cha should suffice to begin with. By the time he needs to cast level 3 spells, surely a +2 or +4 item could be had by then. I don't plan on using spells that require DCs, mainly for buffs and other spells that doesn't rely on saves.
Arcane Bloodline is extremely strong. The Blur/Resist Elements can easily make the difference between life and death.
Destined with Fate's Favored trait means you don't reduce your AC when you rage -- at 8th level it actually increases by raging.
If you have Familiar Folio, you can drop your 1st-level bloodline power and delay your bloodline spells one level in order to get a Familiar with a special power. If you like familiars, you will likely find this a worthwhile tradeoff.
Draconic bloodline gives you some elemental resistance and Natural Armor bonus. That can certainly help survivability.
I don't consider the other bloodlines very good defensively, but you still have spells that can improve your survivability: Shield, Mirror Image, False Life, etc.
Dwarven Invulnerable barbarian with steel-soul and superstition->eater of magic line are a thing to take in consideration too. :)
That makes de % up.
And don't forget this is compatible with urban barbarian if you want a more controlled rage that does not punish AC.
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I enjoy playing Half-Orc Primalist Spelleater Arcane Bloodrager.
I still pick up Superstitious and Witch Hunter...as well as Spell Eater and Come and Get me. I do not go down Beast totem cause it is a 3 rage power investment...pounce is good and all but it is too much an investment for the build IMO.
I use Fast healing and Displacement to tank with. I also supplement my defenses with spells on scrolls and UMD skill (Dangerously Curious Trait).
I go half orc for Fate's Favored+sacred Tattoo for +2 to all saves, Dark Vision, and Endurance (alternate racial trait). The endurance is a Pre-req for the Fast Healer Feat that adds Half Con to all magical healing sources you receive. Blood of Life (Su) is a Supernatural (magical) healing source....as is Spell Eating (Su). So I can get as much healing out of those abilities as possible. It is also pretty nice when using wands lol.
I'm a player who gets bored with mundane style classes...so I am attracted to classes that can cast. The bloodrager just attacts me...not saying 1 is better than another.
BOTH are strong and Viable tanks....play to your style.
I played a high-level bloodrager with the draconic bloodline and it was a blast (although this was before the changes to how feral combat training worked).
I remember a friend's Abyssal Bloodrager. While raging he had an AC of 12, but rarely actually got attacked, mainly because of a 20ft threatened area and doing extreme damage.
Please, that's weak. I once built a BBEG who was a barbarian (wild rager) with a raging AC of -1. That is not a typo. Negative 1.
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I do like the Bloodrager as a class for newbs. It's got a little bit of everything, but with a very focused purpose, and once you choose that Bloodline it's pretty functional.
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Tanking with Paizo classes isn't really doable, especially with the Barb/B-rager's typically low AC.The Invulnerable Rager comes pretty close for the Barb, and Arcane Bloodrager gives automatic Blur/Displacement when entering a bloodrage. If you're looking to take hits while still dishing out the damage, see if your GM will allow Dreamscarred Press's Warder class or possibly the Crusader from 3.5.
While you can't tank in the mmo style, I'd say the abberant's large reach combined with combat maneuvers comes close.
If you are worried about survivability it is hard to beat an aberrant tumor with the protector archetype.