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You are a novice player asking for "powerful builds" so you can essentially cause trouble at your table of novice players. This will end badly for a variety of reasons including your lack of mechanical familiarity, lack of knowledge, and the approach you are attempting in the first place. This can only end badly, with either ooc frustration, an arms race with the gm, or similar problems. You are destroying a healthy dynamic over a petty disagreement regarding the unchained monk.
I strongly advise that you stop now. You will prove nothing. Further, if you cannot put together such a character on your own you likely lack the required knowledge to actually achieve the results that people here promise.
Summoner is a terrible choice for an unskilled player. Synthesist is far worse. Both are complex and heavily rules intensive. There are veteran players that cannot make the math work on them, and many of their rules are nuanced. Anything with a pet is also bad.
Even if you succeed in building and running powerful character, it will only create problems - optimisation is only problematic in terms of players disparity or player to Gmail disparity.
If by novice you are talking about how long you have been playing for then yes I am a novice. They however are not. They have been playing for over 3 years. They just have a poor understanding of optimization and what classes when optimized well, are stronger then others. That is what I am trying to prove. From the why you talk it seems like you have more personal issues with this topic then just friendly advice. Yes I am newer to pathfinder. (8 months) I have not played every class/race so it is in my mind, reasonable to ask others advice on what are stronger classes to lean towards. If a group of veterans (time wise) get that pissed off at me for building a better optimized character then they have ever done, then that is a group I don't need to waste my time with anyways. I am trying to show that with a little bit of optimizing there are a lot of classes that can far outpace the monk. I have played a regular summoner before and it is not a "Hard" class to play. Did I min max it, no. But I don't have every feat and trait memorized either. From your stand point if I don't know how to properly optimize a class without asking for help I should not play it. If that's the case I would never be able to branch out and try other classes. Thank you for your concern but I have thought this over. Presenting a strong optimized character is not something that should start "Issue" with my group and if it does then I will move on to another group that understands this. If you can help and offer advice when it comes to building a class, that would be wonderful. If not, then I please ask that you move on please and thank you. (Not trying to be mean)
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Ok so on the giantipt forums this is what we have come up with so far.
Lv 3 Human Druid (no archtype)
Stats: Str (17) Dex (15) Con (15) Int (11) Wis (17) Cha (10)
Feats (3 total) : Spell Focus: Conjuration, Weapon Proficiency (Naginata), Combat Reflexes
Skills: Handle Animal, Knowledge (Plane, Nature), Survival, Linguistic
Traits: Younger Sibbling (Ameiko), something that gives Knowledge: Planes as a class skill
Spells: (1) Faerie Fire, Magic Fang for Monk and Tiger, Entangle
(2) Summon Swarm, Lesser Restoration
Animal Companion: White Tiger or Allosaurus if allowed
Weapon: Naganata?
Armor: ?
Gear: Wand of CLW and/or Wand of Goodberries
Need help with armor choice and any other gear I might need. Now my understanding is that I am a prepared caster so I prepare the spells from my list but I can leave some open so that I can cast Natures ally correct? Other then that Do I sit back and cast/use range weapons or use the naganata up close with my Animal Companion? Also do I get armor for animal companion? How shouls I build the Animal Companion?
Is there anything else you guys can think of that was missed?
Although this point seems to have already been addressed: Powergaming is not a bad thing. The mechanics are fun! However, intentionally building a character to blow the rest of the party out of the water is bad.
That being said, I think druid is a very good choice. If you want to be summoning more I would suggest changing out combat reflexes for augment summoning.
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Feats (3 total) : Spell Focus: Conjuration, Weapon Proficiency (Naginata), Combat Reflexes
NO! You will be wasting the feat. In 1 more level you will be wildshaping for damage. Just use a club and Shillelagh. Only time I would OK this was if your a Hunter who doesn't wildshape and needs a weapon. Then reach is amazing and you can control the Battlefield with it.
I recommend: Spell Focus- conj, Craft Wonder Item, and power attack. Your level 5 feat is Natural spell. 7 is Augmented summoning. 9 Is superior Summoning.
With those feats you have good melee combat in Wildshape with power attack
Strong summon Focus
and can Craft about 85% of your gear. As well as help other group members.
Skills: Handle Animal, Knowledge (Plane, Nature), Survival, Linguistic
Waste no more than 1-2 points on survival. You should only need like 1-2 more languages if that. I suggest Perception as a skill. Your a wisdom based class and perception is the most rolled skill in the game.
A few points in fly never hurts when you get flight forms...Spellcraft is a good skill for crafting.
Spells: (1) Faerie Fire, Magic Fang for Monk and Tiger, Entangle
(2) Summon Swarm, Lesser Restoration
Decent spell list. Not sure how often Concelment will come up in the early game Pre 5.
Armor:Hide with a wooden shield...and a club...good AC and decent attack.
Next level you will be wildshaping. So armor/weapons gets melded to you.Gear: Wand of CLW and/or Wand of GoodberriesWand of CLW is great buy. I recommend a Wand of Longstrider, Feather step, endure elements, or Produce Flame.
Goodberries wand is not that good to be honest. Especially when you get a CLW wand.
Animal Companion: White Tiger or Allosaurus if allowedThis is up to you. I like Tigers for their solid performance. But by far my favorite AC is the Giant Mantis. I like the Sudden strike, 3 movement modes, Lunge, and Grab abilities. But that is just me personally as a player.
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Ok so lets revise here:
Lv 3 Human Druid (no archtype)
Stats: Str (17) Dex (15) Con (15) Int (11) Wis (17) Cha (10)
Feats (3 total) : Spell Focus: Conjuration, Power Attack, Craft
Wondrous Item
Skills: Handle Animal, Spellcraft, Perception (Max?), Survival(1-2), Linguistic(1-2)
Traits: Younger Sibling (Ameiko), something that gives Knowledge: Planes as a class skill
Spells: (1) Faerie Fire, Magic Fang for Monk and Tiger, Entangle
(2) Summon Swarm, Lesser Restoration
Animal Companion: White Tiger
Weapon: Club,some kind of range
Armor: Hide, Wooden Shield
Gear: Wand of CLW, Wand of Endure Elements
Now the question is, do I max out perception? Also what about handle animal? I am not familiar with the workings of crafting anything. How does craft wondrous item work? Im assuming I am putting +2 into Wis to make it 19?
Why are you starting at level 3? Are you skipping half a book?
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Why are you starting at level 3? Are you skipping half a book?
There's 2 reasons for that. 1)We had a person running a campaign before this that just up and left. At that time we had just turned level 5. I am new to this group (8th months)and from what I understand they have never been able to get over level 5. So to speed up the adventure we are starting at beginning at lv 3 to make the first couple books quicker.
2)We are only 3 manning this adventure so to make it a little easier on us we got the lv boost. (DM doesn't want to gimp the adventure by getting ride of caravan stuff)
Hulk smash rules with math!!!
... And 25 point buy!!!
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I am not familiar with the workings of crafting anything. How does craft wondrous item work?
It is based off Spellcraft for you.
The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item.
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites.
Wondrous Items you need not Meet any pre-reqs other than the Feat. Just add +5 for each thing your missing.
The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items. Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. The character must spend the gold at the beginning of the construction process. Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day. This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by 5.
The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night. If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster).
That is the condensed version of the rules for Craft wondrous Item...it is one of the easier crafting feats. Right next to Craft rod.
do I max out perception?
I typically do...but if you miss a few points would not hurt a Wisdom based character. Since your crafting I highly recommend Maxing Spellcraft. At later levels it is near auto passing the craft check.
Im assuming I am putting +2 into Wis to make it 19?
A summoner type typically doesn't need a higher wisdom than a 19 to cast all levels of spells. Since summoning is not save based.
But where you put the +2 is up to you. If you plan to be about Melee combat and Summoning then +2 to str will help.
If you want to be more about spells like entangle that have saves then putting it into Wisdom is better.
Either way bumping wis to 18 and a +2 headband will do you to cast 9th level spells. (Tho you wont get that high of a level)
Also I was just cracking a joke, you guys are doing great work in here. :-)
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For those still interested (maybe not the OP alas), my recipe for the cheesiest Summoner (from 2 and a half years ago : more recent elements may even cheese it up more) :
Be an idyllkin variant aasimar : you now have Summon Nature's ally as an SLA which opens up the Moonlight, Starlight and Sunlight Summons feats. You also benefit from the bonus to CHA and CON.
Make a Summoner (Archetype Master Summoner from UM for lots of friends to bring to the party and the free Augment Summoning at level 2).
A 1-level dip in Bard (Archetype Animal Speaker from UM for even more Summons) to boost them (and your other allies) with your performances. Note that if you meet its TPA prerequisites (and have the Extra Performance feat), the Master Performer feat from the Faction Guide will increase this boost without the need for further levels in Bard.
A 1-level dip in Cavalier (Order of the Dragon for added boost to your nearby allies) to get a faithful Mount who will also share in all these nice bonuses and use Tactician to give them all a good Teamwork feat such as Shake It Off (from UC). Alternately, the Standard Bearer Archetype from UC will boost your allies even more, though at the cost of your Mount.
With such a horde of boosted minions, who even needs other party members ?
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Ok so I did some more tweeking and this is what I got so far. My dm is ok with dinosaurs and I was thinking of focusing more on the bond between myself the my AC instead of summonings.
Lv 3 Human Druid (no archetype)Eye for Talent trait
Stats: Str (19) Dex (15) Con (15) Int (11) Wis (17) Cha (10)
Feats (2 total) : Power Attack, Precision Strike (Teamwork Feat)
Skills: Handle Animal, Spellcraft (maxed), Perception (Maxed), Survival(2), Knowledge Nature (1) Knowledge Plane (1), Use Magic Device (maxed)
Traits: Foster Child, Dangerously Curious
Spells: (1) Shillelagh, Magic Fang, Entangle
(2) Summon Swarm, Lesser Restoration
Weapon: Club, Scimitar, Shortbow
Armor: Darkwood Heavy Shield, Agile Breastplate (Ironwood)
Gear: Wand of CLW, Wand of Endure Elements, Potion of Enlarge Person (6)
Animal Companion: Velociraptor (Int boosted)
Feats: Precision Strike (Teamwork Feat), Light Armor Proficiency
AC Armor: Masterwork Lamellar Leather
My thought process is to enlarge the AC at beginning of fight the charge in with it. Get Shillelagh on myself and get into flanking position. If all of the AC's attacks hit it would be 1d8,2d6,+ 3d6(Teamwork Feat) or 1d6,2d4,+3d6 if not enlarged. Along with that I would be doing 2d6 plus the 1d6 along with power attack and flanking....
Just alot of damage. Starting out I would have 20AC and my pet would have 22AC So probably most tanky of the group too.
Yes I am postponing craft wondrous item, but the survivability is to good to give up for crafting at this level.
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Yes I am postponing craft wondrous item, but the survivability is to good to give up for crafting at this level.
I don't think Eye for talent is worth it on a Druid especially when you are denied a feat. Taking Teamwork feats on a druid is much harder than it is on a Hunter who automatically gives his teamwork feats to the Animal companion.
Also you will be delaying CWI to level 7 or later. Your missing out on many levels of -50% off items.
Lastly did you give up on being summon focused all to gether? If so you might want to look into the hunter. Here is a copy of a Hunter I posted a few days ago who makes a super strong AC and He is pretty brutal in combat himself.
Human 20 point buy
Str: 17, Dex: 12, Con: 14, Int 13, Wis: 14, Cha: 8
Traits: Transmuter of Korada- Cat's Grace (level 4 Cat's grace is a 10 min buff and increases your AoOs)
Your Choice: Threatened Defender or Dirty Fighter or anything really
Mandatory skills:
You need 5 ranks of Bluff by level 6 to qualify for Broken Wing gambit. It is a bit of a skill tax but the feat is ungodly strong. You get 8 skill points a level anyways so no big deal.
Feats by level:
Human: Combat Reflexes
1: Combat Expertise
2: Teamwork Feat: Outflank
3: Power Attack
3: Teamwork Feat: Pack Flanking
5: Improved Trip
6: Teamwork Feat: Broken Wing Gambit
7: Paired Opportunist
9: Greater Trip
9: Teamwork Feat: Coordinated Maneuver or Tandem Trip (Dealer's Choice)
11: Improved Critical-Reach weapon of Choice (pre-req for Seize the moment)
12: Teamwork Feat: Seize the Moment
A Sample Spell List:
(Trying to take advantage of Transmuter Trait)
((Remember you get summon nature's ally for Free))
0- Detect Magic, Read Magic, Create Water, Guidance, Mending
1- Obscuring Mist, Lead Blades, Faerie Fire, Resist Energy
2- Cat's Grace, Barkskin, Stone Call, Lesser Restoration, Summon Swarm
3- Cure Moderate Wounds, Greater Magic Fang or Strong Jaw, Stone Shape, Life Bubble (Underrated Protection spell..Stink Clouds and cloudkill are real things)
4- Animal Growth, Freedom of Movement, Cure Serious Wounds
5- Stoneskin
Wands:
Cure light Wound
Feather Step
Long Strider
Gear:
Reach weapon of choice...preferably adamantine with a backup MW Cold Iron. A favorite of Mine is a +1 Adamantine Menancing Fortuitous Bardiche.
+2 headband of Wisdom (So you can cast all your spells)
Belt of Strength or Belt of Str and Con
Good armor for yourself and Mithral Chainshirt Barding for your Animal companion
Amulet of Mighty fists for your Animal companion
Lesser Rod of Extend Spell
Alchemist Fires for damaging swarms early-> Swarm banes Clasp for higher CR swarms
Basically the two act as a shredding team. Broken Wing Gambit will proc lots of AoO for you to get in so many attacks a round.
Not as powerful a caster as the Druid but the Hunter does make stronger animal companions. Also your performance may spark others to take the same teamwork feats. Outflank and Broken Wing Gambit are both really good. As is them benefiting off your Trip AoO. If you get a AC with Grab ability you have some many choices of controlling a large area of the battlefield with Combat maneuvers and AoOs with reach.
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so does hunter get to beast shape. Reason for my thinking is I can change into a raptor myself and with being medium I am assuming I follow the medium animal companion version of raptor for my attacks and stats? if so thats 5 attacks with pounce allowing up to 5d6 additional damage from myself and from my ac
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so does hunter get to beast shape. Reason for my thinking is I can change into a raptor myself and with being medium I am assuming I follow the medium animal companion version of raptor for my attacks and stats? if so thats 5 attacks with pounce allowing up to 5d6 additional damage from myself and from my ac
no they don't get Beast shape. They stay Un-shapped to get in a Full attack option and open themselves up with Broken Wing Gambit. When the Enemy Attacks them back Broken Wing Gambit kicks in for the AC Attacks. Then the AC goes and does the same leaving himself open to Broken wing Gambit and if they enemy attacks them it procs a AoO from the hunter.
Pack flanking lets you flank from any position as long as you threaten. So your AC can stand toe to toe with the enemy and you can stand in the squares behind him or catty-corner and use your reach weapon to gain flanking. The enemy basically walks into a blender of AoO attacks for thinking he can move through your dominate space or attack either of you.The double pounce is nice but you wont be flanking when the pounce happens. Its hard to Double charge and be flanking the same creature.
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Swarm banes clasp
Ranged....summon critters or a swarm on it, cast a spell at it like stone call preventing it a quick get away. You are proficient with a bow but your not feated for it so that could be a option. You could have your tiger Run it down.
The issue is your not going to be able to cover every single aspect. But you still have answers.
And with a hunter you can get great skills. 6+Int and the ability to Improved Empathic Link (Su) for scouting up to 1 mile away. You can have the Pet use stealth and such. So if you get creative and plan out everything properly you will have a very fine tuned character that the other players are envious of and seems like they can do a bit of everything and really excel in melee combat.
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I think im going to forgo the crafting and focus on combat. The hunter is sounding good if I can share teamwork feats plus give the animal its own feats. Heres the thing about getting its intelligence to 3. I can put armor on it. That was the major reason for it (along with the team feats) So what am I to do about buffing the ac on the animal now if I leave its int alone? With my original plan it had 22 ac because of armor. I dont think I can get it that high without it.
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Heres the thing about getting its intelligence to 3. I can put armor on it. That was the major reason for it (along with the team feats) So what am I to do about buffing the ac on the animal now if I leave its int alone? With my original plan it had 22 ac because of armor. I dont think I can get it that high without it.
Level 4 Level up for the AC will go into Int giving it 3 int and the ability to understand 1 language and take feats outside the Generic Animal list of feats.
You can put MW studded leather Barding on them from level 1 on. 0 ACP so they suffer no negatives for attacking or skills for not having the feat. Later upgrade it to +1 Mithral chain barding. Still gives 0 ACP and a +5 to AC with a very high dex to AC ratio. Add in your spells of Barkskin + Cat's Grace + the AC natural armor Progression and Dex bumps and your AC will have a very decent AC. Don't bother wasting feats on Armor proficiency on the Animal companion. Focus on things like Improved natural Attack, Power attack, combat reflexes. Later you can give him Stoneskin and have the layer defense on him. Or you can use Obscuring Mists to give him concelment while he takes advantage of Scent and/or Blind-fight (if you give it to him).
Yes to the Hunter giving the Animal Companion his Teamwork feats and still able to give the animal its normal feats. Hunter is the class that can get the strongest animal companion due to animal focus, Teamwork feats, and spells. (excluding summoner cause Eidolion is not a Animal Companion)
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Anything in the beginning works...what ever reach weapon drops for you to use...then use it lol.
Later Bardiche if you have access to a decent open market of buying. It has a 19-20 critical range. Later you will want a high crit range for Improved critical feat that leads into Seize the moment.
Getting your AC a Amulet of Mighty fist Keen+______ will help you Proc Seize the Moment on a regular.
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I don't think this is a good idea, partly what's been covered before but I really want to stress how not worth it this will be.
You want to prove a point to the group, that's okay. But what you're doing is that you add to their points. They probably won't think less of the Unchained Monk just because another thing is broken.There is also a problem with a disparity of optimization in groups, it's sometimes bigger than the difference between rolled stats. By min-maxing, you break this balance. Not only will you "out-shine" them, you'll also create a lot of problems for the DM, as he'll need to attempt to balance things according to you. All this risks the players' and the DM's enjoyment of the game and while you are prepared to move on and find a new group, don't ruin their fun until then.
So playing an optimized character is not a good idea because I will look to powerful? So your recommendation is to play a dumbed down character that wont benifit the party because I will hurt the others feelings or frustrate my DM? Maybe its just me but I dont see the logic in that. If I can show them what optimizing a character looks like that should excite them to want to do it as well. That in turn would lead to tougher more exciting challenges my dm can come up with. I just cant see people becoming mad because they want to play a "fun" build. Then when they get through half an adventure and are dying all the time they get mad at the dm saying its too hard. IdK just don't understand peoples logic.
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Breaking a Game by Building a functional character within the ruleset, with a focus on combat in a combat based game. I don't see your logic. are you one of those salty people who dislike people who like the game enough to think out their characters and builds to be functional?
Also if a player doesn't want to get better at what they are playing they are not players I want at my table. I do not want encounters scaled back to accommodate people who build poorly or play badly. Then I feel I am being given something without accomplishing it myself.
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I think the idea is to "blend-in" with power level of the group. If someome told me that the only way to play was to maximise DPR or spell DCs, I wouldn't want to sit with him on the table. Different people have different play styles, really. And you can't win an arms race with your DM.
Pathfinder is a team game, you're supposed to do it with your team.
Just one thing about your last two druids. Your feat load out is not legal.
Both precise strike and power attack require BaB 1 and since you had to have taken one of them at first level you would not qualify for one of them.
In your other build you have 2 feats at level one and one at level three but power attack requires BaB 1 and Craft Wondrous requires CL 3 so you could not have either at level 1.
I heavily recommend building a level one version of your planned character then leveling it to 2 and then to three to make sure your are legal.
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Just one thing about your last two druids. Your feat load out is not legal.Both precise strike and power attack require BaB 1 and since you had to have taken one of them at first level you would not qualify for one of them.
In your other build you have 2 feats at level one and one at level three but power attack requires BaB 1 and Craft Wondrous requires CL 3 so you could not have either at level 1.
I heavily recommend building a level one version of your planned character then leveling it to 2 and then to three to make sure your are legal.
He is starting at level 3. He will have a BaB of atleast +1. This is just like players who use the level 2 rework in PFS.
Below is a nice Druid build.
Able to Melee if needed, has a nice animal companion, and will focus on summoning. 1d3 Eagles is nice even at level 3.
Ed Dru
Human druid 3
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +9
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Defense
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AC 18, touch 12, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, +2 Dex, +2 shield)
hp 26 (3d8+9)
Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +6
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee mwk scimitar +7 (1d6+4/18-20)
Druid Spells Prepared (CL 3rd; concentration +6)
2nd—delay disease[ARG], delay poison
1st—cure light wounds, entangle (DC 14), goodberry
0 (at will)—create water, light, purify food and drink (DC 13), spark[APG] (DC 13)
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Statistics
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Str 19, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 11, Wis 17, Cha 10
Base Atk +2; CMB +6; CMD 18
Feats Augment Summoning, Power Attack, Spell Focus (conjuration)
Skills Climb +4, Handle Animal +6, Linguistics +1, Perception +9, Spellcraft +6, Survival +11, Swim +4
Languages Common, Druidic, Tien
SQ nature bond (tiger named animal companion), nature sense, trackless step, wild empathy +3, woodland stride
Combat Gear wand of endure elements (50 charges); Other Gear lamellar (leather) armor[UC], heavy wooden shield, mwk scimitar, 748 gp
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Special Abilities
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Animal Companion Link (Ex) You have a link with your Animal Companion.
Augment Summoning Summoned creatures have +4 to Strength and Constitution.
Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Share Spells with Companion (Ex) Can cast spells with a target of "you" on animal companion, as touch spells.
Spell Focus (Conjuration) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Trackless Step (Ex) You do not leave a trail as you move through natural surroundings.
Wild Empathy +3 (Ex) Improve the attitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy.
Woodland Stride (Ex) Move through undergrowth at normal speed.
Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.
Animal Companion
Tiger
N Medium animal
Init +8; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +6
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Defense
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AC 21, touch 14, flat-footed 17 (+4 armor, +4 Dex, +3 natural)
hp 16 (3d8+3)
Fort +5, Ref +8, Will +4
Defensive Abilities evasion
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Offense
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Speed 40 ft.
Melee bite +4 (1d6+2), 2 claws +4 (1d4+2)
Special Attacks rake (2 claws +4, 1d4+2)
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Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10
Base Atk +2; CMB +4; CMD 18 (22 vs. trip)
Feats Improved Initiative, Light Armor Proficiency
Tricks Attack, Attack, Attack Any Target, Defend, Down, Fetch, Fighting, Heel, Other Trick, Stay
Skills Acrobatics +6 (+10 to jump), Perception +6, Stealth +6
SQ attack any target, defend, fetch, fighting, heel, other trick
Other Gear chain shirt, cloak of resistance +1
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Special Abilities
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Attack Any Target [Trick] The animal will attack any creature on command.
Defend [Trick] The animal will defend you.
Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save.
Fetch [Trick] The animal will get a specific object.
Fighting [Trick] The animal has been trained to fight.
Heel [Trick] The animal will follow you.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Other Trick [Trick, Flank] The animal does something else you've trained it to do.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
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Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.
The only questionable thing is the cloak of resistance on the companion. Check with your GM to make sure it is ok.
Good luck.
@Fruian Thistlefoot
I was assuming we were talking general pathfinder rules here and I am not used to any rebuilds being allowed without spending the gold for retraining.
I am also used to a character having to be legal at all levels. Even in PFS if I rebuild before two my cleric cannot have Power attack.
Are you saying I could build a human 3/4 BaB character at level three with Power attack, Precise strike and Craft wondrous as my feats and that would be ok?
Edit: 748 GP left for whatever basic gear like clothes/cold weather gear and such.
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@Fruian Thistlefoot
I was assuming we were talking general pathfinder rules here and I am not used to any rebuilds being allowed without spending the gold for retraining.
I am also used to a character having to be legal at all levels. Even in PFS if I rebuild before two my cleric cannot have Power attack.
Are you saying I could build a human 3/4 BaB character at level three with Power attack, Precise strike and Craft wondrous as my feats and that would be ok?
In PFS if you rebuilt your cleric at level 2 and did not play him yet...you can rebuild him with power attack because a Level 2 Cleric has a +1 BaB by then. This was the normal with Magus builds using Dervish dancer they need 2 perform ranks and at level 2 they just rebuilt with 2 dance skill points and Dervish Dance.
So yes say you had DM credits to make a 3rd level character or you are joining a campaign at level 3...you can have 3 feats you listed. Tho Precise Strike is not really that great on a cleric or any character who does not have Solo tactics (Inquisitor) or like the Hunter...grants those teamwork feats to his AC. (Just remember no craft feats are allowed in PFS....but outside PFS Craft wonder is good on anyone who qualifies.)
Wow. That is not what I was told at all when I played PFS. Also just anecdotal and therefore very suspect on my part but I have never even heard this discussed before. Any links to discussions on this?
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Gone for another day and this thing blew up again. So my group actually got together last Friday (minus the DM) and went over plans for our characters. I decided to go with hunter focusing on teamwork feats. DM approved a lot of stuff. So to address some questions and concerns....
1) We are starting at lv 3 and not building progressively (ie...lv1 going to lv2) so power attack is ok and whatever else might be different then progressive building.
2) Dm has approved my raptor and the guy playing a monk is building a story with me about us being foster children that were found in the woods or whatever. We are both going to be playing oni-spawn fay. This allowed my stats to come out to (Str 19, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 13, Wis 19, Cha 8)
3) The other two players are actually excited to see how my build goes. The one that is going to be my foster brother is playing a flow monk and wanted to take some team feats to help boost his damage as well.
Again I know people are not meaning to sound like a-holes but you are when you come on here criticizing about optimizing. Please if you are not comfortable with this idea then don't comment. Talking about this being a good idea or not is not what this post is about.
@Jermey
Good for you. Hunter is fun! Hope you have a great game and lots of fun is had by all.
Teamwork feats of note for Damage:
Outflank
Distracting Charge
Friendly Fire Maneuvers (If anyone is using a reach build)
Paired Opportunist
Precise Strike
In my opinion Outflank is the best followed by paired opportunist.
Combine outflank with the menacing enchantment for +6 flanking fun.
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The other two players are actually excited to see how my build goes. The one that is going to be my foster brother is playing a flow monk and wanted to take some team feats to help boost his damage as well.
Awesome. A few Big ones he should look into getting is Outflank (+4 for Flanking) will help with him playing regular monk at +0 BaB. He can pick it up at level 3 and be doing well for himself flanking with either you or your Animal companion.
Might Suggest if he is going any type of Combat maneuvers the Coordinated Maneuvers (at the same time you get it @ lvl 9) will help him perform his maneuvers better when next to you or your AC. It also provides a +4 to break out of a grapple which is a good layer of defense to have when your overpowered in a Grapple situation.
Broken Wing Gambit is also another good one for him to take if he is interested in an attack provoking 2 or more AoO just for swing on someone in the group. And Provoked AoO resolve first. so the enemy might just kill themselves in the PCs "Zone of Death."
But he should at least take advantage of Outflank. He can easily perform an acrobatics to get into a real flanking position since he will not qualify for Pack flanking. (No Animal companion to qualify)
Again I know people are not meaning to sound like a-holes but you are when you come on here criticizing about optimizing. Please if you are not comfortable with this idea then don't comment. Talking about this being a good idea or not is not what this post is about.
This defiantly is a problem on these forums.
Good luck it seems this group is willing to learn and this is going to be a good experiment for them to participate in. And maybe in the future they will continue to improve and get better at Pathfinder. It will also help them realize some of their Ideas about game balance is off.
Ah outflank has a BAB 4 prerequisite so a monk cannot take it until level 6 so his level 7 feat.
I was assuming he meant chained monk as he is a flowing monk and no archetypes are legal with unchained.
Magic fang will help your companion as well!
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So the monk doesn't want me to waste a spell on magic fang so I am swapping that out for lead blades and carrying a great axe with me lol. With the team feats in place its going to be crazy lol.
Lead blades was for Hunter to get more damage...tho I recommend a Reach weapon over a Greataxe, tho either will do. I prefer to Stand behind the Animal companion and reach over them. It keeps the hunter safer.
Yeah Greater magic Fang is more for the Animal Companion. I tend to get Amulet of Mighty fists for my Companion. The cool thing about them is you can just put an Ability on them. This means I use the spell to Add the Static +1-5 to the Companion while the Amulet adds the special abilities like Menacing, Flaming, Keen, Holy.
But of the list I gave you the buffs for the AC are:
Cat's Grace (+4 Dex), Barkskin, Greater Magic Fang, Animal Growth, Freedom of Movement, and stone skin
On the List for the Hunter is:
Lead Blades, Cat's Grace, Barkskin, Freedom of Movement, and Stone Skin.
It is a Pretty balanced list of Buffs to give both you or the Animal Companion. And still leaving room for a few utility spells and Defensive spells.
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If your level 3 you should have:
Level 1 feat
Level 2 Outflank
Level 3 Feat
Level 3 Teamwork Feat
Also going to be Honest Precise Strike is not all that great in the scheme of things. +1d6 Precision damage. (Not Multiplied by a critical, Some enemies are immune, Concealment shuts it off) It a very small situational damage boost. Hardly worth it IMO. And unlike the new Unchained Rogue's fix to Sneak attack even partial concealment (20%) messes with it. It is basically treated like a Core Rogues sneak attack.
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No, it's the other way around most of the time: "It's 20 Int level 1 Wizard or GTFO. Rogue? Why don't you just play a commoner? The Fighter is just as bad, play something better!" - is not too hard to find here.
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Is this one of those confirmation bias things? Because I see plenty of both all the time. I don't know how you can miss the fact that in threads like this most of the discussion gets taken up with some version of "people who make pun-pun are definitely still roleplaying" vs "if you aren't taking skill focus(basketweaving) and pre-errata prone shooter then you are a rollplayer" (and look, I managed to caricature both sides - see, I can try to be unbiased).
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If your level 3 you should have:
Level 1 feat
Level 2 Outflank
Level 3 Feat
Level 3 Teamwork FeatAlso going to be Honest Precise Strike is not all that great in the scheme of things. +1d6 Precision damage. (Not Multiplied by a critical, Some enemies are immune, Concealment shuts it off) It a very small situational damage boost. Hardly worth it IMO. And unlike the new Unchained Rogue's fix to Sneak attack even partial concealment (20%) messes with it. It is basically treated like a Core Rogues sneak attack.
So the main reason for precise strike is because going raptor. at lv 7 he gets 5 main attacks with pounce. if all of them hit which they should, Im looking at 5d6 more damage on top of everything else. Being able to do a max of 30 more damage in one round is nice. However my thinking is only from a lower level knowledge. I have not gotten past lv 5 in any adventure yet. Also I do not see anywhere where it says concealment voids it out can you source that for me?
Feats that I have at 3: Outflank, Precise strike, Pack Flanking, Combat Expertise (for pack flank and some of the later tw feats)
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And if you want to talk optimization: Skip Combat Expertise, it doesn't belong in an optimized build (absolutely not in it self and barely ever as a prerequisit).
I would say that Precise Strike is worth it, though Paired Opportunist is probably a bit better, I usally see more AoOs than flanking at my table (they're both one of the better TW-feats anyway and you need to pick one at level 3). That also...
I need to take Combat Expertise for the pack flanking so I can sit behind AC and still get flanking. I thought about power attack but for what little it gives me im already doing alot of damage with teamwork feats.
