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The standard kobold in the Beastiary is a warrior 1 which is a CR 1/4 threat. They also automatically get Craft: Traps as a skill as well as Stealth. They get a +2 Perception for their Racial bonus, a +4 Stealth from their size and generally travel in packs. Light Sensitivity as a weakness as well as Darkvision suggests that kobolds generally don't walk about in broad daylight. Couple that with high Stealth and a low tolerance for damage (standard Kobold in the book has 5 HP) and you gotta figure these things generally keep to environments it's easy to hide in.
So if you surprise some kobolds I could see it being a CR 1/2 or even a CR 1/4 fight but if not then:
1. why would they NOT be using their environment to their advantage (Cover, Higher Ground, Difficult Terrain, etc.)
2. why would they not be in close proximity to their traps?
3. why would they fight ANYONE in the open?
I'm talking Tucker's Kobolds here; in their lair all the above makes sense. But like, I was writing a homebrew encounter involving some kobolds trying to steal a mundane book from a mundane library. Why would said kobolds in the library not be moving with extreme stealth, tossing smokesticks, attacking from the tops of the stacks and using ranged attacks to keep foes at bay?
All of the above, using their environment and decent equipment and superior tactics adds to the CR of the fight. So there's my question: why would kobolds EVER be a low-CR encounter?
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Yeah, Kobolds might have some tactical aces that they can work with, but as creatures, do you think they're really smart enough to pull it off? Also, do you think any adventurer worth their salt wouldn't be prepared for some of the tactics that creatures such as Kobolds can implement? Lack of preparedness isn't an excuse to make creatures strong.
Tucker's Kobolds is an exaggeration of what happens when you have idiot adventurers who take fights for granted, and don't come prepared for when a fight that appears easy is actually a case of biting off more than they can chew.
You might as well play Oozes as some Intelligence 500 mastermind because apparently being mindless is perhaps one of its most powerful traits yet, and therefore should be played off as "YOU CAN'T OUTLOGIC ME, SON, I'LL PLAY YOU LIKE A FLAWLESS GAME OF CHESS!"
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Kobolds usually have average (10) intelligence. Their undoing is in slightly below average Wisdom (9) and Charisma (8). They're typically not as patient as normal, and they're pretty easy to Intimidate (demoralize) in combination with their Small size (DC is effectively a 6 for a Medium foe attempting to demoralize one).
However, much like goblins, they pack a mean Stealth-based alpha strike. Their description pegs Mark Hoover's points. It's not a matter of playing as a tactical genius. Most 'ancient world' soldiers probably aren't packing above an 11 Int, so what they do reflects their training as Warriors. Using the facets of combat that emphasize the benefits of their size would be part and parcel of their training. Doing so takes actions, so the dreaded kobold commandos may not be firing off an attack every round if they're busy scaling shelves and moving at reduced speed using Stealth. They have penalties for making jumps (net -3), so a stereotypical library isn't the guaranteed tactical advantage it seems at a glance. Knock over the bookcases, forcing them to jump for their lives (and probably failing) is just the first thing that comes to mind. Make a good enough check, you have the "library dominoes" scene from The Mummy.
When running kobolds on a mission as per the OP, the environment adds to the encounter CR. How much is discretionary. With the "kobolds on a mission" described, if the PCs figure out what the objective is, they gain the advantage and can take the Macguffin where they have the tactical advantage (reducing the encounter CR).
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Because if they sit in their trapped cave and wait, the PCs will just sit outside and starve them out.
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Or smoke them out. Nasty business.
Cos monsters are stupid and that is why they deserve to die.
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I think that encountering any creature in their own lair that has any semblance of intelligence should be a harrying encounter if they are given time to prepare. I will agree that kobolds are given less umph than they deserve given the concept.
I will say this, the basic kobold is not going to be incredibly brilliant at setting up traps and choke points for ambush tactics. Those tactics should be reserved for the higher CR kobolds like their commandos and such; however, that's not to say the commandos cannot direct the "lesser" kobolds to use such tactics. Now the basic kobolds will probably be less effective at certain tactics. Lighting issues is one that I see being utilized to their advantage.
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A chokepoint is a very basic tactic. The kobolds may only use 1 or 2 simple traps for the main entrance, concealed punji pits and similarly simple traps (they can take 10 for a DC 16 Craft check, so the upper CR range of what traps kobolds can easily make is fairly low). With sufficient aid, they can probably attain as high as a DC 20, higher is hard to justify for most traps unless the trap is particularly large and they have access to ant haul or communal ant haul for moving heavier trap components into place.
Despite the advantages of ambush tactics, they only provide so much mechanical assistance for the run-of-the-mill warrior's low attack bonuses and very low damage output.
Generally, kobolds can't counteract light sensitivity, a common weakness that almost anyone that can make the pertinent Knowledge check will be able to relate. That's, what, a DC 5 Knowledge (local) check? A DC 10 probably relates both it and their general proclivities towards cowardice and trap use. Anyone can attempt the DC of 10.
Players are clever. One possibility upon realizing what they're up against is to requisition a large polished metal surface to direct sunlight into the cavern entrance. Dazzled isn't that impressive at a glance ... until you stack it up against the kobolds' +3 ranged/+1 melee attack bonuses, when it becomes a major game changer. The little cowards could (and probably would barring extenuating circumstances) flee the bright light being reflected into their entrance, falling back around a turn or two.
Entering a warren is a nasty proposition, if we're looking at the 'nest' averaging 20 combatants and a 3rd level sergeant and a 4th-6th level leader. If the lair is an entire tribe, that's got death written all over it with ~200 warriors, ~10 sergeants, 2 4th level lieutenants, a 6th-8th level leader and a pack of (1d12+4) possibly/probably combat-trained dire rats.
1st-2nd level characters wouldn't be seeing an individual creature CR higher than 5, but they can easily 'chain' the entire nest or tribe, which could overwhelm them with sheer numbers. Unless they use the kobolds' own choke points against them...
They might encounter a kobold foraging party, a diplomatic envoy, a tribe recently decimated by a poor decision in its monstrous master (now gone to find food that tastes better than kobolds), kobolds that have recently established a warren and haven't set up much by way of traps or are still digging the warren, kobolds that are even more cowardly than usual, kobolds in the middle of a fight with something else, kobolds that mistake the party's draconic sorcerer or bloodrager for a prophet, or kobolds that have recently captured a shipment of alcohol.
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Craft: Traps is all very well, but going by the rules it costs 1000gp to dig a simple pit trap, and if you want to conceal your pit... well, if the kobolds are that rich, they could afford to live in a luxury hotel instead.
Craft: Traps is all very well, but going by the rules it costs 1000gp to dig a simple pit trap, and if you want to conceal your pit... well, if the kobolds are that rich, they could afford to live in a luxury hotel instead.
Which makes the rules for building traps [redacted] silly. Simple traps using simple materials should have little or no cost, q.v. Rambo in First Blood. DC 34 magical traps don't cost nearly as much as comparable CR non-magical traps do.
It certainly doesn't take 1,000 gp of CRB Crafting time to dig a pit.
How many kobolds are you talking about, here? One is a low CR encounter; a dozen would be a different matter.
How many kobolds are you talking about, here? One is a low CR encounter; a dozen would be a different matter.
12 Kobolds = 1200XP = CR 4. On a par with a single Pixie.
How many kobolds are you talking about, here? One is a low CR encounter; a dozen would be a different matter.12 Kobolds = 1200XP = CR 4. On a par with a single Pixie.
A single pixie that has a stealth bonus of +36 (because pixies remain invisible even when attacking unless they suppress it), can shoot magical arrows to turn enemies into allies or put them to sleep, and is pretty much a god of stealth and ambush wrapped up in an adorable 24 inch package of grace, beauty, and certain death.
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Honestly, this applies to any adversary smart enough to neutralize threats by meeting them with overwhelming force. The moment encounters are no longer twiddling their thumbs in a dungeon room waiting for the PC's to barge through the door, and actually have the intelligence to be proactive, they become much more dangerous.
dot
So there's my question: why would kobolds EVER be a low-CR encounter?
Because, speaking of the very basic Bestiary's Kobolds, it has very low offensive capabilities and goes down with a single arrow.
It can use terrain and tactics, but it's not master strategist, nor can it craft Disintegration traps or rely on other "high-end" resources. Add that one of them dies each time an adventurer blinks an eye, and I don't see anything odd with their CR.
I once had to deal with 4 kobolds we couldn't get because they were up a 10 foot wall, who were shooting with crossbows. Two would shoot two would reload.
Mine first GM ever used to ambush our party many times with 1st level kobolds, and we didn't have any problem in killing them. Then one times we met a lonely kobold sitting on the road ignoring us.
We decided to attack him on sight... of course he was a very high-level kobold (barbarian if I remember correctly) and started crushing all of us, forcing the unbuffed party to retreat.
Lesson learned.
Maybe was because of that first campaign that I started loving kobold thereafter.
By this logic, no low-CR'd creature is low CR. Since most of them are at least as intelligent or craft as Kobolds.
And now you've entered a war of escalation. If 1/4 CR/10 Int creatures are a difficult challenge for, say, an APL 5 party...that means a CR 5 creature of equal or greater intelligence is then impossible to face, because they will take the same precautions, except better.
Lesson learned.You learned that your GM liked to screw with you?
Never attack a lonely and apparently inoffensive creature... we are Role-Playing not Roll-Playing.
We were supposed to talk to him in a social encounter and so learn some useful information of why the tribe was constantly attacking us.But we were too young and eager of killing and farming XP at that age.
By this logic, no low-CR'd creature is low CR. Since most of them are at least as intelligent or craft as Kobolds.
And now you've entered a war of escalation. If 1/4 CR/10 Int creatures are a difficult challenge for, say, an APL 5 party...that means a CR 5 creature of equal or greater intelligence is then impossible to face, because they will take the same precautions, except better.
It's a whole squad of pixie assassins murderhoboing their way through the world as the plan to eradicate the humans who keep trying to capture them to get high off their pixie dust!
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Lesson learned.You learned that your GM liked to screw with you?Never attack a lonely and apparently inoffensive creature... we are Role-Playing not Roll-Playing.
We were supposed to talk to him in a social encounter and so learn some useful information of why the tribe was constantly attacking us.
But we were too young and eager of killing and farming XP at that age.
Sounds like you were roleplaying perfectly.
As people who were being CONSTANTLY ATTACKED by Kobolds.
Your first thought SHOULD have been "This is an enemy" not "Let's parlay here. I totally trust this guy after his friends all tried to murder me repeatedly!"
Your GM just had a story in mind he hadn't fully thought through and tried to railroad you.
I'm not saying Pixies can be threatening, but they aren't Level 20 Ninjas, or God Wizards, who can basically say "Screw the rules."
Hell, cancer is probably a more deadly thing than the Pixies, since it's unpredictable, sufferable, and I could assure you that nothing short of a Heal spell would fix that.
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Lesson learned.You learned that your GM liked to screw with you?Never attack a lonely and apparently inoffensive creature... we are Role-Playing not Roll-Playing.
We were supposed to talk to him in a social encounter and so learn some useful information of why the tribe was constantly attacking us.
But we were too young and eager of killing and farming XP at that age.Sounds like you were roleplaying perfectly.
As people who were being CONSTANTLY ATTACKED by Kobolds.
Your first thought SHOULD have been "This is an enemy" not "Let's parlay here. I totally trust this guy after his friends all tried to murder me repeatedly!"
Your GM just had a story in mind he hadn't fully thought through and tried to railroad you.
You are right, but we at least have to suspect it was some kind of bait for another ambush before attacking him.
But we didn't. We were 12 years old...Yes, our GM was only 2 years older and inexperienced, and sometimes railroading the story, but then we grow up and even our playing style with us.
It called "the world wants you to win" , it is the same in movies/series.
It means , that unless the PCs do something really stupid , the GM made the world in a way the PCs will win in the end of the day.
Sure the PCs could fall into a kobolt trap and be killed by their 2000 men army , thing is , this is what happened to the last adventurers party that passed the caverns and the PCs were luck the kobolts are busy right now.
Honestly, this applies to any adversary smart enough to neutralize threats by meeting them with overwhelming force. The moment encounters are no longer twiddling their thumbs in a dungeon room waiting for the PC's to barge through the door, and actually have the intelligence to be proactive, they become much more dangerous.
Or to put it another way, opponents that aren't totally stupid should refrain from acting like Creeps in WarCraft III/TFT that just stand in their assigned spots waiting for a player's forces to come along and massacre them (and if you are watching a replay, this actually looks comical in a perverse way).
So 4 kobold warrior 1 foes, each with a 10 Int, Wis 9 and Cha 8 are a CR 1 threat. I guess my point just was why in the heck would these 4 knuckleheads EVER just be standing in the open, a party of PCs enter said area, and then they charge attack dealing perhaps 5 damage and then all being killed? That's a CR 1 fight.
4 kobolds are foraging in the dark forest. The PCs are moving through the same woodlands and are moving with practiced stealth. Chances are the PCs are not ALL hitting the same Stealth checks that the kobolds are, so there's a chance that the kobolds hear the PCs first.
Now: you're 4 kobolds; you're out on your own, way off from your maze of deadly traps and such. What possible reason would you have to turn to each other and be like: "Y'know what'd be AWESOME? If the four of us, dressed in primitive armor and wielding stone spears and slings, charged out of the underbrush into the midst of 4 humanoids, 2 of which are clad in tank armor and all of which have better weaponry than us, even the one with the book on its hip!"
I suppose there might be some scenarios where said kobolds think they might be able to take the party or perhaps try to surround a single advanced scout but I think it's more likely that these 4 kobolds would tear back through the woods, at the very least to where they've got that Snapping Branch or Concealed Pit trap set up. If they haven't been seen yet they'd use Stealth to flee; once they're spotted they've got the SAME speed as most PCs and are at the same disadvantages in the woods.
By the way, I forgot to mention in my post above that WarCraft III has Kobold Creeps, and they do just stand around in the open like knuckleheads (as perversely comically as noted above), like all the other Creeps.
Creeps just standing around like knuckleheads is one of the things I'd like to see changed from WarCraft III to WarCraft IV (and WarCraft III/TFT doesn't even have any roleplaying except in the cut scenes), so in Pathfinder D&D, which is supposed to have roleplaying, this becomes even more important.
A better question is why do you think Kobolds are inherently more dangerous than Goblins, Elves, Halflings, Orcs , Humans or any other race with class levels.
All of them (and many other creatures) have incredibly varied tactics and if using clever tactics are much more dangerous than if not. However this cannot be built into CR , as a GM decide what the situation and tactics do to make the creatures more dangerous, if it does raise the CR or use less creatures.
Now: you're 4 kobolds; you're out on your own, way off from your maze of deadly traps and such. What possible reason would you have to turn to each other and be like: "Y'know what'd be AWESOME? If the four of us, dressed in primitive armor and wielding stone spears and slings, charged out of the underbrush into the midst of 4 humanoids, 2 of which are clad in tank armor and all of which have better weaponry than us, even the one with the book on its hip!"
I suppose there might be some scenarios where said kobolds think they might be able to take the party or perhaps try to surround a single advanced scout but I think it's more likely that these 4 kobolds would tear back through the woods, at the very least to where they've got that Snapping Branch or Concealed Pit trap set up. If they haven't been seen yet they'd use Stealth to flee; once they're spotted they've got the SAME speed as most PCs and are at the same disadvantages in the woods.
That's what's called "not an encounter".
I guess for the same reason any intelligent creature would be a low CR encounter...
Well, to be honest, one of the big issues with Kobolds and Kobold dungeons is that their CR, typically, is not properly taken account of. Remember, traps have their own CR, they provide experience, and they also increase the over-all loot reward of a dungeon. If there is a trap, then there should probably be misc. loot in a horde, or secret chamber, etc. to account for the trap.
Also, keep in mind, this is what the Gamemastering chapter has to say about terrain in building your encounter:
Favorable Terrain for the PCs: An encounter against a monster that's out of its favored element (like a yeti encountered in a sweltering cave with lava, or an enormous dragon encountered in a tiny room) gives the PCs an advantage. Build the encounter as normal, but when you award experience for the encounter, do so as if the encounter were one CR lower than its actual CR.
Unfavorable Terrain for the PCs: Monsters are designed with the assumption that they are encountered in their favored terrain—encountering a water-breathing aboleth in an underwater area does not increase the CR for that encounter, even though none of the PCs breathe water. If, on the other hand, the terrain impacts the encounter significantly (such as an encounter against a creature with blindsight in an area that suppresses all light), you can, at your option, increase the effective XP award as if the encounter's CR were one higher.
This is what the Bestiary has to say about Kobolds:
Kobolds are creatures of the dark, found most commonly in enormous underground warrens or the dark corners of the forest where the sun is unable to reach. Due to their physical similarities, kobolds loudly proclaim themselves the scions of dragonkind, destined to rule the earth beneath the wings of their great god-cousins, but most dragons have little use for the obnoxious pests.
While they may speak loudly of divine right and manifest destiny, kobolds are keenly aware of their own weakness. Cowards and schemers, they never fight fair if they can help it, instead setting up ambushes and double-crosses, holing up in their warrens behind countless crude but ingenious traps, or rolling over the enemy in vast, yipping hordes.
Kobold coloration varies even among siblings from the same egg clutch, ranging through the colors of the chromatic dragons, with red being the most common but white, green, blue, and black kobolds not unheard of.
So, the "favored terrain" of a kobold is either the deep forest (where the sun doesn't shine) or the underground; either of which is to be filled with ambush points, countless crude (but ingenious) traps, or filled with vast, overwhelming numbers.
This is what's assumed to be the "natural" terrain of a kobold. So kobolds encountered outside of this type of terrain, is "favorable terrain" for the PCs and may warrant a decrease in the CR of the encounter. Such as a group of 4 kobolds standing around in a clearing getting ambushed by a group of PCs. This would be an "unfavorable terrain" for the Kobolds.
However, in a raiding party, the kobolds should be using ambush tactics, of overwhelming numbers, as that's how Kobolds roll. This is when the kobolds earn the CR they've got. When the CR for Kobolds really ramp up, is if they've heavily modified their warrens to give them overwhelming advantages. Such as arrow slights in tunnels with an incline, barricaded doors and kobold archers behind a wall tossing flaming barrells of oil down the tunnel, rolling them into PCs and then triggering a pit trap. That would be a pit trap, flaming barrel and possibly unfavorable terrain, each adding to the over-all CR of the encounter, in addition to the Kobolds. Just because it's only 4 Kobolds, doesn't mean it's a CR 1 encounter, with everything else added on, it's actually a CR 4 or CR 5 encounter.
And that's where many GMs fail in these encounters, they don't account for everything involved in them.
Kobolds usually have average (10) intelligence. Their undoing is in slightly below average Wisdom (9) and Charisma (8). They're typically not as patient as normal, and they're pretty easy to Intimidate (demoralize) in combination with their Small size (DC is effectively a 6 for a Medium foe attempting to demoralize one).
However, much like goblins, they pack a mean Stealth-based alpha strike. Their description pegs Mark Hoover's points. It's not a matter of playing as a tactical genius. Most 'ancient world' soldiers probably aren't packing above an 11 Int, so what they do reflects their training as Warriors. Using the facets of combat that emphasize the benefits of their size would be part and parcel of their training. Doing so takes actions, so the dreaded kobold commandos may not be firing off an attack every round if they're busy scaling shelves and moving at reduced speed using Stealth. They have penalties for making jumps (net -3), so a stereotypical library isn't the guaranteed tactical advantage it seems at a glance. Knock over the bookcases, forcing them to jump for their lives (and probably failing) is just the first thing that comes to mind. Make a good enough check, you have the "library dominoes" scene from The Mummy.
When running kobolds on a mission as per the OP, the environment adds to the encounter CR. How much is discretionary. With the "kobolds on a mission" described, if the PCs figure out what the objective is, they gain the advantage and can take the Macguffin where they have the tactical advantage (reducing the encounter CR).
Plus, Wisdom is generally more short-term caution. Intelligence means you can plan ahead to be perfectly cautious, Wisdom means you'll exercise that plan without any chance of panicking or missing a step.
And let's not forget that kobolds aren't on par with other races. They're explicitly obsessed with creating the closest things to "no-win scenarios" they can manage to pit against their attackers. They spend their free time dreaming of nasty traps and abjectly refuse to fight an equally-numbered force if they can help it.
They aren't geniuses, but they are never going to enter anything close to a fair battle if there's another option. This is one of the most likely monsters in the Bestiary to have developed smart tactics: With a 1/4 CR, they damn well better.