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Hey, got a couple questions now that I've Game Mastered my first PFS module. First of all, in the We Be Goblins Too chronicle doc it specifically says:
Because We Be Goblins Too! is shorter than most
Pathfinder Modules, playing the adventure from
beginning to end earns a player 1 XP and 1 Prestige
Point. The GM likewise earns 1 XP and 1 Prestige Point
for running the entire module.
The question is because when I double checked the entery after the VO for the convention reported (I'd forgotten to write the event code on my own GM chronicle) I noticed it was awarding me 2 prestige to the character I'm applying the chronicle to, not 1. Is this a change since the chronicle doc was made or a mistake by the system? I'm honestly confused here since I thought I'd have a total of 7 fame/prestige for Kahel after GMing and applying the chronicle to that character, not 8.
Also, I know if the players never find something you cross it off from the chronicle, such as the Owlbear Companion boon if they don't find the owlbear eggs. Do I still get that boon on my GM chronicle even though the players didn't get it? The Pathfinder Society Guild Guide is a bit confusing on this issue. It implies I have to pick one boon to get if there's multiple. So how does this work?
Also, does the GM's chronicle still grant access to the treasures for purchases or do I need to cross those off?
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Though I haven't played that module, I understand Free RPG Day modules grant 1 PP except for any special boons that may give more, so it may be a reporting error. You should treat the physical chronicle signed by the GM (yourself) as the primary record for the character it's assigned to. I'm not sure whether they count as scenarios (1) or modules (2) for table numbers.
Your GM chronicle rewards are never affected by what the players did or received. You can choose any of the boons that your character could have got with the best possible performance. If a player could only pick a limited number from a list of boons, the GM can (but is not required to) also pick that many rewards.
The GM chronicle grants access to the items for the subtier of the character to whom you apply it.
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Thanks, was thinking it was a reporting error since the instructions specifically said I only get 1 Prestige due to it being a shorter adventurer. Since it IS a module I know I get 2 tables of credit though.
Still, good to get confirmation.
EDIT: And I'm soo happy I was able to get a legal table to run it. Kahel can now afford a mithral chain shirt... Once I get 2 more Fame. Or maybe just spend 2 PP for darkleaf studded leather now then enchant it once I get the fame needed to buy 1000g items. I'm still debating on which would be a better option for me.
Edit Too: Wait, darkleaf studded leather costs 775 gold, just out of the price range for buying with prestige. Dang.
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What character of the GM's do you apply the sheet for the scenario or module ran? Does it have to be one that hasn't completed it before, or can it be any character of appropriate level?
No character can get credit for the same scenario twice.
For assigning credit, you have three choices:
- Apply credit to an in-tier PC
- Assign the credit to a lower-level PC, to be applied as soon as it hits the lowest level for the scenario
- Apply the credit immediately to a 1st-level PC, with the gold reward reduced to 500gp/1398gp (depending on whether the chronicle is worth 1 or 3 XP). This choice is only relevant if the chronicle isn't tier 1-X.
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What character of the GM's do you apply the sheet for the scenario or module ran? Does it have to be one that hasn't completed it before, or can it be any character of appropriate level?
The answer to this question is spelled out quite clearly in the PFS RP Guild Guide, pages 38–39 . This short rules document is pretty much mandatory reading.
“Full credit” means the GM gets the following: 1 XP for the scenario, 100% of the Max Gold for the subtier most appropriate to the GM’s PC, and 2 PP (or, for a slow advancement track character, 1/2 XP, 1 PP, and 50% of the Max Gold for the subtier most appropriate to the GM’s PC).
The GM may select any special boons bestowed by a Chronicle sheet, such as free magical treasure, regional boons, or future bonus die rolls. The GM does not get a Downtime.
[...]
The subtier for which a GM’s character receives credit depends on the character’s level. If a GM with a 1st-level rogue runs a Tier 1–5 scenario using Subtier 1–2, she takes a Subtier 1–2 Chronicle sheet for her 1st-level rogue. If she instead runs a Tier 1–5 scenario using Subtier 4–5, she still takes a Subtier 1–2 Chronicle sheet, as her PC clearly falls within the lower subtier.
If the GM with a low-level character runs any higher tier scenarios that don’t include a subtier for her 1st-level rogue, she takes the lowest subtier Chronicle sheet from that scenario and holds it for her PC. Then, once her PC achieves the appropriate level for that Chronicle sheet, it is immediately applied. For example, if a GM with a 1st-level rogue runs a Tier 5–9 scenario, she would take a Subtier 5–6 Chronicle sheet (the lowest subtier for that tier) for running the scenario and set it aside. Once her rogue reaches 5th level, she can immediately apply the Chronicle sheet to her character. This means that GMs’ characters can potentially level up in bursts.
A GM who receives a Chronicle sheet that indicates her character is between subtiers must always receive the Out-of-Subtier gold value and access to items and boons of the subtier the adventure was played at.
A GM may assign credit for running an adventure in any of the same ways a player can, and must follow the same rules as a player when applying credit to a character. When you choose to take a Chronicle sheet for GM credit, you must decide which of your characters receives the Chronicle sheet when you fill out the tracking sheet for that table. You must apply Chronicle sheets in the order they are received
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The GM may select any special boons bestowed by a Chronicle sheet, such as free magical treasure, regional boons, or future bonus die rolls. The GM does not get a Downtime.
This is the only part that confuses me as far as "What does the GM get?"
I understand I basically get all the boons, but am I limited if the boon is Faction specific? For example, I recently played an adventure with rewards only applicable to Liberty's Edge members. Would I only get that boon by applying a GM chronicle to a Liberty's Edge character?
Also, the Edge-only reward was two separate boons, you only got one and which it was was determined by a choice made at the end. Would I get both of them? Or choose between them?
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I understand I basically get all the boons, but am I limited if the boon is Faction specific? For example, I recently played an adventure with rewards only applicable to Liberty's Edge members. Would I only get that boon by applying a GM chronicle to a Liberty's Edge character?
Yes, only Liberty's Edge.
Also, the Edge-only reward was two separate boons, you only got one and which it was was determined by a choice made at the end. Would I get both of them? Or choose between them?
Pick the one you want. A similar example is a recent special where each player would get one of six boons; the GM has to pick one (he doesn't get all six).
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I understand I basically get all the boons, but am I limited if the boon is Faction specific? For example, I recently played an adventure with rewards only applicable to Liberty's Edge members. Would I only get that boon by applying a GM chronicle to a Liberty's Edge character?Yes, only Liberty's Edge.
Also, the Edge-only reward was two separate boons, you only got one and which it was was determined by a choice made at the end. Would I get both of them? Or choose between them?Pick the one you want. A similar example is a recent special where each player would get one of six boons; the GM has to pick one (he doesn't get all six).
What about for something like the We Be Goblins Too? That gives 2 boons, one that is always awarded, the other the players can miss out on. My understanding of the guide is I have to chose which of the two I get as the GM. While the players could get both, if they fulfilled the conditions for the 2nd boon.
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I did, and had questions because I didn't quite understand what it said. Page 39 of the guild guide says:
The GM may select any special boons bestowed by a
Chronicle sheet, such as free magical treasure, regional
boons, or future bonus die rolls. The GM does not get a
Downtime.
This implies you only ever get ONE boon from the chronicle as a GM. So I wanted to double check. That way I know if I have to cross any off from my GM chronicle.
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Again: Read the PFS RP Guild Guide. The answer to these questions is in there.
Yes, the Guild Guide is a useful resource and I would agree mandatory reading. I have a very nice copy printed out, in color, and bound.
It also reads like stereo instructions in places. There is often unclear language. For instance the use of the word "trait" in two distinctly separate character aspects. Which even Paizo admits wasn't the best idea. Or that it calls out to a dozen different other books or documents that you need to have open in front of you.
Most people aren't here because they are too lazy to read. They are here because they want to make sure what they read and understood is actually the legal rules.
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Most people aren't here because they are too lazy to read. They are here because they want to make sure what they read and understood is actually the legal rules.
If so, communication is made easier by when those asking questions acknowledge the sources they've searched and the portions that are confusing them.
It makes for a better question and a more focused answer. It also shows respect for the audience.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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TomG, go look up thread.
The GM may select any special boons bestowed by a Chronicle sheet, such as free magical treasure, regional boons, or future bonus die rolls. The GM does not get a Downtime.This is the only part that confuses me as far as "What does the GM get?"
I understand I basically get all the boons, but am I limited if the boon is Faction specific? For example, I recently played an adventure with rewards only applicable to Liberty's Edge members. Would I only get that boon by applying a GM chronicle to a Liberty's Edge character?
Also, the Edge-only reward was two separate boons, you only got one and which it was was determined by a choice made at the end. Would I get both of them? Or choose between them?
If so, communication is made easier by when those asking questions acknowledge the sources they've searched and the portions that are confusing them.
That is exactly what they did.
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Yeah, in my original post I did mention that my questions were because the Guild Guide's rules were confusing due to ambiguous language. Reading it, I was getting the impression as the GM I could pick one boon or item from the chronicle's equipment list. Which I was fairly sure was wrong due to talking with my VO. But I wanted to be sure, so came here to ask.
Being told "read the guild guide to answer your question" doesn't help when reading the guild guide is what raised the questions.
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@Flite: My comment was general to the forums, not specific to this thread. It was in response to a similar generality from Allerum ("Most people ...").
There have been several good questions in this thread that have referenced language in the Guide. Daniel has done a good job of this. But there have been a couple of questions from others that were pretty clearly answered by the guide. It was those I was responding to.
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@Flite: My comment was general to the forums, not specific to this thread. It was in response to a similar generality from Allerum ("Most people ...").
There have been several good questions in this thread that have referenced language in the Guide. Daniel has done a good job of this. But there have been a couple of questions from others that were pretty clearly answered by the guide. It was those I was responding to.
I did use the generality there. I acknowledge that some people likely do not read any material before just asking. Being fairly new to the Paizo forums I haven't encountered a great deal of people that want more than just clarification or assurance.
If I might aplogize now for going off reservation, but it's in hope of putting the thread back on the rails over all. It might be akin to calling tech support for one's home internet. Now personally, being that I do I.T. for my job I try to troubleshoot my stuff and then call the phone guys when I'm stumped or maybe just not thinking of something. Now the phone guy then starts going through his check list. The check list is stuff I've looked at before, but I know the list exists because there are whole scores of people that don't what is up and call immediately. So my choices are to get annoyed and tell him I tried all that, do the whole laundry list, or let him do his check list as fast as possible to get into stuff that hasn't occurred to me. With that in mind when certain people call me at work I know some of them are going to be clueless and some are just looking for a fresh set of eyes.
I can't speak for everyone. In my case, some questions I post will just be a quick, "oh hey...", but I am not a flippant gamer. However I know some people have their check lists. In a way that is completely zen about it, I want to address anyone's checklist of at least me. I own many of the Pathfinder books in hardback or PDF. I have printed out and read, at least twice, both the Guild Guide and the Additional Resources current PDFs. I am new two Pathfinder Society but I've played Pathfinder for a couple years now. Before that I was a D&D player back far enough to have an original Deities and Demigods manual with the then illegal Cthulhu Mythos. I was a Hearld Level GM for RPGA before Wizards turned it into DCI. I've played half a dozen other systems. It's likely because of these reasons that I can't quite get my head around a rule, or misunderstand one based on how a previous system handled it.
Maybe it's the optimist in me, but I want to believe the case is similar for, a purposeful generality, most of the people asking questions. I don't at all resent TomG's desire for people to do the legwork and read the material though. Prepared and enthusiastic players and GMs make for better games. I just want to ere on the side of that we're all gamers just looking to have a good time.
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Yeah, I know what you mean Allerum. When I have a rules question I first try searching the rule books. Then if I can't find the answer, or the answer is ambiguous I go to a forum like this if needed. For instance I was having trouble finding the rules on non-lethal damage, so asked my lodge's VO for clarification on them.
And while not a tech support person myself, I do find myself getting frustrated when the TS person I'm talking to goes "Did you try restarting the computer? Did you try unplugging the modem, waiting a minute, then plugging it in? Did you try preforming a rain dance?"
Well, maybe not the rain dance. That would be amusing for a tech support person to have you try. But this isn't my first rodeo. Power cycling the modem, router, and restarting the computer are the first things I try.
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And I'm just a curmudgeon with a handful of bad experiences under my belt. (Including people who didn't know there is a Guide.)
I used to supervise a help desk in a past life. I had one employee would *never* look anything up. He would always ask a colleague or a supervisor (me) what to do. For what seemed like Every. Single. Call. As I more paid attention to the pattern of his questions, I realized he was even asking the same question again and again over several days. It was just easier for him to ask than to search or to remember (or to care). It was *incredibly* frustrating.
So, yeah, I'm grumpy, and I appreciate that no offense was taken. I greatly appreciate it when someone mentions the work they did searching as part of asking questions. That behavior is too often unrewarded. (So, thanks to those in this thread that did so.)
By the same token, I think the best answers reference the Guide (or other resources, as required). It reinforces its usefulness and helps avoid opinion-based answers. It requires more work from those responding, which may be another reason I expect evidence of effort by the questioner as well.
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And I'm just a curmudgeon with a handful of bad experiences under my belt. (Including people who didn't know there is a Guide.)
I used to supervise a help desk in a past life. I had one employee would *never* look anything up. He would always ask a colleague or a supervisor (me) what to do. For what seemed like Every. Single. Call. As I more paid attention to the pattern of his questions, I realized he was even asking the same question again and again over several days. It was just easier for him to ask than to search or to remember (or to care). It was *incredibly* frustrating.
I've known people like that too. In fact, I knew one guy who thought power cycling his modem would cause things to reset to the point the ISP would have to reinitialize it from his end, even though EVERY tech support call he ever made started with "Unplug your modem to power cycle it". He thought power cycling meant going outside and jiggling (or something not sure what) the wire leading from the satellite into the home.
To be fair, he was also 100% convinced you should never update Windows or your anti-virus program because that puts viruses on your computer. In fact he was so scared his antivirus program updating was adding viruses, he uninstalled it. Thus allowing viruses to easily infect his computer.
Anyway, I understand why you prefer referring to the Guild Guide. It is a good document, and it does answer all your questions. Just not always as clearly as it could. Some of the language in it is... ambiguous. But most is pretty strait forward.
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Yeah, I did. Was hesitent to finish applying the chronicle to Kahel till I knew one way or the other about the prestige and boons. Only 2 more fame and I can start getting my magic mithral chain shirt.... one step at a time.
Not to start up another conversation, but Fame has nothing to do with when you can purchase a +1 mithral chain shirt. Mithral is an always available material and +1 armor is also always available. If you have the money, you can buy it whenever you want, without needing to meet the Fame purchasing requirements.
All basic armor, gear, items, and weapons from Chapter 6 of the Core Rulebook, including Small and Large-sized items. This .. does include equipment made from the other special materials, such as alchemical silver and cold iron (see the Special Materials section on page 154 of the Core Rulebook). All mundane (completely nonmagical) weapons, armor, equipment, and alchemical gear found in any other source that is legal for play are considered always available.
+1 weapons (2,000 gp + 300 for the masterwork weapon
cost + item cost)
• +1 armor (1,000 gp + 150 for the masterwork armor cost
+ item cost)
• +1 shields (1,000 gp + 150 for the masterwork armor
cost + item cost)
• Potions and oils of 0- or 1st-level spells at caster level
1st (50 gp or less)
• Scrolls of 0- or 1st-level spells at caster level 1 (50 gp
or less)
• Wayfinder (50% discount—250 gp; see page 299 of The
Inner Sea World GuideBeyond the gear noted above, your character is restricted to purchasing additional items from his accumulated Chronicle sheets, or by capitalizing on his fame.
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It's the purchasing limit of 1500 gold at fame 9 that's the limiting factor. Mithral chain shirt costs 1100 gold, and adding a +1 enhancement to a masterwork item costs 1000 gold. I could afford both. But I don't have the fame to buy gear of that value. I'd have already gotten the mithral chain shirt if it was 750 gold by spending prestige. But I can't, so I didn't. I could get a masterwork chain shirt, but it's the halved weight and reduced (negated) ACP that I really want a mithral chain shirt for. My Str is only 6 with that character after all.
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My understanding of the amount you can spend on things comes from the following passage on page 26 of the PFS GUild Guide:
While Fame and Prestige Points (PP) are related, they
represent two different things within a faction and serve
different purposes. Fame is a non-expendable number
that functions similarly to an ability score—the higher
your Fame, the greater your renown. Higher Fame scores
unlock resources that can be purchased from your faction
with Prestige Points and increase the maximum cost of
items you can purchase with gold. If Fame represents
the character’s overall reputation within a faction, then a
character’s Prestige Points represent what her faction owes
her in terms of favors, boons, and rewards.
Thus I can always buy a mithral chain shirt (or +1 mithral chain shirt) without needing a chronicle that grants access to one. But I still can't buy a mithral chain shirt till I have enough fame to allow a 1100 gold purchase, and can't outright buy a +1 mithral chain shirt till I have enough fame to allow a 2100 gold purchase. And until you get 5 fame you can't buy anything with a cost above 9 silver and 9 copper after character creation. Unless it's part of your rebuild by selling your bought equipment back at full value.
If I'm reading that entry wrong, mind explaining how I'm reading it wrong?
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Always Available Items
You may always purchase the following items or
equipment so long as you’re in an appropriately sized
settlement (see above).
[list cut]
Beyond the gear noted above, your character is
restricted to purchasing additional items from his
accumulated Chronicle sheets, or by capitalizing on his
fame. Weapons, armor, equipment, magic items and so
on that are outside of these lists are not available for
purchase at any time.
the section you quoted applies only to stuff not on that list
(Wait, you really thought that you could not buy extra arrows until you hit level 2? That is really going to make it hard to play a 1st level archer...)
By the way, always available and fame limits apply to your starting gear. How have you been equipping your characters?
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Beyond the gear noted above, your character is restricted to purchasing additional items from his accumulated Chronicle sheets, or by capitalizing on his fame. Weapons, armor, equipment, magic items and so on that are outside of these lists are not available for purchase at any time.
As you can see, you only apply the Fame limits to items that are not Always Available. Mithral and +1 armors are Always Available.
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(Wait, you really thought that you could not buy extra arrows until you hit level 2? That is really going to make it hard to play a 1st level archer...)
Uhm, buy 3 or 4 quivers of arrows initially and probably not run out before having 3 scenarios under the character's belt?
By the way, always available and fame limits apply to your starting gear. How have you been equipping your characters?
My understanding from talking to the VO for my region was that your initial 150 gold for buying starting gear didn't run into fame limits, but afterwords once you start playing you do. So I'd only been restocking consumables like trail rations and torches till I had 5 fame. Then again he's not that good at explaining things beyond a general "it works". When I asked him about how he setup Paint for printing out maps, his answer was rather vague.
Beyond the gear noted above, your character is restricted to purchasing additional items from his accumulated Chronicle sheets, or by capitalizing on his fame. Weapons, armor, equipment, magic items and so on that are outside of these lists are not available for purchase at any time.As you can see, you only apply the Fame limits to items that are not Always Available. Mithral and +1 armors are Always Available.
Not disputing that it's always available. What I'm trying to understand is how the Fame purchese cap affects it. Because I've read a post regarding upgrading equipment that said that upgrading a masterwork weapon to a +1 weapon was still restricted by fame for if you can spend that much.
Wait, looking for the post and rereading it.
*frowns in thought*
Hmm, yeah must have been misreading it. Still, the Guild Guide is kind of vague on that and implies even 'always available' stuff is still limited by fame amount. Damn, that means I could have had my mithral chain shirt after the second scenario. That's it, before we start tomorrow I'm buying a +1 mithral chain shirt and selling my current regular chain shirt. With 6 Str, I need the lighter weight for armor. And the extra point of armor doesn't hurt either.
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Always Available Items
You may always purchase the following items or
equipment so long as you’re in an appropriately sized
settlement (see above).
[list cut]
Beyond the gear noted above, your character is
restricted to purchasing additional items from his
accumulated Chronicle sheets, or by capitalizing on his
fame. Weapons, armor, equipment, magic items and so
on that are outside of these lists are not available for
purchase at any time.
Beyond the gear noted above, meaning everything except the always available. That's exactly why it's called "always available", because anyone can buy it at any time whether they have one game, or one hundred. Always available ignores game requirements, no exceptions.
If your VO told you otherwise then one of two things is true
1) The VO was simply wrong
2) You misunderstood
I hope I don't sound rude, but I'm leaning towards #2 simply because I'd hope a VO wouldn't be wrong about one of the most important parts of character building in PFS.
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As I mentioned, he's rather vague when explaining things. That said, he did specifically state that a mithral chain shirt requires 9 fame due to being a special material. Didn't make sense to me considering it said all special materials other then dragonhide were always available. But when the regional coordinator for your area says it's one way, kinda hard to argue with it. I figured it didn't matter since one more session and I'll have 9 favor anyway.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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You have to meet the Fame requirement for the item you are upgrading to. There is no Fame requirement for a +1 mithral shirt or a +1 weapon. (Unless it's a +1 gun, I suppose.)
Yeah. Getting a gun, especially a double barrel, to +1 is painful, especially since until you do, if you go all out there is a 2% chance per round that your gun is destroyed...
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Asked him again today before the session. This is what the VO told me.
Mithral chain shirt: always available, no fame needed
+1 chain shirt: always available, no fame needed
+1 mithral chain shirt: NOT always available due to being made of mithral AND enchanted.
I decided not to fight about it and just got the mithral chain shirt. Once at 9 fame I'll enchant it. Annoyingly we didn't get the 2nd Prestige due to not asking the right questions once, and the person who had a vital clue ignoring everyone saying "This is suspicious, that note you found also implicates that guy as working with these bandits".
He failed to realize as a player every single clue given was actually a clue, even when the GM was making a point of calling attention to the same clue over and over. Even when at the end I told him (in character) "What about that note you found" Show it to her." He didn't realize that was in fact a clue that implicated the real badguy, thus never showed it to the person who we should have given it to.
So at least 1 more session. Meh, annoying but I can deal with it.
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Venture-Captain, Texas—Waco
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Asked him again today before the session. This is what the VO told me.
Mithral chain shirt: always available, no fame needed
+1 chain shirt: always available, no fame needed
+1 mithral chain shirt: NOT always available due to being made of mithral AND enchanted.
Your VO is flat wrong. A +1 mithral chain shirt is always available and therefore not limited by the Fame table.
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As I said, not worth fighting over. I can get it enchanted after the next session. And till then a +1 to AC probably isn't going to be that super useful. Not with the way he's been rolling. It's not like having 17 or 18 AC has as much impact as going from 24 to 26 AC at level 2. Or even going from 18 to 22 AC like my core monk does if he drinks a mage armor potion.
And might I say, the aerokinetic elemental defense is NOT that helpful if you can't chose to take burn to improve it. 20% miss chance on non-energy ranged attacks sounds great, but it actually rarely helps out. Or at least it didn't yesterday. Kinda wishing I'd had the water elemental defense instead.
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It's definitely not worth fighting over, but I would certainly find a few minutes before or after to say "Hey, would you please show me where that rule is? I keep reading the Guide and can't find anything that says this item isn't always available".
It doesn't seem like a big deal for your one item, but if he's giving you this incorrect information, he's giving it to others and he needs to be corrected.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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I don't think asking to see the relevant section of the guide is going to help - the VO in question is choosing to interpret the rules that say "+1 armor is always available" and "special materials are always available" as being an exhaustive list. As such, seeing as there isn't an entry that says "+1 armor made of special materials is always available", he's disallowing it.
But I fully agree that perceived authority figure such as a VO should not be spreading misinformation. He needs to be made aware of the fact that he is wrong. And, as others have said, if he's wrong about such a fundamental rule, what other misinterpretations of the rules is he spreading? This is not good for organised play in the area.
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Got an email yesterday from the VO. He admitted he'd looked up the rule again, and realized he'd been giving bad info on that subject. Not that I can blame him. He IS the regional coordinator, and constantly bouncing from town to town, convention to local PFS event. Not to mention fielding questions from who knows how many people on any given day. In fact when me and a friend told him we're more then willing to GM now and then, he expressed relief.
So I'll buy the +1 enchantment at the start of next session and be done with it (for now).