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In order to function in melee, Mystic Bolt should be a SU ability. As a SP ability, it will provoke for each attack, or force you to make a concentration check for each attack. Since you threaten with it, you can even provoke an AoO for Taking an AoO.
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It doesn't provoke in melee because it says in the description that it doesn't provoke in melee.
It doesn't provoke in melee because it says in the description that it doesn't provoke in melee.
As written, it seems like it's the ATTACK with the bolt that doesn't provoke, not the 'creation' of the bolt itself.
This read like boilerplate language about making a touch attack to me, at least.
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It doesn't provoke in melee because it says in the description that it doesn't provoke in melee.As written, it seems like it's the ATTACK with the bolt that doesn't provoke, not the 'creation' of the bolt itself.
This read like boilerplate language about making a touch attack to me, at least.
Exactly. The attack doesn't provoke, but it needs to be clear the the act of generating the bolt doesn't provoke either.
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Is there a benefit to making it SP? SU makes it clear how it works and has a lower word count. SP requires an exception and isn't clear how it works.
Does it provoke twice when used at ranged? Once for ranged and once for 'casting'?
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From the Magic Chapter:
Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.
Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.
If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability's effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is granted.
These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas.
So, since the intent is for the ability to not provoke the only difference in making them SU over SP would be that Mystic Bolts would not be subject to SR. They can't be dispelled as they are generated on each attack.
Also. Am I misremembering SP?
If you cast it at someone, does it require a spell resistance roll?
Dispel: Yes
Spell resistance: YesAntimagic field: Yes
Attack of opportunity: Yes
I REALLY want mystic bolt to raise of caster level instead of warlock level..
There are some fun ideas, but they're harder to do if it works off of class level..
if warlock had spells per day normal progression (with talent to unlock ability to use (though maybe allow for metamagic if slots or not)) then you could make some cool concept characters using warlock as a base.
Like a warlock with some casting and mystic bolt, either vmc rogue or multiclassing going into arcane trickster. Would make a wonderful concept for excpanding on that kind of vigelante.
When is there ever a difference between caster level and warlock level? Do you mean change it IF you also change it to a normal progression AND add a prestige class that advances casting? If so, it seems pretty meh... 99% of prestige classes just aren't worth taking and the ones that are are pretty niche.
Don't really see how multiclassing would be effected as I don't know of any multiclassing options that advance either warlock warlock level or their caster level. Pretty much the only thing that's going to alter Caster level is prestige classes. So it'd be entirely to let it mesh with them.
To be clear, I'm not against changing what it goes off of I just don't think the majority of people would be affected by it.
Ok, I get what you mean now but multi-classing (picking up a level of fighter) is different that prestige classing (changing into Eldritch knight). You had me fairly confused.
Eldritch knight doesn't completely suck as an option, but dragon disciple looks pretty bad even with the changes. To be honest, if the change is ONLY to allow prestige classing I doubt you'll see many people clamoring for it (or going out of their way to 'fix' it).
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I really don't see the draw of making it more PrC friendly. Mystic Bolt is really the only thing other than the dual identity that is truly unique about the warlock. If you can advance that in a Full-Caster PrC, there is less reason to stay in Vigilante.
For the purpose of the playtest at least, we should be focusing on pure class characters as multiclassing dilutes the balance of the class itself.
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SP does provoke by default, because of the text "In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell."
Based on Mark's post the melee bolt doesn't provoke because it has a specific exception. That's fine, but it's not clear. The ranged bolt provokes twice however, once for activating the ability, and once for making the ranged attack.
Bypassing SR isn't really an issue for balance of the ability, as firearms don't have to worry about SR, have better range, have clustered shots to bypass DR, and don't have to deal with damage immunity.
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I would love to take Mystic Bolt twice to TWF. Taking twice only gets you a new damage type option which isn't really worth the talent but strangely necessary to get past things that can easily resist the damage type you chose. If each element had a different kind of status effect it would be a different story.
Plus I think it would allow more potential connections to future matrial; whatever that may be, if it's similar in line to normal class with regarts to caster level stuff. (not that mystic bolt being caster level is remotely the norm. But with regards to the spells per day thing).
Probably won't really be altered at all but I can hope I guess.
I think they'd be more inclined to keep it as is and add new archetypes and prestige classes in a new Vigilante Handbook or Intrigue Origins. That way you have to buy new material instead of using preexisting material.
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I can actually see it as worthwhile to take Mystic Bolts twice as it is now just for dealing with immunities or to exploit vulnerabilities.
Everything resists fire, but a lot of things take double damage from it.
Very little resists Acid and it will stop trolls. Not much vulnerability though.
Ice is in the same boat as fire, and electricity as acid.
If you are investing in Mystic Bolts, Energy Resistance 10 can cripple you, never mind immunity. Unlike DR, there is no enhancement bonus, special materials, power attack/deadly aim, or cluster shots to help avoid or power through that resistance.
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I never realized it but Spell Like Abilities still suffer spell failure... which means the Warlock pretty much cant wear armor... way to shaft the one cool ability...
I never realized it but Spell Like Abilities still suffer spell failure... which means the Warlock pretty much cant wear armor... way to shaft the one cool ability...
How do you figure?
Arcane Spell Failure only applies to arcane spells with somatic components.
Spell like abilities have no verbal, somatic or material components.
I don't see an exception to this in the Mystic Bolt writeup.
I figure if kinetic blast is spell-like, mystic bolt should be spell-like too.
Meh, I wish the term 'spell-like' was used for things that were actually like spells. A simple blast of energy without fancy hand signs or invocations shouldn't be like a spell.
Also being spell-like is affected by the nonlethal spell talent
Technically, you should be able to take the quicken/empower spell-like ability feat too boost damage and rate of fire a few times per day.
This brings up an interesting question on what spell level mystic bolt is.
The rules say this
If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability's effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is gained.
...but the highest spell level of a vigilante varies based upon both the level the vigilante takes the mystic bolt talent, and what arcane training the vigilante has. It also technically varies depending on whether the vigilante levels up while in NPC class or PC class mode - while in social persona they only have first level classing.
Mystic Bolt should definitely be supernatural. *So* much simpler that way. Too much rules baggage otherwise.
I'd say that Mystic Bolt defaults as a 2nd-level spell as the Warlock table still adds the slot at level 4
Yeah they could work like the Arcane Bolt of the Sage Sorcerer, that it says it counts as a spell of level Sorcerer/2
They SHOULD be made to bypass Spell Resitance. The ability is weak enough already (with the ban on using useful feats like Rapid Shot or TWF to make it relevant), it doesn't need more dragging it down.
Agreed, I think I might like it more if it was non elemental and you could pick up a secondary talent that was elementally oriented for the blast that also adds in something like a secondary effect. Say being on fire for fire blast, slowed for ice, dazed for electrical, etc. I'd also be in favor of allowing things like TWF, Deadly Aim, etc.