So I wanted to build a PC who would fill in for the party rogue but who is actually a Sorc. Specifically a Vishkanya Envenomed Serpentine Sorcerer. I'm going to take the trap finding trait and something like highlander for in class stealth, I'm trying to specialize in poison use from my various abilities, with a high Dex and weapon finesse hitting should be ok.
Does anyone have any suggestions to bring this to fruition?
One multiclass level would add a pile of skills to your class list. I would also focus more on being versatile than contributing to melee combat.
I played a Seeker archetype Sage bloodline "rogue" that was a lot of fun.
IF you don't want to do the Seeker Archetype (say so you can do the Razmiran Priest Archetype), you can use a 2nd level spell Aram Zey's Focus to get the ability to disable magical traps. No need to pick up a trait.
Sage Sorcerers make better Skill Users then Rogues in the first place, so you are fine there, but poisons in general are kind of... weak. And more so on a class that as no real poison using abilities.
Invest in Intelligence, I'd suggest human for the skill point. I'd go draconic bloodline as it gets you Perception as class skill. Take the Criminal Trait to get Disable Device as class skill and Highlander to get Stealth as class skill. There you have it, you are a rogue in description but not as in the class Rogue.
The Trapfinder trait isn't something I find most GMs won't allow as it's specific to an AP.
I like the idea of the character (mmm poisons), but I think that even with all the buffs in the world, you'll have a tough time sticking it in melee combat. Just a personal warning.
I've been digging into poisons myself, lately. For a caster, the feats Poison Focus and Toxic Spell (honestly pretty darn weak, but conceptually cool), and the spell Pernicious Poison.
There are a lot of great Alchemist discoveries, but I don't know of a way to get them as a Sorcerer without sacrificing way too much. Veneficus Witch can get them, though. Not really what you are looking for, though...
Isn't spell casting really obvious normally? Wouldn't you need to be like pyschic andhave that spellcast hiding feat?
Isn't spell casting really obvious normally? Wouldn't you need to be like pyschic andhave that spellcast hiding feat?
Cunning Caster is more-or-less enough for social casting. I don't think the OP is looking to convince their party of being non-magical as much as filling the same party-role that a Rogue might.
Isn't spell casting really obvious normally? Wouldn't you need to be like pyschic andhave that spellcast hiding feat?Cunning Caster is more-or-less enough for social casting. I don't think the OP is looking to convince their party of being non-magical as much as filling the same party-role that a Rogue might.
to be fair it would be useful, since there are alot of stacking penalties for the non-psychic components to your bluff check
Well I specifically want to be a vishkanya serpentine Sorc. A snake theme Sorc. My function in the party is to do, rogue-ish things; sneak and scout, pick locks, disable traps, etc.
I'm not worried about my party (or anyone else) knowing that I'm a Sorc. I mostly want to use the snake fang bite power, envenomed power, and vishkanya racial poisons to poison people in battles, then function as the party rogue. My problem is stats right now, if I go 10,14,16,12,7,14 I end up 10,16,16,12,5,16 with four points left over, I don't really want to dump Str but I'm one point shy of a 14 int and I need at least 4 skill points.
My poison DC's scale with Con or Cha(depending) and level but I need ways to boost still, so that's an issue.
Basically I want, spell, feat, and item advice.
I'm trying to make him an assassin, not the class just his profession.
He's based loosely on the concept of Orochimaru
Well I specifically want to be a vishkanya serpentine Sorc. A snake theme Sorc. My function in the party is to do, rogue-ish things; sneak and scout, pick locks, disable traps, etc.
I'm not worried about my party (or anyone else) knowing that I'm a Sorc. I mostly want to use the snake fang bite power, envenomed power, and vishkanya racial poisons to poison people in battles, then function as the party rogue. My problem is stats right now, if I go 10,14,16,12,7,14 I end up 10,16,16,12,5,16 with four points left over, I don't really want to dump Str but I'm one point shy of a 14 int and I need at least 4 skill points.
My poison DC's scale with Con or Cha(depending) and level but I need ways to boost still, so that's an issue.
Basically I want, spell, feat, and item advice.
I'm trying to make him an assassin, not the class just his profession.
He's based loosely on the concept of Orochimaru
a 9 isnt dumping
The Sleep Venom racial feat is obvious. If you don't get it though, Rime Spell might be worth getting, to try and stack dex damage and the entangled dex penalty.
You probably want a Snakebite Dagger when you can get one, and you might want to get a rank in handle animal so you can use Snakebiter Arrows (actually light crossbow bolts, probably).
Getting perception as a class skill is probably more important than stealth. It is easier to boost stealth with magic than perception and you will use perception more than stealth. You may want to look into
VMC rouge for trap finding and other rouge class features. Use your favored class bonus for skills. Don’t dump WIS to 5. That is going to put your perception to -3. To scout you need to actually be able to notice things.
Hazrond I find it hard carrying things with a ten, terminology aside a 9 Str will be difficult.
AVR, ill definitely take sleep venom as soon as I can fit it in, do you know if their are feats or items that make DC's of these abilities higher?
Mysterious Stranger, what you are saying about perception makes sense, I do get a racial +2 though which offsets some of the Wisdom dump to that.
The problem is I need to dump something and wisdom makes the most sense to me, it affects my will save but I get a strong save in will, and it affects perception but I can use skill points to get around that. As long as I don't run into like an Allip or something I should be okay. What do you think? Am I being dumb?
Also I don't know anything about variant multiclassing, I don't have unchained so I don't know what I'd be giving up?
Hmm okay I will adjust my traits to give me perception and try to adjust my scores. Vishkanya already have a -2 to wis so it's going to be difficult.
Hmm having read up on it maybe I should just VMC Sorcerer.
Have you thought about going Arcane Trickster (possibly Ninja-Sorcerer, but other options are available)? Recent products have provided more options and made this better.
I didn't really want to lose spell progression, just wanted to start off sneaky/rogue like and then as I leveled let my spells outshine my other abilities.
^That can also be arranged. If you want to go REALLY express, you can go Rogue, Ninja, Vivisectionist Alchemist, or Snakebite Striker Brawler for 1 level, then go Sorcerer for 4 levels, and at level 3 take the feat Accomplished Sneak Attacker (which strangely is still not on d20pfsrd.com) -- this gets you up to Sneak Attack 2d6. At 5th level, which is 4th level Sorcerer, you go Arcane Trickster. You are only short 1 level of spellcasting progression. If you eventually want to get rid of this and at the same time improve your Sneak Attack, you do something similar but start out with a Sneak Attack class that is not Rogue, and at 3rd level you go VMC Rogue. At character level 7, you start getting Sneak Attack dice from VMC Rogue (also gained at character levels 11, 15, and 19), and you can retrain out your 1st level Sneak Attack class for another level of Sorcerer.
You can also do the same thing with Arcanist or Wizard instead of Sorcerer, but Witch by default doesn't have Mage Hand, so you would have to jump through hoops to get it in order to qualify. Arcanist and Witch lose out big on class features if you prestige out, so you probably don't want to use these (especially Witch even if you could jump through the hoops), whereas Sorcerer (usually) loses out moderately and Wizard (usually) loses out mildly from doing this. For Wizard, getting that 5th level gets you a Wizard Bonus Feat or Arcane Discovery.
This isn't technically legal, but it also isn't over powered in so... Why not ask your DM if they will let you combine crossblooded with wildblooded? You can use INT for your primary casting and class stat, and still retain your snake abilities.
The crossblooded penalties will hurt, but if you really want to be a skill monkey then it seems worth it.
AVR, ill definitely take sleep venom as soon as I can fit it in, do you know if their are feats or items that make DC's of these abilities higher?
That's the snakebite dagger I mentioned. Or the Ability Focus feat. Or, if you want to get fancy, being shaken or sickened gives your enemies a save penalty, and there are spells, intimidate, and feats which boost intimidate to apply these.
Also I don't know anything about variant multiclassing, I don't have unchained so I don't know what I'd be giving up?
You give up half your feats by level, the level 3, 7, 11, 15 &19 ones. For details see here.
Also, a guide to Variant Multiclassing is available.
Poison Focus (the feat) will add 1 to the DC of both your crafted poisons and spells with the poison descriptor.
Cool thanks everyone. It's a lot to digest. In the end I'll probably just go straight sorcerer, my build as it stands gets +8 disable Dev, +7 perception, +7 bluff, +7 diplomacy and +5 to stealth, escape artist, and acrobatics. His carrying capacity sucks but I'll just roll with it. Looks like light crossbow will be my primary non magic attack, now I just have to pick two 1st level spells. Probably Mage armor and some kind of attack.