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I don't blame Carol, Jen, or Greer for their choices. I DO blame bad writing for Reed and Tony.
Oh true, I don't blame the *characters* for the bizarre behavior, just as I don't blame Scott Summers for killing Xavier or Scarlet Witch for 'decimating' mutantkind. It's all on the writers.
But it does leave a lingering distaste for those characters in my mouth, and makes it harder for me to accept when they are later being pushed as hard as they are (particularly in Carol Danvers case, who received a righteous ethical/moral smackdown from *Emma Frost* of all people, when she showed up at the X-Mansion to sell them on Registration, only to get a mindful of every dead mutant kid ever, most of which the government did nothing to save, if not actively helped kill, beamed straight into her noggin), or their past hardliner behavior is being swept under the rug and they are becoming whacky likable folk again, like Stark or She-Hulk (who, in the latter case, is just being, IMO, 'written right again,' while Stark is just being turned from comic-book Tony Stark into MCU Robert Downey Jr. Tony Stark).
IMO, a lot more than ignoring it needed to happen to redeem these characters. On the one hand, ignoring it might be the best of all possible worlds, since I didn't like it and don't really *want* Reed, Tony, Carol, etc. to be supervillains in all but name, but it just comes across as a weird sort of dissonance.
Quesada has to answer for that, no question.
That and One More Day (was he to blame for that?). Double ugh.
Someone is to blame for for OMD. I just don't know who and how many.
Dissonance does happen in comics, but to me there's just like a "hiccup' versus Tony being a Dick.
Set, there are days where the things you day make me reconsider heterosexuality.
Nah. I blame Cosmo for many things. OMD isn't one of them.
Hey AZ, have you ever read Neil Gaiman's The Books of Magic?
BOOKS OF MAGIC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HARRY POTTER
BOOKS OF MAGIC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HARRY POTTERExcept Neil Gaiman is 1000 time the writer Rowling could ever hope to be.
I know, but I can't fit 1000 > in there.
At least not without pissing Chris lambertz off.
In any case Aber, what do you think about Post Crisis/Pre-Nu52 Lois using the Hellbat to fight the Eradicator?
Or what about the fact the Justice League is fighting people AND invaders from unknown space?
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I have no idea what you're talking about. DC f%%@ed up so many of their big titles years ago, and I dropped them like a bad habit. This latest reboot has been somewhat refreshing, but there's still a lot that's wrong with the DCU.
Some examples - Cyborg is still with the League, instead of where he belongs. Barry Allen is still the main Flash. The Green Lanterns are just are...well, I don't really have the time or inclination to talk about everything that's wrong there.
Aber,
So...what DC titles ARE you reading then? If any?
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I was getting Swamp Thing, but that was just a 6-issue miniseries. If they pick it up again, I may go with it depending on the writer. I also have been getting Legends of Tomorrow, Doctor Fate, and Dark Knight III: The Master Race. I recently added Future Quest.
With Rebirth, I added Titans, Nightwing, and Detective Comics. Not sure if I'll keep getting them. Detective is an interesting story so far, but it just doesn't fit the idea of Detective Comics. Titans I'm getting pretty much because it's the only book Wally West is in. I was always a little pissed they just tossed him out like so much garbage, especially considering he'd been so successful for so long. Nightwing is, so far, a little meh. I'm not fully up on the whole Court of Owls thing, so the story isn't all that interesting so far.
I'll add Batman Beyond when it starts up with Terry again in October - that was another good example of a perfectly awesome setting the powers that be at DC completely ruined with all that Brother Eye crap and making Tim that future Batman. Hopefully they'll completely ignore that s%+& pile and reset it completely to the way it was.
I'll also be getting the Adam Strange/Hawkman series when it comes out.
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Other than that, for Marvel I get Moonknight, Daredevil, and Agents of SHIELD (which is starting to come off as kind of lame). I was getting Doctor Strange, but the writer was an idiot. I was going to get the Steve Rogers Captain America, but when the whole "he's Hyrda/no he's not" cheap ass gimmick was revealed I dropped it like a hot rock. Not to mention, that crap sammich led me to research the writer and realize was a piece of s!#$ he is.
From Darkhorse, I'm getting Conan the Slayer (and pretty much anything REH they put out) and Weird Detective.
From IDW, I'm getting Rom and Micronauts.
Well I can't say I'm reading Doctor Fate closely but I had read Legends of Tomorrow until the last issue.
Detective Comics I like because it's more a team book. Which is cool.
Nightwing...has been pretty bad. Even with the Court of Owls...it's been pretty terrible.
Titans might be good but I'm waiting to see what else comes up in the story line.
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Oh, don't get me wrong, I like the Bat team idea, I just don't think it belongs in Detective Comics. Then again, I think all the Bat books are way too joined at the hip.
Back when I first started collecting, it was just Detective Comics and Batman, and neither book had much to do with the other. A little while later they added Legends of the Dark Knight, and even that book was it's own separate thing.
I'd love to see them get back to those days, but move the team dynamic thing to a different book and make Detective Comics more about solving some crimes or figuring out some mystery.
What mystery? The Joker did it! :p ;)
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Because Dan Didio is an idiot?
I just finished Madam Xanadu - Disenchanted and it was a good read.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'm enjoying Superdad. Not as much interested in Superluthor. Detective is the only place for my Tim/Steph fix. Titwns, well these are mostly my Titans so I'm staying with it.
I'm thinking Batman Beyond is not going to be the clean break it needs. So we will have Tim in the Bruce role, Dana mia, post apocalyptic earth, etc.
On the Marvel side, Vision is the only thing holding my interest right now. Oh, and Spidey 2099. Silk looks good, but on the fence.
Because Dan Didio is an idiot?With statements like this, I'll have to consider moving you off the "Eat First during the Zombiepocalypse" list.
Well it would be nice to not be eaten. Also it's not like Dan Didio is a friend of mine.
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As many folk around here may have read, I have a love/hate relationship with Grant Morrison. For every awesome White Martian, he's given us a s###ass abomination in Damian Wayne. For every brilliantly run on Doom Patrol or Justice League, he's given us crappy runs on Batman and horrendous stories like Final Crisis. Some people may disagree with my assessments, but I could give two f**@s less what you think.
So, onward to one of my "loves"......
DC One Million - The Justice League of the 853rd century comes back in time to visit the (then) current Justice League, inviting them to switch places so they can welcome the return of Superman Prime from the heart of the sun. Ageless villains (some old, some new) make a play against both Justice Leagues. Plots and plans spanning millennia come into play. Hilarity ensues. That's about as much of the plot as I want to give away, in case anyone wants to read it. The basic story was contained in a four issue miniseries, with a bunch of additional parts being told in special #1,000,000 issues of various other titles.
There were a lot of things I like about this one:
I loved the title concept, that if DC maintained a regular publishing schedule for that length of time, it'd be the 853rd century when they published their one-millionth issue (not sure what it was based on, but I think several major titles from 1998). It worked well with the entire story concept, giving the writer plenty to work with on how things would have advanced.
I loved the villains. Without giving too much away, the use of Vandal Savage was brilliant, and (to me) making excellent use of a vastly underrated bad guy. Then there's Solaris, The Tyrant Sun, an artificial sun with immense power and a very bad attitude. What I found most interesting about that concept was that Morrison took the one thing that actually gives Superman all his power (a yellow sun) and managed to turn it into one of Kal El's biggest enemies.
I also loved that one of my favorite characters, Martian Manhunter, played a significant role. The #1,000,000(separate from the actual miniseries) Martian Manhunter story of future him recounting his history was f~!%ing awesome.
Val Semeiks artwork was also spectacular, with some great action shots and really fluid future tech.
All in all, if you like reading a solid, entertaining story, with some good speculation on the future DCU, pick this one up.
*has seen DC One Million* I still like Final Crisis better. :p ;)
As many folk around here may have read, I have a love/hate relationship with Grant Morrison. For every awesome White Martian, he's given us a s+%+ass abomination in Damian Wayne. For every brilliantly run on Doom Patrol or Justice League, he's given us crappy runs on Batman and horrendous stories like Final Crisis. Some people may disagree with my assessments, but I could give two f%#~s less what you think.
So, onward to one of my "loves"......
DC One Million - The Justice League of the 853rd century comes back in time to visit the (then) current Justice League, inviting them to switch places so they can welcome the return of Superman Prime from the heart of the sun. Ageless villains (some old, some new) make a play against both Justice Leagues. Plots and plans spanning millennia come into play. Hilarity ensues. That's about as much of the plot as I want to give away, in case anyone wants to read it. The basic story was contained in a four issue miniseries, with a bunch of additional parts being told in special #1,000,000 issues of various other titles.
There were a lot of things I like about this one:
I loved the title concept, that if DC maintained a regular publishing schedule for that length of time, it'd be the 853rd century when they published their one-millionth issue (not sure what it was based on, but I think several major titles from 1998). It worked well with the entire story concept, giving the writer plenty to work with on how things would have advanced.
I loved the villains. Without giving too much away, the use of Vandal Savage was brilliant, and (to me) making excellent use of a vastly underrated bad guy. Then there's Solaris, The Tyrant Sun, an artificial sun with immense power and a very bad attitude. What I found most interesting about that concept was that Morrison took the one thing that actually gives Superman all his power (a yellow sun) and managed to turn it into one of Kal El's biggest enemies.
I also loved that one of my favorite characters, Martian...
DC One Million is one of my favorites.
I love that Morrison revisits The Tyrant Sun in his ALL STAR SUPERMAN...
Well, not everyone can be as awesome as me.
Not sure undead people can be awesome. Though if you cite fictional undead I might concede that point.
I think if we met, we'd be either the best of friends or the worst of enemies. It depends on which side of the alignment I'm falling towards.
Set,
That would make two of us. But then I'll go for my holy avenger sitting in my closet.
Okay MAYBE Keith. But so far he's the only one that I know of...
Real undead?
Well, seeing how well Goldie Hawn has been aging, I do sometimes wonder if the movie Death Becomes Her has some basis in fact. :)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I was rereading New Mutants the other day...
I forgot how much I enjoyed "spotlight" issues where it wasn't some big bad, but things like bringing the girlfriend home to mom, or bonding between mother and adopted daughter, or just them being friends. I miss that in comics. Maybe that is why I like Superdad so much.
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Since someone reminded me of Werewolf by Night....
Dead of Night featuring Werewolf by Night was a four-issue limited series, part of the Marvel Max line (which contained more mature content). It was violent and bloody, the way you'd expect a good werewolf story to be. The excellent writing was done by Duane Swierczynski, and the just as excellent art was done by Mico Suayan.
It gave an interesting origin story to Jack Russell. And that's about as much as I want to say without spoiling anything.
One detail I will discuss - the "conversations" between Jack and the Wolf. Russell was locking himself in a special chamber, and got the idea to start asking it questions. The wolf would respond in words written in their own blood.
If you can find it, I highly recommend it.
I was rereading New Mutants the other day...
I forgot how much I enjoyed "spotlight" issues where it wasn't some big bad, but things like bringing the girlfriend home to mom, or bonding between mother and adopted daughter, or just them being friends. I miss that in comics. Maybe that is why I like Superdad so much.
have i got a story for you...
Clone Conspiracy apparently is more about getting around comic book death for 'normal' people than it is about clones or Spidey fighting clones.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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have i got a story for you...I was rereading New Mutants the other day...
I forgot how much I enjoyed "spotlight" issues where it wasn't some big bad, but things like bringing the girlfriend home to mom, or bonding between mother and adopted daughter, or just them being friends. I miss that in comics. Maybe that is why I like Superdad so much.
Care to elaborate?
A little change of topic
Something I realized. My favorite comics are all from pre-2000.
I'd actually say X-men hit it's peak in the late 80s and early to mid 90s.
Batman and Superman really hit their peaks in the 80s.
Other older comics hit their peaks in the 60s and 70s.
However, ALL of them changed drastically around the turn of the century. (Well, except for Archie, that seems to have retained most of what it used to be regardless).
What I didn't realize was that it was about that time when many comic companies were abandoning the CCA.
Now the CCA wasn't necessarily a good thing, as it restricted creative freedom (IMO), but I think it may have seriously affected the TONE of comics.
If you wanted a CCA branding, even with rules changes, you basically had to cater towards a teen and pre-teen audience. If you wanted to cater to adult audiences, you basically had to give up getting that CCA branding.
I'm wondering if my like of comics pre-2000 was that they automatically had to deal with trying to write stories that appealed more to a teeny/pre-teen audience (sort of how one also likes children's story books or teen books instead of adult novels and such) and I enjoyed that mode of writing more than the adult stories that they write now?
Some items they include in comics these days would never have seen the light of dawn under the CCA stamp of approval. It has created a completely different tone of writing and a different approach to what composes the story and storylines of comic books (for example, it is possible that a lot of the subplots for Civil War would not have been written under the old 90s CCA approval?).
Just me wondering on introspective thoughts on my own likes of comic books past and present.
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A little change of topic
Something I realized. My favorite comics are all from pre-2000.
I'd actually say X-men hit it's peak in the late 80s and early to mid 90s.
Batman and Superman really hit their peaks in the 80s.
Other older comics hit their peaks in the 60s and 70s.
However, ALL of them changed drastically around the turn of the century. (Well, except for Archie, that seems to have retained most of what it used to be regardless).
What I didn't realize was that it was about that time when many comic companies were abandoning the CCA.
Now the CCA wasn't necessarily a good thing, as it restricted creative freedom (IMO), but I think it may have seriously affected the TONE of comics.
If you wanted a CCA branding, even with rules changes, you basically had to cater towards a teen and pre-teen audience. If you wanted to cater to adult audiences, you basically had to give up getting that CCA branding.
I'm wondering if my like of comics pre-2000 was that they automatically had to deal with trying to write stories that appealed more to a teeny/pre-teen audience (sort of how one also likes children's story books or teen books instead of adult novels and such) and I enjoyed that mode of writing more than the adult stories that they write now?
Some items they include in comics these days would never have seen the light of dawn under the CCA stamp of approval. It has created a completely different tone of writing and a different approach to what composes the story and storylines of comic books (for example, it is possible that a lot of the subplots for Civil War would not have been written under the old 90s CCA approval?).
Just me wondering on introspective thoughts on my own likes of comic books past and present.
I've always been a fan of CCA. I'm with you in that all my favorite books were from that era too. The darker tone just... isn't FUN anymore. There was a time when it was a new hip fad that everyone wanted to be a part of... but I think they lost a LOT of their creativity and imagination when they dropped the entire industry into the grim and gritty ultra-realistic sludge fest.
I've always been a fan of CCA. I'm with you in that all my favorite books were from that era too. The darker tone just... isn't FUN anymore. There was a time when it was a new hip fad that everyone wanted to be a part of... but I...A little change of topic
Something I realized. My favorite comics are all from pre-2000.
I'd actually say X-men hit it's peak in the late 80s and early to mid 90s.
Batman and Superman really hit their peaks in the 80s.
Other older comics hit their peaks in the 60s and 70s.
However, ALL of them changed drastically around the turn of the century. (Well, except for Archie, that seems to have retained most of what it used to be regardless).
What I didn't realize was that it was about that time when many comic companies were abandoning the CCA.
Now the CCA wasn't necessarily a good thing, as it restricted creative freedom (IMO), but I think it may have seriously affected the TONE of comics.
If you wanted a CCA branding, even with rules changes, you basically had to cater towards a teen and pre-teen audience. If you wanted to cater to adult audiences, you basically had to give up getting that CCA branding.
I'm wondering if my like of comics pre-2000 was that they automatically had to deal with trying to write stories that appealed more to a teeny/pre-teen audience (sort of how one also likes children's story books or teen books instead of adult novels and such) and I enjoyed that mode of writing more than the adult stories that they write now?
Some items they include in comics these days would never have seen the light of dawn under the CCA stamp of approval. It has created a completely different tone of writing and a different approach to what composes the story and storylines of comic books (for example, it is possible that a lot of the subplots for Civil War would not have been written under the old 90s CCA approval?).
Just me wondering on introspective thoughts on my own likes of comic books past and present.
you can only sell CCA schlock for so long before it gets old. The rise of Japanese animation proved that. That said you can only sell gritty realism for so long before it gets old. Lumberjanes and similar comics are proof of that.
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you can only sell CCA schlock for so long before it gets old. The rise of Japanese animation proved that. That said you can only sell gritty realism for so long before it gets old. Lumberjanes and similar comics are proof of that.
Fifty years is nothing to sneeze at. I hope we don't have to slog through fifty years of the gritty crap.
As for Schlock?? The entire marvel and DC empire was built on the back of the CCA. Now that it's gone?? They're losing audiences like mad and struggling to reach new customers.
One of the things I hear all the time is that kids don't care about comics... but at the same time there aren't any comics for kids anymore. Everywhere I look I see Spider-man, Batman and Avengers merchandise on everything a kid owns.... so obviously the characters still appeal.
The companies have abandoned reaching for the next generation.... and with the constant reboots and character assassinations they've abandoned the older core fanbase too...
I'm not even sure WHO they think they're trying to reach... but the numbers just aren't there.