| Suzume StJohn |
Ok, ran a playtest of the class tonight, adding in a vigilante to the party to help out with their current mission. A little bit of GM Fiat got him into the group (THey are going into the jungle, and thus needed a guide. And so their backers sent them a 'wandering gnome' guide!) So, the little talkative gnomish man is leading them through the jungle when they come across a huge beastie thing that wants to kill us. The party is fairly stacked, and highish level (14th), so it's not too hard of a fight. Brini the gnome jumps into a bush, having previously told them he's not much of a fighter, 'hid' there they whole fight. After the first round, a masked and armored Gnome showed up, slinging mystic bolts, and doing a decent job of helping out. (He was by far the lowest damaging dude on the map, but that will go into the playtest feedback forum later!)
ANYWAY, after the fight is over, we got to talking a bit, and they were wondering where this mysterious figure came from. My guy bluffed his way out of it, saying he didn't see anyone, so that person must have run off! Fine enough for just some fun! BUT, then we got talking.
We know divination spells wont work to figure out Brini the Wandering Gnome is also the masked vigilante (Name TBD, so if you're part of my group, I'mma leave you guessing!). But... what about arcane mark? They could slap an invisi one on his forhead, and then forever (For a month at least) tell that Brini is also the masked man. A 0th level spell completely negates the 'special thing' for the entire class. Did I miss something, and there is actually something in the class that helps (Outside of the dispell/arcane mark of your own combo my Warlock thought to do).
Anyway, something to think on maybe!
| Johnny_Devo |
Sure, I think it would work if the vigilante's identity was already compromised, but that'd be more the vigilante's fault than anything. If someone were to put arcane marks on people's foreheads without any prior suspicion, that person would already be a bit of a loony himself.
I think the idea that arcane mark can be used in this way is fine, since a regular person has no reason to do that unless they're already suspecting the social identity.
| Zwordsman |
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I suppose. One could argue that under the current rules... That the costumed vigilate is ENTIRELY a seperate person for almost every mechanic---they even get their own alignments.
So one could argue that the mark, only marked the vigilante. and the other person is completely seperate. Since it works even up to divine level it's a special circumstance. I could see it working that way at least. and probably should perhaps.. .but it would need specific wording.
but thats a weird precedent to set... since you could argue for some other spells then..
but I always sorta thought arcane mark marked the soul and body. (doesn't actually say that though so this is fluff for me making a home rule)
| Starbuck_II |
Seems like pretty clear-cut metagaming. It's like going up to someone you just met and asking them if you can draw a symbol on their forehead in permanent ink. Nobody would submit to that.
People do that at raves/parties all the time, at least on their hand.
Heck, Disney/Univeral studios/etc put a mark on your hand sometimes to enter. Any of these could have secretly been an arcane mark.| Zwordsman |
Seems like pretty clear-cut metagaming. It's like going up to someone you just met and asking them if you can draw a symbol on their forehead in permanent ink. Nobody would submit to that.
Also if I remember right. somewhere (either in the book or some FAQ) there was a thing about silent and still. People still feel and see any magic properties. They just don't see you the character moving his arms or saying anything.
So silent and still means you don't have to wave around. but the touch is still required. and touching someone isn't that big of a deal depending on what your mark is.
| Doomed Hero |
I have a character who uses Stealth and Slight of Hand to arcane mark people all the time. He's paranoid and once had a shapeshifter stalking him, so he wants to make sure everyone is who they seem to be.
He uses the marks as a scrying focus, and if he meets with someone, he uses the marks to make sure that if he talks to them later, that they are the same person, and not something else pretending to be them.
In a world where shapeshifters exist, arcane mark is a pretty good way of making sure the people you trust are really the people you trust.
| Gisher |
Seems like pretty clear-cut metagaming. It's like going up to someone you just met and asking them if you can draw a symbol on their forehead in permanent ink. Nobody would submit to that.
That would be weird. But pretty much every Magus puts Arcane Mark on opponents as a way of spammming Spellstrike. (Except for Hexcrafters who usually use the similarly problematical Brand cantrip.) If a Vigilante goes up against a Magus, there is a decent chance that they will be marked.
| Puna'chong |
Puna'chong wrote:Seems like pretty clear-cut metagaming. It's like going up to someone you just met and asking them if you can draw a symbol on their forehead in permanent ink. Nobody would submit to that.People do that at raves/parties all the time, at least on their hand.
Heck, Disney/Univeral studios/etc put a mark on your hand sometimes to enter. Any of these could have secretly been an arcane mark.
Well, I suppose I was thinking more in context of "You meet someone on the road who helps you fight monsters. What do you do?" "I brand him."
Maybe in the course of fighting, sure, but outside of a context where it's warranted (because most things have a context where they're warranted or expected) I would say, yeah, most people would be opposed to being stamped for little to no reason. But an adventuring party running around marking everything and everyone probably would be asked to knock it off.
| Manwolf |
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Isnt this kind of part of the trope anyways? Zorro was caught because of a distinctive cut, Spider man was found out because of a cut too and i am sure there are many others i cant remember off the top of my head.
Like a boy with a lightning bolt on his forehead in his secret persona of H.P. as a troll living under his uncle's stairs, but when he dons his Robes of Wizardry and wields his Wand of Power, he becomes "The Boy Who Lived"!
| Dekalinder |
I would say that you don't actually need any mark. The second time this random gnome shows up after the original gnome disappeared it's enaugh t give him -500 to bluff his way out.
Hiding your identity from the group is nightly impossible.
That said, I could definetly see reach spell Brand or Arcane Mark as a good way to identify some vigilantes.
| alexd1976 |
The group would have to be pretty poorly made to fall for this...
Perception skill? Where did that gnome go, where did the new one come from?
I wouldn't call it metagaming to just assume the 'new guy' IS the 'old guy'.
That being said, if I was the gnome and someone started reaching towards my head, I would question that. With my sword. In their face.