| Visitor777 |
So I have been looking into feinting and have found a plethora of opinions with very little substance. So I dug into the rules and abilities and looked for as much as I possible could to try and find a clearer picture of how it works. I will post everything I found, as well as my conclusions:
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Combat:
Feinting is a standard action. To feint, make a Bluff skill check. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + your opponent's base attack bonus + your opponent's Wisdom modifier. If your opponent is trained in Sense Motive, the DC is instead equal to 10 + your opponent's Sense Motive bonus, if higher. If successful, the next melee attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). This attack must be made on or before your next turn.
Bluff:
You can also use Bluff to feint in combat, causing your opponent to be denied his Dexterity bonus to his AC against your next attack. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + your opponent’s base attack bonus + your opponent’s Wisdom modifier. If your opponent is trained in Sense Motive, the DC is instead equal to 10 + your opponent’s Sense Motive bonus, if higher. For more information on feinting in combat, see Combat.
Thoughts and conclusions: Feinting is simple standard action. It denies the target their Dex bonus to AC against your next melee attack. It makes no mention of range on the initial feint however, therefore, feinting from range should be fine, but the attack must melee in order to benefit.
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Combat Maneuvers:
Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver.
Table:
Thoughts and conclusions: Feinting is clearly not a combat maneuver. Unlike combat maneuvers, it does not provoke attacks of opportunity, it is not associated with CMB or CMD, nor is it listed under combat maneuvers on the table, but is listed separately. Therefore it is not limited in the same ways a combat maneuver would be and can be performed at range.
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Trick Shot (Ex):
At 3rd level, an archer can choose one of the following combat maneuvers or actions: disarm, feint, or sunder. He can perform this action with a bow against any target within 30 feet, with a –4 penalty to his CMB. Every four levels beyond 3rd, he may choose an additional trick shot to learn. These maneuvers use up arrows as normal.
Clarification:
I wrote the APG fighter archetypes, and the implication I intended to convey was that you could both perform the feint and BENEFIT from the feint with your bow. It would seem a little silly to let them do the feint but not get any advantage from it, but if the RAW seems overly ambiguous and you're looking for RAI that's it.
Thoughts and conclusions: First, the attack that takes advantage of a successful feint is part of the feint. Think of it first thematically. If you are in a fight, feinting is like throwing a false punch to get your opponent to block one way while you attack another. You make him think you are attacking with one action, when in reality you are leading him right into blow. The bluff and the attack are two parts of a whole.
Now back to the rules, above it says trick shot allows you to perform the feint action (note it specifies action, not combat maneuver) within 30 feet. Well nothing limited us in feinting from range before according to the RAW. The clarification from the author implies that the wording "perform the feint action" means that you can perform AND benefit. So if we assume going forward, that anytime the rules say "perform the feint action" or something along those lines, it is referring to both the initial feint AND the follow up attack, everything becomes much clearer. As we continue, there will be more evidence to support this.
My second point from this section is rather self evident, Archer's with this class feature can perform the initial Bluff check to an unspecified range, but can only benefit from it directly within 30 feet. The last line of trick shot is a bit more ambiguous. It states that these maneuvers consume ammunition, whether that refers only to the combat maneuvers or includes feint is up for debate, but I will come back to it.
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Improved Feint (Combat):
Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise.
Benefit: You can make a Bluff check to feint in combat as a move action.
Moonlight Stalker Feint (Combat):
Prerequisite: Int 13, Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Moonlight Stalker, Bluff 6 ranks, darkvision or low-light vision racial trait.
Benefit: Once per round, against an opponent from whom you have concealment, you can spend a swift action to make a Bluff check to feint.
Greater Feint (Combat):
Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, base attack bonus +6, Int 13.
Benefit: Whenever you use feint to cause an opponent to lose his Dexterity bonus, he loses that bonus until the beginning of your next turn, in addition to losing his Dexterity bonus against your next attack.
Thoughts and conclusions: Further evidence that the initial Bluff check and the attack are two parts of a single feint action. Both Improved Feint and Moonlight Stalker Feint state explicitly that it is the Bluff check that takes the initial action to feint. While Greater Feint is very careful to state that the loss of Dex to AC is in addition to the benefit on your next attack. This heavily implies that that attack (or rather the loss to AC against it) is very much a part of the feint action as a whole.
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Attack Actions:
Actions with the attack subtype involve making at least one attack roll against an opponent or object.
Feint (Attack):
You use Bluff to attempt a feint against an opponent. If you succeed, that opponent is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC for the next attack you make against it this turn. If you have the Improved Feint feat, this action doesn't have the attack subtype.
Thoughts and conclusions: To be clear this is an optional system. According to these rules, without Improved Feint, you would need to make an attack roll on a the bluff check to feint. Again, optional rules. The reason I bring them up is to make a point more than anything else. The fact that Trick Shot (Ex) specifies the use of ammo and the fact that here, feinting without Improved Feint is an attack action heavily implies that you cannot Bluff an opponent if you can't hit it. This is left up to the GM to decide what that means.
For example, a Great Axe wielding Fighter attempts to feint you in melee range. The threat is clear, he can clearly interact with you to the point where you would be actively trying to avoid his attacks, and if one was a feint and you fell for it, suddenly you are dodging the wrong way, Dex bonus gone. If he was thirty feet away, he might be able to charge you, throw his axe, something. He is still a threat and could conceivably juke you. You see him coming from 200 feet away, do you really feel threatened to the point that you would actively dodge a percieved attack? Maybe he could throw that far, but there is no way he could get to you to follow up before it became clear he was bluffing, would a feint really work at that distance? Up to the GM.
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Final Thoughts, Conclusions, and Interactions:
Fully exploiting feinting and it's interactions requires an understanding that feinting is a 2 step process. First the bluff, then the attack. The initial bluff is limited by action economy. The benefit to your attack is limited by range. To make an effective feint build, you need to overcome these 2 limits.
Lets take feinting step by step in a few different scenarios.
You are a Rogue 35 feet from your target. You initiate a feint action with a Bluff check and succeed. The timer starts, you have through your next turn to finish the feint with the follow up melee attack. You can't get close enough and attack your first turn, but next turn you 5 foot step and attack. The lost Dex bonus applies to your first attack and you get Sneak Attack damage on it.
You are an Archer 60 feet away from your target. You initiate a feint action with a Bluff check and succeed. The timer starts, you have through your next turn to finish the feint with the follow up attack. You move 30 feet this turn, next turn you are within 30 feet and can full attack. The lost Dex bonus applies to your first attack.
You have a concealment for one turn due to an allies spell. You are an archer 60 feet away from your target. You swift action feint, move 30 feet closer, and attack. The lost Dex bonus applies to this attack.
For this one, keep in mind that the feint is in two parts, and the Dex bonus to AC is not lost until you finish the feint and attack the target.
You are an Archer, 60 feet away from your target. You successfully feint as a swift action move 30 feet closer, and attack. The lost Dex applies to this attack. You have now triggered Greater Feint and until the beginning of your next turn, the target loses his Dex bonus to AC. Your Rogue friend thanks you as he full attacks, getting Sneak Attack damage every hit.
You are an Archer, 60 feet away from your target. You feint as a move action and then move 30 feet closer. Your Rogue friend attacks, and is sad that he does not get Sneak Attack. Remember you have not caused your target to lose his Dex bonus to AC until you complete the feint action with an attack. Next turn comes around and you full attack. The target loses his Dex bonus to AC for your first attack and until you're next turn (Greater Feint was triggered by the first attack). You feel pretty good as you riddle him with arrows now that he can dodge none of your attacks. Your Rogue friend thanks you as he full attacks, getting Sneak Attack damage every hit.
You are an Archer, 70 feet away from your target. You successfully feint as a move action move 30 feet closer. The target moves 30 feet further away. You cannot get within 30 feet and attack. You are sad because the target keeps his Dex bonus as you make your attacks. Greater Feint is not triggered. Your Rogue friend is sad because he does not get Sneak Attack damage every hit. Everything is sad now.
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I hope you all found this helpful. Let me know if you found any errors or mistakes or if you have anything to add.
-Visitor