Feat paths to get a familiar, wich is better ?

[Gurior]

In my current campaign, I’m playing a scrollmaster wizard, an archetype that replaces the arcane bond class feature. I’m willing to spend some feat investment in order to regain it. At the moment, I have 2 open feats at level 1, then another on 3rd ,5th, etc.
So far, I found two ways of doing this, which are as follows:

First Path: Grab Iron will and
familiar bond at 1st level, and improved familiar bond on 3rd.
It’s a 3 feat investment for a full-familiar, or 2 feat if I’m ready to forgo most of the advantages of having one (wich I'm not). It allows carrying the little friend beginning on level 1, and gain the full advantages on level 3.

This path was initially my first choice, since as far as I knew it was the only one. However, I just discovered another way:

First, get Skill focus (any knowledge) to fulfill the next feat prerequisites. The other level 1 feat is unspent.
At level 3, grab Eldritch Heritage (Arcane bloodline).

This gives me the first level power of the associated sorcerer bloodline :

Arcane Bond (Su)::

At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level. Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object.

So, the second path only necessitates a 2-feat investment, but asks for a 13 Cha prerequisite. Although both end up with a full familiar at level 3, the second path gives me nothing until there.

However, considering the second path, I’m not sure how to consider my effective caster level both for the powers of the familiar, and for qualifying for the improved familiar feat.
Eldritch Heritage goes like : “ For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer.”

Howerver, the Arcane bond sorcerer power says : “ you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level. Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object. "

My question is this:
So… suppose I am a level 5 wizard. Am I considered a level 3 wizard (character level -2 ) for calculating familiar powers and minimum caster level for improved familiar, or do I follow the Arcane bond rule from the sorcerer, where my 5 Wiz levels stacks with my effective sorcerer level (3) ?

(Note : Altough, RAW states I would be “level 8” (5+3), I think RAI I should be considered 5, wich is my total Character level.)

edit : I don't know how to spell Which.

[DM_Blake]

Which witch?

;)

[Chess Pwn]

You're a lv3 wizard for your familiar abilities. But you're full caster level for the feat.

[DeathlessOne]

Since you traded away your Arcane bond class feature, you cannot use your actual wizard levels to determine what powers your familiar possesses. You will have to figure out what your effective sorcerer level is first.

Since your actual wizard levels mean squat (remember, a fighter can take this feat tree too), this means you have to figure out what your effective sorcerer level is before you can determine what your effective 'wizard' level is as far as your bloodline power is concerned. This means your sorcerer level is 5 (character level) - 2 = 3. So for the purposes of the Arcane Bond gained through Eldritch heritage, your effective wizard level for determining your familiar powers is 3.

Your effective 'wizard' level for determining the power of your familiar will always be lower than your character level, unless you invest heavily into the Eldritch Heritage feat tree, or you take Boon Companion.

[zanbato13]

Is variant multiclassing an option?
Depending on your GM, you could Variant Sorcerer with a bloodline familiar (mechanic, not bloodline power)

[Gurior]

Didn't even know about variant multiclassing. Reading about it right now.

In any case, thank you first the insigth.
After talking to my GM (and pointing to this thread), it seems an acceptable balance that
Path #1 cost three feats, but iron will is arguably better than skill focus (know.)
path #2 cost two feats, but familiar is at CL-2 for all intent and purposes, including qualifying for improved familiar.

I still haven't decided which way I'll go, but at least the question is settled.

Thanks !

[DeathlessOne]

zanbato13 wrote:

Is variant multiclassing an option?

If you choose to go with VMC, you will be losing out on 5 feats but depending on what bloodline you take, it could be worth it. And you can take ANY normal blood line, since the Familiar Folio introduced the concept of 'bloodline familiars'. You can trade out the first level bloodline power for a familiar.

Relevant link to rules

[Gisher]

If you are considering using VMC, Sorcerer isn't the only option.

Magus will get you an Arcane Pool, Spellstrike, and three Arcana. I consider those abilities to be worth five feats for a Wizard. At 7th level you can select the Familiar Arcana.

Witch gets you a familiar at 3rd level. The rest of the powers are pretty bad since the hexes are severely restricted, but you might find a few appealing.

[zanbato13]

A CMB guy with Wizard secondary might technically qualify for Knowledge Is Power.

[Gisher]

zanbato13 wrote:

A CMB guy with Wizard secondary might technically qualify for Knowledge Is Power.

VMC Wizard does give you access to Knowledge is Power. But not until 15th level.

[zanbato13]

Gisher wrote:

zanbato13 wrote:

A CMB guy with Wizard secondary might technically qualify for Knowledge Is Power.

VMC Wizard does give you access to Knowledge is Power. But not until 15th level.

Wizards can take discoveries as regular feats.

[Gisher]

The VMC options do not count as having levels in the class except where noted. A character with VMC Wizard is not a Wizard.

[Castilonium]

Worship Calistria. You can get a wasp familiar with only 1 feat, and it's one of the best in the game. A greensting scorpion (+4 initiative) that can fly.

[Hmm]

Castilonium wrote:

Worship Calistria. You can get a wasp familiar with only 1 feat, and it's one of the best in the game. A greensting scorpion (+4 initiative) that can fly.

Oh! I'd never heard of that one.... That's the smallest familiar feat path I've seen. Too bad it's not PFS legal.

[Kalindlara]

There's a trait from Distant Shores that counts as Iron Will for the purposes of the Familiar Bond feat.

Wait and see if it becomes PFS-legal. ^_^

[Manji-Kuu]

DM_Blake wrote:

Which witch?

;)

lol I read that and your photo just gives this Troll smile to the question.

Which witch? XD

[The Mortonator]

Hmm wrote:

Castilonium wrote:

Worship Calistria. You can get a wasp familiar with only 1 feat, and it's one of the best in the game. A greensting scorpion (+4 initiative) that can fly.

Oh! I'd never heard of that one.... That's the smallest familiar feat path I've seen. Too bad it's not PFS legal.

I was writing about Familiars for a guide thing and that was how I concluded it. Very good feat.

But, yea, the old Eldritch Heritage is how it used to be anyone would gain a familiar. Familiar Folio pulled a Opera on Familiars though so it's way easier. If you want a Familiar, either your class will have an archetype or you will have some easy way to get it.

If you don't worship Calistria though, Eldritch Heritage all the way. Familiar Folio upgraded that path hard. I'd much rather do it if at all possible to have 13 Cha.

[Gurior]

zanbato13 wrote:

A CMB guy with Wizard secondary might technically qualify for Knowledge Is Power.

Knowledge is power was already my reserved wizard bonus feat I was planning on selecting on 5th level, considering none other discovery nor metamagic feat nor item creations appealed to me at the moment.

Although I see your point, wizard is my main class, and I won't change that.

a (+5) bonus ot my CMB is nice, but will really Shine on my CMD.

I'm impressed about the wasp familiar ! Too bad I have no intention to play a chaotic Neutral, and my DM will never greenligth this easy option (which I'm fine with).

I suggested variant multiclassing. The approval is pending, but in the meanwhile I'm looking at my options. Thanks for suggestion, I'll check up what I can do with the arcanist or other sorcerer bloodlines :)

[Devilkiller]

VMC can be a nice way to pick up a familiar. You won't end up "behind" on feats until level 11 or 15, and you might get some other useful abilities too.

If your PC is human you could also consider taking the Focused Study alternate racial ability to help you qualify for Eldritch Heritage. Focused Study replaces the standard human bonus feat at 1st level with free Skill Focus feats at levels 1, 8, and 16. Assuming you can find 2-3 skills worth having a high modifier in this can really help ease the pain of Eldritch Heritage.

If you're worried about the RP aspect of not having the familiar at 1st level there are a bunch of ways to cover that. For instance the PC could:
- carry around a "magic egg" and wait for it to hatch at 3rd level
- have a regular pet animal and constantly feed it alchemical substances to help transform it into a familiar
- pray to a deity, ancestors, dark forces, etc for a helper (That Wasp Familiar feat once again has me thinking about making a PC named "The Scarlet Pimp Pernell")

I wonder how most people would rule on a PC with Eldritch Heritage and an arcane caster level qualifying for an Improved Familiar. Do you need to meet the level requirement with your effective Wizard level, your actual caster level in an arcane class, or possibly both? I'd probably allow either or.

[Gurior]

PC isn't human.

In fact, the whole group is playing a homebrewed race that was constructed all together for that specific campaign. Either way, "alternate racial trait" were outlawed in character creation.

I don't worry about the RP. we played 5 games so far (we're level 2), and there are so many players (9) that we are still discovering everybody's character.
Even if that wasn't the case, the GM is pretty lenient with allowing minor changes to the classes and care less about character continuity than about the players really playing what they want to do.

[Gisher]

Kalindlara wrote:

There's a trait from Distant Shores that counts as Iron Will for the purposes of the Familiar Bond feat.

Wait and see if it becomes PFS-legal. ^_^

Nice find! I guess you have to be from Anuli to use it even though it is a magic trait rather than a regional feat.

[Gurior]

Good morning, all !

Just an update:

After exploring my option (and there were a lot of those !) I chose to variant multiclass sorcerer (destined bloodline), and apply the bloodline familiar, replacing my "1st" level bloodline power.

So I get the familiar on level 3 (counting my full wizard level for its statistics), and unlock the other bloodline powers a bit later on.

Second choice was variant multiclassing Magus. The Arcane pool class features stacks really well with the scrollmaster's ability to treat magical scrolls as magic weapons.

Party : Hey, john, We have to banish this imprison demon back to its plane, here, you're the only one who can read the Scroll of banishement we found. Go ahead.

John rolls the scrolls in a tight shape. It's now a +3 reach vorpal short sword. John decapitates the Demon, and gives the scroll back to the Party.

John : There you go

Too bad variant multiclassing with magus gives only so few "magus arcana". They're are a lot of good choices, but I only get one at 7, 15, and 19th level. And I would want to use the 7th one for the familiar, so...

Anyway, good day to you all, and thanks for the help !