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Hi, my friend has been saying that there are some changes in alchemist text and that this class now can craft.
Currently he is reinforcing his claim with the new discovery from Cohorts and Companions "The Material mastery"
Material Mastery (Ex): Your superior knowledge of the
nature of matter enables you to ignore spell requirements
more easily when crafting magic items. By expending an
extract of the same school and level as a spell prerequisite
when crafting a magic item, you take only a –2 penalty for
ignoring that requirement, instead of –5.
My understanding is that this new discovery is for the Construct Rider alchemist archetype that grants Craft Construct feat to alchemist without prerequisites and any other upcoming archetype that grants crafting abilities.
Cos for brew potion this discovery is useless. Duh...I still believe alchemists can not craft (take feat craft wondrous items) due to an existence of this FAQ.
So what's your take on this? Am I missing something?
You're not missing anything. Your friend is just weirdly extrapolating.
Once again there is a weird vibe that alchemist has access to crafting when in reality - he does not. And that alchemists might as well be and "exception" caster, for prerequisites.
About the discovery:
1) If it's intended for the construct building Alchemist, then why is it a general discovery open to everyone, when only 1 archetype can benefit?
2) It does not synergize with other classes, since it relies on extracts, so multi-classing (like the internal alchemists synergy with ki-based classes) is out of the picture.
3) If it's for the Master Craftsman feat then what's the point of a class discovery that has feat prerequisites? It's like giving a rage power that only works if you have combat expertise or something like that.
Then there's THIS. With the official FAQ still said NO.
Bump.... We need more opinions, facts...
For now my opinion stands
1) Because they intend to make other archetypes with ability to craft in the future.
2) 3) Both are inefficient options, but this game is full with inefficient options - it does not mean they are not a valid or only option.
The Great and Mighty JJ posted this before the FAQ was made. So I believe the newer (and more official) statement holds true.
Thematic issues - Yes, it's wrong for alchemist not to have access to magical item crafting, but AFAIK Paizo rules team wishes so and also knows of thematic discrepancy.
Because they intend to make other archetypes with ability to craft in the future.
Make an ability now for it to have 0 use, only to make more supplements that use it later? Like Selling you a car engine, but offering to buy a car later? That's cheap. I don't think paizo staff is cheap.
2) 3) Both are inefficient options, but this game is full with inefficient options - it does not mean they are not a valid or only option.
Class "specials" almost never need prerequisites aside from levels and other class specials. And usually they state those prerequisites if they exist.
Just because it's not very useful doesn't mean it worthless.
Keep in mind an alchemist could pick up the crafting skill unlocks from Unchained which would allow them to (eventually) craft magical items as though they qualified for the appropriate Craft Arms & Armor/Craft Wondrous Item/etc feats.
It's very limited, but exists.
And don't put it past Paizo to write an optional ability that is primarily useful to only one archetype. It's not the first time it has happened.
All that said, no the ability still doesn't invalidate the FAQ which is that they don't have caster levels, and thusly don't qualify for any of the magical crafting feats (except Brew Potion which they already get).
Yeah, I get that, that make is a very useless discovery for now, dependent on tax feats and variant crafting rules. A crafting cohort is probably the next best thing for an Alchemist. But the amount of vague hints at crafting Alchemists bothers be. There's even a wondrous item that can ONLY be crafted by an Alchemist, the Admixture Vial. For all the great uses of Brew Potion, it is also quite limiting. They can't even craft elixirs for Abadar sake.
The book does give a discovery that allows alchemists to cast a single spell as a wizard, using extract slots of a level higher.
interconnected have taught you to cast a very limited number
of spells. Select a single spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell
list that is at least 2 levels lower than your highest-level
extract known. You can prepare and cast this spell as an
arcane spell. Preparing the spell uses up an extract slot 1 level
higher than the spell’s level. Your caster level is equal to your
alchemist level, and your save DCs and concentration checks
are Intelligence-based. You’re considered to have this spell on
your spell list for purposes of prerequisites, spell completion
items, and spell trigger items.
You may select this discovery more than once. Each time,
it grants you access to another spell from the sorcerer/
wizard spell list.
Which I'm pretty sure lets alchemists craft, if getting there through a route that is highly at odds with how they are set up.
I can't find that ability anywhere on d20pfsrd or the PRD. What is it from?
I can't find that ability anywhere on d20pfsrd or the PRD. What is it from?
Page 13 of the new Cohorts and Companions Player Companion book. It just came out a few days ago so it hasn't been added to any of the online databases.
Once again there is a weird vibe that alchemist has access to crafting when in reality - he does not. And that alchemists might as well be and "exception" caster, for prerequisites.
About the discovery:
1) If it's intended for the construct building Alchemist, then why is it a general discovery open to everyone, when only 1 archetype can benefit?
Because A.) Discoveries (and abilities like them) have never been archetype locked and B.) there are a few ways any Alchemist can qualify for it.
2) It does not synergize with other classes, since it relies on extracts, so multi-classing (like the internal alchemists synergy with ki-based classes) is out of the picture.
Paizo has always heavily discouraged multiclassing.
3) If it's for the Master Craftsman feat then what's the point of a class discovery that has feat prerequisites? It's like giving a rage power that only works if you have combat expertise or something like that.
Then there's THIS. With the official FAQ still said NO.
...You do realize crafting ALREADY HAS Feat prerequisites right? You can't craft without the proper crafting Feat.
This is just like the Barbarian's Ferocious Mount Rage Powers. Available to any Barbarian, but only useful to ones with the Animal Ally Feat, who multiclass, or who have the Mounted Fury archetype.
it gives them a caster level.
Does it? Where'd you read that?
As written, the Craft Construct bonus feat does almost nothing for a pure alchemist. Most Constructs have a caster level requirement for their creator that must be met.
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it gives them a caster level.Does it? Where'd you read that?
As written, the Craft Construct bonus feat does almost nothing for a pure alchemist. Most Constructs have a caster level requirement for their creator that must be met.
Not the archetype, the discovery has a completely separate line stating this:
Your caster level is equal to your alchemist level, and your save DCs and concentration checks are Intelligence-based.
it gives them a caster level.Does it? Where'd you read that?Not the archetype, the discovery has a completely separate line stating this:
Your caster level is equal to your alchemist level, and your save DCs and concentration checks are Intelligence-based.
Aha! Now that makes it a lot more useful. Thanks for correcting me, and being a more thorough reader than I am.
The good people at Paizo apparently tend to forget they made the Alchemist a non-caster.
Silly of them (on both counts).
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You can do it now?
Construct Rider + Spell Knowledge = make all the Homunculi you like. Or the more intensive way, Alchemist + Spell Knowledge + craft feats
Which is nice, but as I recall their exact words were that they were going to "Address this problem" or something similar.
Making an optional archetype (which by nature trades out something else) and Discovery for said archetype (which eats one of your Discoveries) is not "Addressing the problem", it's introducing a kludge fix.
Instead of simply making an Errata that says something to the effect of "Alchemists can craft, yo".
Spell Knowledge doesn't seem to be a Construct Rider specific discovery-- they do have a couple, but those are related to their mount. Unless I'm missing something, which is possible.
You're not missing anything, Spell Knowledge, Material Mastery, and Syringe Stirge are listed in Cohorts and Companions separately under New Alchemist Discoveries. The section specifically says "Any alchemist who meets the prerequisites can select the following discoveries."
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What, like this?I have been hinted at by Devs, FAQs, and various other sources, that eventually, the Alchemist, would be able to craft a Homunculus.
Years, of waiting, with just enough teases here, and there, to not completely give up hope.
Why the broken promises?
Why pick me up, just to let me down?
That is another let down.
That is not a Homunculus, or even a construct, and the Alchemist still cannot craft any construct, including, the Homunculus.
The book does give a discovery that allows alchemists to cast a single spell as a wizard, using extract slots of a level higher.
** spoiler omitted **
Which I'm pretty sure lets alchemists craft, if getting there through a route that is highly at odds with how they are set up.
That is interesting. So an Alchemist with the Magus VMC can now get, say, shocking grasp with this discovery and actually get some use out of Spellstrike. Neat!
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The "Constructs Without Spells" section on p12 of Cohorts and Companions does seem to suggest that alchemists don't need master craftsmanship even without spells, which is going to create some table variation.
...In addition to spells and masterful craftsmanship, it’s possible to instill magic into magic items (including constructs) through alchemy.
The text does not attach any riders with that explaining what conditions make it possible, which seems like a declaration that alchemy counts for crafting (the text before it about more reliable ways of using Master Craftsman).
Another occasion when I am left wishing that softcovers had errata/FAQ support.
Seams like the Alchemist needs a separate FAQ.