Shaman or Oracle

[IgnisCaelum]

A friend is going to be running a game of Carrion Crown in a few weeks and I'm trying to figure out a character/class to play. I don't know what the others are wanting to do, and I like to plan out ahead of time, so I am making a few options.

I was wondering which would be better suited for a Carrion Crown game. I am wanting a charismatic character that can work as a face, but also can have an effect battle. I am thinking of also possibly acting as a healer for the party if they need it.

Things I am interested in for Oracle are the Heavens and life mysteries. The charisma focus is nice, and it seems to be better in a healing manner, but I'm not so sure how it would go in a battle setting. For the curses I would probably go with haunted.

For the Shaman I like the Heavens spirit, but the life one doesn't seem that great. It isn't focused on charisma, but the adaptability is nice and could be useful for when I need to battle.

I would also appreciate advice on what I should do with the ability points. I am presuming we are doing a 15 point buy, we haven't had any confirmation yet.

As far as races go I am not wanting to do anything too out there, considering the setting isn't the most open minded setting, most of the core races or races that can pass as human are fine though.

(I also have a flame dancer dirge bard drawn up, but I'm not set on that idea.)

[Melkiador]

Shaman
Pros:
* Very flexible if you make the right choices.
* Very powerful at high level.
* Good healer, if you build for it.
Cons:
* Very weak at level 1.
* Very MAD when using the "right choices"

Oracle
Pros:
* Fairly flexible when using the Spirit Guide archetype
* Fairly SAD, being able to use Charisma for many things
* Makes an even better healer, if you build for it.
* More evenly powerful
Cons:
* Spontaneous casting isn't as flexible.

[Eltacolibre]

Oracle is better for face stuffs. Heavens mostly rely on one trick, color spray and other spells like that infinite scaling, you need to get your charisma as high as possible to enjoy the benefit of it.

Problem tho: Carrion Crown has quite a few undead enemies, which means they are immune to a lot of heavens mystery trick.

Life might be the better choice but it does like some offensive options, burned curse might help with getting some offensive spells.

Shaman on the other hand can adapt every day with the wandering spirit, but at 15 point buy, don't think you will get the most out of it and will just end up being a caster, Shaman works best when they can combine some martial abilities with debuffing, at least imo.

[Imbicatus]

Heavens oracle with a one level dip in Undead Sorcerer.

[Hmm]

The dip works really well. If you don't like the first level power of undead sorcerer you can go tattooed sorc and get a familiar that can merge with you.

[Frag Bait]

Best of both worlds. Oracle with a spirit guide archetype. I'm finding it to be an excellent healer who can mix it up if the healing gets boring

[Rory]

IgnisCaelum wrote:

I was wondering which would be better suited for a Carrion Crown game. I am wanting a charismatic character that can work as a face, but also can have an effect battle. I am thinking of also possibly acting as a healer for the party if they need it.

Battlin' Face the Life Oracle

S: 14 D: 12 C: 13 I: 10 W: 10 Ch: 16 (15 pt human) - melee type
S: 10 D: 12 C: 13 I: 10 W: 10 Ch: 18 (15 pt human) - caster type

(caster type is SLOW GOING until 4th level, Intimidate is a useful action)

Traits:
Fate's Favored (+1 luck bonus to all luck effects)
Reactionary (+2 Init)

Revelation:
Channel (1st)
Energy Body (3rd)
Life Link (7th)

Feats:
Selective Channel (human)
??? (1st)

Strategy:

Your healing prowess will be primarily NON SPELLS. Channel is obvious, but Energy Body is an exponential increasing healing ability as well (and later is good versus undead, sneak attacks, poisons, paralysis and critical hits). You'll rarely need to worry about healing hitpoint damage with spells, even though you can at will.

Focus all of the rest of your resources (spells, feats, equipment, etc.) into specializing whatever you will besides healing. The Flagbearer feat is very pro party.

Optional (but recommended): The Spiritual Guide archetype is all sorts of goodness. You can adapt yourself to meet whatever your party happens to be missing on the fly.

[Cap. Darling]

Both are good. Oracle have spontanious casting, and revalations but a sligthly better Spell list (unless you are human and have decent int, wis and Chr then shaman win that one)
Shaman have prepared casting and hexes that allow you to be a powerfull debuffer or sleeper.
I think a Dual cursed oracle if you go life or a spirit guide oracle with a one level dip in tattooed undead sorcerer are good options.
I have a life shaman and she is great, using the hair hex in combat, but she is a slow starter for Real power.

[Renegadeshepherd]

Oracles that rely heavily on revelations versus shamans who rely on their watered down revelations are ALWAYS better. Oracles also have a slightly better list. So a shaman that focuses on hexes or the spells it has over oracle will be happier. But I think spirit guide oracle is a great choice for this.

If you want to be a mouth a human is best for that with their silver tongue alternate racial trait and even focused study is a worthy consideration.

[andreww]

Be the Master of Life and Death.

Spirit Guide Oracle of Bones. Bind to the Life Spirit. You can grab the Revelation allowing you to Command Undead. You get to Channel Energy at level 4. You can pick up Turn Undead if you want or better yet Feats that add useful stuff to Channel like rerolls or freedom of movement.

Be a half elf. Early on boost one of your Revelations using the Elf FCB. Later start grabbing extra spells known using the Human FCB. Gain access to Paragon Surge. Use it to grab situational spells when needed or Revelations with Extra Revelation.

[IgnisCaelum]

I think I might go with the melee life oracle Rory suggested. I can use feats to make myself more versatile, especially with a human. I can also be quite good with the charisma based abilities and I can always boost it with an item too.

would a dip in undead sorcerer still be recommended for this? Also, what curse should I use for this build?

[andreww]

IgnisCaelum wrote:

would a dip in undead sorcerer still be recommended for this? Also, what curse should I use for this build?

No, dipping with an Oracle is generally a terrible idea. You are already a level behind on spell access, dropping another level means the prepared casters are a whole spell level ahead of you for your entire career.

As far as Curses go don't take Blackened if you want to go melee, I would avoid Clouded Vision or Wrecker. Legalistic has the least downsides and Haunted adds some very useful spells to your list.

[Imbicatus]

andreww wrote:

IgnisCaelum wrote:

would a dip in undead sorcerer still be recommended for this? Also, what curse should I use for this build?

No, dipping with an Oracle is generally a terrible idea. You are already a level behind on spell access, dropping another level means the prepared casters are a whole spell level ahead of you for your entire career.

For a heavens oracle this is blatantly untrue. The heavens oracle depends on spamming a first level spell, and undead sorcerer has the same spell on the list with the same casting stat. The sorcerer level allows you several extra castings of color spray per day, and allows you to affect humanoid undead with it.

It's a very powerful option.

[andreww]

Imbicatus wrote:

For a heavens oracle this is blatantly untrue. The heavens oracle depends on spamming a first level spell, and undead sorcerer has the same spell on the list with the same casting stat. The sorcerer level allows you several extra castings of color spray per day, and allows you to affect humanoid undead with it.

It's a very powerful option.

The undead ability can easily be replaced by a metamagic rod and as you go up in levels you will rely less on colour spray, partly because the DC is unlikely to keep up but also because other options come on line as effective or more so.

Having to wait another level for those options is a terrible idea.

[Ragoz]

The shaman is a faster progression caster but I think the class is wasted on a 15 point buy.

[Randarak]

Idea: New hybrid class - Shoracle

[strayshift]

Lots of undead? Flame mystery and focus on blasting, you will still be a good buffer/healer especially if human and getting bonus spell.