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I love the Froggies, but I don't know how I feel about them starting yet another kickstarter today with two currently pending, one of which is looking to be way behind schedule.
Couldn't the manpower be better served catching up the current ones?
The new Swords & Wizardry 3rd printing Kickstarter is all being run by a dedicated project team where the changes are just artwork and layout from the 2nd printing.
Couldn't the manpower be better served catching up the current ones?
GM Rednal already answered in part, but I'm going to expand on this.
In a word, "no". Game development has a pipeline. You start with authors writing materials, then you do post-writing development to confirm the content is appropriate, then you commission artwork and maps, then you do another development pass, then you commission layout to integrate the art and written word. Somewhere in there you have at least one editorial pass where typos and logic errors are corrected.
Point is that you have multiple different tasks that have different bodies working on them. The first is usually the author doing writing, which could take months to a year. Authors don't (usually) edit, develop, or do art or layout. Also, once an author does their turn-in, the first development pass may reveal that the material isn't up to snuff, requiring a re-write or augmentation, which goes back to the author.
Starting a new KS isn't worrying to me. Finishing one... might be.
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There's a phrase I came up with during one of my turns on funeral detail in the military. "Too many hands, not enough handles." In that case, it was the fact that the coffin only had six single-hand handles. Each of us had to try and carry with only one hand or fit both hands around the handle.
The bottom line is that not every project benefits from extra personnel. Many hands only make light work if there is room for those hands to help. Frog God should know by now where they can best put personnel to make things happen, so I trust them to do so.
There is a thread with the link here.
Okay that alleviates my worries a bit.
Just a thought, have any of you given any thought to what writing and doing the editing and layout on a 900+ page book would entail? I hadn't. I've read the updates from Bill and Greg about how the Bard's Gate book had to be finished first because of a printing contract, and then the additional material from the stretch goals had to be written. I believe usually FGG has their books written or nearly written before they start a KS. But I am unsure if that was the case with The Blight. Add in the medical emergency with Chuck the Layout Guru and that by itself would put a crimp in anyone's plans.
I have backed several FGG KS and have never been disappointed. I am not an employee, just a fanboy (maybe I should say Fanman or just a fan). I hope to hear some good news soon. But whether I do or not is immaterial. I will wait as long as it takes.
Just my 2 cp.
I love the Froggies, but I don't know how I feel about them starting yet another kickstarter today with two currently pending, one of which is looking to be way behind schedule.
Couldn't the manpower be better served catching up the current ones?
It basically comes down to a choke point of quality control. Like any big project, the main creative players have done their parts, but now it has to go through an ever smaller area of editors/developers and finally to Greg himself. As an overseer, he is making sure things are as good as they can possibly be. That piles more and more work on him (over 550k of words), but its the last and final gate before release. hehe While he gets swamped, the other frogs become idle...or start working on other projects. :)
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It basically comes down to a choke point of quality control. Like any big project, the main creative players have done their parts, but now it has to go through an ever smaller area of editors/developers and finally to Greg himself. As an overseer, he is making sure things are as good as they can possibly be. That piles more and more work on him (over 550k of words), but its the last and final gate before release. hehe While he gets swamped, the other frogs become idle...or start working on other projects. :)I love the Froggies, but I don't know how I feel about them starting yet another kickstarter today with two currently pending, one of which is looking to be way behind schedule.
Couldn't the manpower be better served catching up the current ones?
Greg posted an update on the The Blight KS page about an hour or so ago. The Blight is a monstrously huge undertaking - as several have already mentioned - with numerous stages from writing to production. The S&W 3rd printing was worked on by a completely different team and very likely wouldn't interfere with either The Blight or the completion of Bard's Gate.
Have faith - the Froggies have never been ones to drop the ball or disappoint.
Much love Greg! Thanks for the update!
Thanks for the update!
Well my main concern with the multiple KS's outstanding is the cashflow of the company rather than the personnel. However I trust that they'd tell the backers if there were problems, since we'd be sure to help a company as friendly as FGG.
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The end is near. I hear a noise at the door, as of some immense slippery body lumbering against it. It shall not find me. God, that hand! The window! The window!
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JonathonWilder - if you want a taste of what The Blight is going to be like, you should read Crooked by Richard Pett. The city of Brine in Crooked is essentially the same city that will feature in The Blight, but The Blight is adapted for traditional fantasy rather than the steampunk(ish) setting of Crooked. It is a great read and creepy too.
When I am able to, if I am able to, I do plan on getting a color hardcover once this is out. I missed out on the kickstarter but I am still very interesting in the concept and setting.
Just echo-ing what Zhern said, Crooked is a very evocative... and quite cool... story that is probably the closest reflection of what the setting of the Blight will be like. For my part, I hope that some of the Steam-punky aspects of the novel are kept in as they really brought the place to life in my imagination...
...and on to the department of expectation managements - I think the Blight is being publishd as B&W only? From memory, a colour edition was set as a kickstarter stretch goal that was way way high... and the producers of the book seemed to suggest that the mood of the book was better presented in monochrome.
...and on to the department of expectation managements - I think the Blight is being publishd as B&W only? From memory, a colour edition was set as a kickstarter stretch goal that was way way high... and the producers of the book seemed to suggest that the mood of the book was better presented in monochrome.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe that pretty much all of FGG's hardcover books have color covers and black-and-white interior art.
All of the sample artwork shown to backers so far have been B&W line drawings.
I am so looking forward to this book!
If I'm not mistaken, I believe that pretty much all of FGG's hardcover books have color covers and black-and-white interior art.
All of the sample artwork shown to backers so far have been B&W line drawings.
I am so looking forward to this book!
The interior artwork for Bard's Gate is color. That said, the preview artwork they've shown for The Blight has been Black & White, and there's been no indication that that'll change.
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Been a month since the last update (which basically was just a - still working on it, timeline unknown update) and getting close to 4 months over due.
I am starting to get a little worried about the project. If they budgeted that the revenue from the Blight was going to support the company (or provide a significant portion of the companies income) through July and now that same amount of revenue is having to pay the way through January (at best? I just dont see anyway we get a physical product before then) it seems like cash flow could start to become a significant issue.
Between that and the fact that at 4 months past due we still don't have even an estimated release date, this project is starting to feel like it may have blown up to too large a project for the frogs to manage effectively.
I still trust it will get done but if this were any other company we would be firmly at the point where I would start to wonder if this project was going to be vaporware. That thought is a little disconcerting.
Nah - "too large a project" does not apply to the frogs. :)
No other publisher on the planet has produced as many game books as large as they have.
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...yeah - this is indeed BIG - to the point that, as mentioned in the Comments pages of the Kickstarter itself, maybe having the Blight Setting and it's associated AP (the Levee) in a single book... I think it is now 1100 pages (up from a previous estimate of 900?)... might be stretching the realms of what is sensible. I wonder whether we might get to the point where there would be an option to have 2 separate hardback books rather than a single, possibly rather too cumbersome, tome? I, for one, would throw a little more money at that if it meant I had a book that doesn't become an adventure and a work out in one!
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If they budgeted that the revenue from the Blight was going to support the company (or provide a significant portion of the companies income) through July and now that same amount of revenue is having to pay the way through January (at best? I just dont see anyway we get a physical product before then) it seems like cash flow could start to become a significant issue.
To a certain degree, this is a non-concern. Small companies like FGG (probably) have zero full-time employees drawing hourly wages. Instead, remuneration is based on work-performed. So authors get paid per word written. Artists get paid per artwork created. Layout people get paid per page/project completed. Editors get paid per word.
It doesn't matter if an editor can't edit for two months; the company doesn't pay that editor during that two months. When they do get the editing done, they get paid for the work performed.
So cash-flow isn't usually an issue, except where you have a regular schedule. If you're expecting your profits from product B to come in to pay for your print costs from making product A, and product B is delayed, that could be a problem. Otherwise delays are just delays.
Frog God is a very small group, really. Long story short is everyone's got a day job and real lives, and at the moment those (as well as some other project issues) are getting in the way of getting this done on schedule. There's really a 0% chance of this being vaporware.
Lack of updates doesn't mean anything. It's very hard to justify writing a "got two more pages done this month, nine hundred and seventy eight to go" update isn't a} satisfying or b} a worthwhile use of time when you could spend that time working on one more page instead.
That isn't to say waiting doesn't suck... it does. It's just... this is what it is.
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For my part, I wish creators did give regular updates when projects run late, but I don't want frequent ones.
I think it would make sense to say "We'll update every four weeks" (or "two months" or whatever) and then make a brief post spelling out what had happened in that time (even if it's "We're waiting for the printer" or "Chuck is still sick" or "Still can't give any firm delivery date").
It doesn't seem to me that would take a lot of time and it at least counters any impression that nothing is happening. For the record, I am not losing any sleep over the delay - slower and better beats on time and rushed in my mind.
I would also prefer somewhat regular updates. I have no doubt we will get our rewards, but this is a highly anticipated product. Having somewhat regular updates, even if brief, is desirable. The lack of updates is the main reason I did not back S&W. Yes, not rational, but that's just me.
FGG is a standup organization, so I'm not concerned about the fact that the product is coming. It'll get here . . . eventually.
Admittedly, I'm a bit old-school, but this experience (my first and only) with kickstarter has certainly soured me on it. I can't see myself backing another project via kickstarter in the near (or distant) future. I'll just wait for the product to get to the shelves. That may mean paying a bit more, but at least expectation will be met: I order, it comes in the mail within a few business days. If a highly-praised company struggles to meet its date by such a huge margin, I'd hate to think what it'll be like backing a company without such a phenomenal reputation.
I would also prefer somewhat regular updates. I have no doubt we will get our rewards, but this is a highly anticipated product. Having somewhat regular updates, even if brief, is desirable. The lack of updates is the main reason I did not back S&W. Yes, not rational, but that's just me.
Same here. I sat out S&W for the very same reason.
...yeah - this is indeed BIG - to the point that, as mentioned in the Comments pages of the Kickstarter itself, maybe having the Blight Setting and it's associated AP (the Levee) in a single book... I think it is now 1100 pages (up from a previous estimate of 900?)... might be stretching the realms of what is sensible. I wonder whether we might get to the point where there would be an option to have 2 separate hardback books rather than a single, possibly rather too cumbersome, tome? I, for one, would throw a little more money at that if it meant I had a book that doesn't become an adventure and a work out in one!
Totally agree. I would much rather this thing were two books. It's probably going to be a pain in the butt to run a game out of a 1000 word book. I'm guessing that would be pricier though.
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I can't see myself backing another project via kickstarter in the near (or distant) future.
Shrug.
I've had flawless success with Kickstarter projects so far, with about 20 backed. I've been able to keep my backing only to projects from companies that I trust to deliver.
But here's my word of advice: ignore the "expected delivery" date.
Basically, once something is funded, I typically "zone out" and stop paying attention. Things show up unexpectedly for me from time to time, because I just don't stress about the timelines. In fact, for me, updates are often an unwanted distraction. All I really want to hear is "your stuff shipped".
So anyway, think of Kickstarters as patronage. You're assisting an artist at creating something. Maybe it'll flop and you've lost your money. Maybe it'll be on time. Maybe it'll be delayed. Whatever. Just patronize companies and individuals you wouldn't mind giving money to, and sit back and relax. That's my advice.
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I have four KS that failed to deliver, Five that are way behind on delivery, but of the rest, FGG has always delivered. Yes, they may have been somewhat late but they did deliver a quality product. My total number pledged is 47 KS, not all were FGG.
So I at least am not worried about will they deliver. Sometimes they have the main product of the KS completed, but what slows things up are the Stretch goals. If they are not already written then that must happen. FGG members all have day jobs, too.
The Blight will happen.
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**Apologies ahead of time if this comes off as snarky. That isn't the intent. I am only being direct - sorry if that ruffles any feathers.**
I would echo what GM Rednal said - think of Kickstarter like patronage and always pad the delivery day. More creators should pad the date themselves, but it is what it is. If you go into a Kickstarter as a backer thinking you are going to get the rewards when the pledge says you will then you should probably consider waiting until the books hit the shelves. That is the reality of crowdfunding. Delays happen.
There are other ways to communicate with FGG too, their Facebook page being a prime example. Zach is very responsive on there - not necessarily about detailed Kickstarter statuses but he can certainly confirm that work is ongoing and that while the Kickstarter updates might not be frequent, the Frogs aren't going to screw anyone or let anyone down. They have integrity and are good to their word.
That being said, the delay probably wouldn't have been as bad as it was if it weren't for Chuck's medical complications and having to have his leg amputated. He is THE layout guy. That puts a halt on a lot of things. Also, they had a much stricter date to meet for printing for Bard's Gate since that is being printed in China (which it should be on a boat heading this way currently). I'm more than willing to cut them slack because they can't control health issues, life interruptions, and their day job responsibilities.
As The Herald Frog mentioned, Greg just posted an update which is very thorough and provides extremely reasonable points as to why things are delayed and what the status of each piece is. It will get done, it won't be when we all want it (which is yesterday or today at the very latest), and yeah, there should be better communication but given their track record of putting out fantastic products and never skimping to deliver, I'm willing to wait for it to be done and be done right.
Hedge your bets on the conservative side and add 6 months to most major Kickstarter deliverables. Do as Rednal mentions and just zone out about it. You'd be surprised how much more relaxing it makes backing projects. I've backed a total of 147 projects, several of which are years behind (Torment: Tides of Numenera, Camelot Unchained, etc), but given that there is transparency by those creators and they have a strong reputation, I'm not upset about it. I'll get them eventually.
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I know delays suck and it is difficult to wait, especially when you've put forth money, but as I finished my development/editing part of the Setting book all I could do was smile. This is bada**. I can't wait until you all get this and start having nightmares from the horrors contained within! Please keep the faith, this is massive, but I have no doubts you will all be so pleased with it. :D
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Well, Anguish is more zen about it than I am... but I'm still pretty chill myself. XD As long as I believe work on something is proceeding, I'm basically satisfied - I'd rather the product be done right, and if that means delays, so be it.
Oops, I should have scrolled back up before attributing the zone out quote.
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Well, Anguish is more zen about it than I am... but I'm still pretty chill myself. XD As long as I believe work on something is proceeding, I'm basically satisfied - I'd rather the product be done right, and if that means delays, so be it.Oops, I should have scrolled back up before attributing the zone out quote.
No worries, man. Not like I'm likely to get upset at not getting credit, hey? <Grin>
Oh, and yeah, Torment. I'm backing that too. No clue when it was, or is, due.
