I’ve got a friend that wants to make a plausible PC.
By plausible he means capabilities that he can think of some at least semi-logical possible way it could actually be accomplished with RL science/engineering. (Note 1: He is not an actual scientist or engineer. So it doesn’t need to be perfect, just in the realm of RL realistic.) Then he will play it as a skeptic conspiracy theorist that doesn’t believe in magic or gods. It’s all a big show to keep control of the masses by those on top. A lot of his time will be spent trying to figure out how people are doing their ‘magic’ and trying to talk them out of taking part in the massive scam. But it still has to be capable of holding his own and carrying his part of the load both in and out of combat.
So his examples were:
Charm person, suggestion, bulls strength, remove disease, ray of sickening, haste – Ok because you could give people a drug which will have effects at least close to that. The ‘magic’ is someone figured out an inconspicuous way to give them the drug.
Fireball, scortching ray – firebombs and flame throwers are real things
Cone of cold – he was going to say no but I pointed our spraying people with liquid nitrogen would come close to that kind of effects.
Cloud kill – sure poisonous gasses are a thing.
Black tentacles, teleport, create demi-plane, bestow curse, enlarge person, beast shape, control weather, summon monster - no
Mithril – titanium
Adamantine – not sure, there are special materials (ceramics and diamond bits) that are pretty dang durable and are able to cut up other materials easier
Tripping people with a whip is believable
Firing a muzzle loader 5 times in 6 seconds is not.
Hasn’t decided about illusions yet, probably ok with some of the most minor ones. Stage magicians do quite a bit with the classic ‘smoke and mirrors’ routines and there are holograms now.
So he’s looking for some suggestions on character build.
Investigator or alchemist were my first two suggestions. If careful on what infusions, abilities, and feats should be able to stay within his ‘possible’ and still give some useful abilities without getting into the ridiculous combat or magic things.
So ideas do you have for him?
Divine Defiance has a small feat tree with bonuses against Clerical magic, though that doesn't help against Wizards obviously.
It sounds like he wants to play some other game.......
Nah, the group is actively trying to make a group of societies misfits.
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So he is playing an insane character who is out of touch with the world he is living in.
For someone living in Golarion or any other high magic fantasy world, denying magic is real is as ludicrous as denying that airplanes can fly on Earth.
I'd suggest gunslinger as they are the most technological class.
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You know that for all purposes in-game this character would be a raving lunatic?
On the level of the shaggy grey hair and unkempt full beared, wearing only dirty underwear, with an aluminium foiled hat and a trolley full of smelly empty bear cans, holding a sign "Obama is an agent for the Lizard-Molepeople from Outerspace!"
So he is playing an insane character who is out of touch with the world he is living in.
For someone living in Golarion or any other high magic fantasy world, denying magic is real is as ludicrous as denying that airplanes can fly on Earth.
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You know that for all purposes in-game this character would be a raving lunatic?
On the level of the shaggy grey hair and unkempt full beared, wearing only dirty underwear, with an aluminium foiled hat and a trolley full of smelly empty bear cans, holding a sign "Obama is an agent for the Lizard-Molepeople from Outerspace!"
Yes, I believe he is aware of that.
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Most things are out for this guy, logically and plausibly there is no reason that a non-magical ability could not be done 1000 times a day rather than just once, such as with any spell/extract etc that he would know or try to use.
It is illogical that non-magic would be limited by level.
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I think he believes he can reason that away in his own head by "I only have so much of X drug with me today" or "I haven't learned how to do that yet."
As I said, it doesn't have to be perfect. Just close enough that he can figure out a way to justify it in his head.
Has he come up with a reason to believe that 'drugs/chemicals' CAN do what he thinks as opposed to magic?
I mean it is not like Golarion (except maybe one place) has any real sort of advanced technology or ways to learn ANY of the hard sciences let alone even know their terminology.
How can he use excuses his character would have no way to even conceive of? Even the most delusional base their ravings on SOMETHING in their real world, even if that something is fantastic stories.
How many fantastic stories are there in Golarion mythology about computers, chemistry, nuclear physics, Science based medicine, psychology (mass hallucinations as illusions) etc.?
Alchemist? Investigator?
I mean that seems like it would fit what you want really well.
NPC "Watch out he's casting fireball!"
PC "He's not casting anything! There is a logical explanation for everything! IT'S NOT MAGIC!"
FLOOOSH!
NPC "Yeah, it's logical that he just cast fireball."
PC2 "Look can we just kill the guy and sort it out later?"
5 point buy commoner e3. And the guy Will be a joke in a World of magic unless he is rigth and it is all smoke and mirrors.
I think a more interesting way to play this would be a character that believes magic is going to die soon, and the people need to start figuring out how to replicate magic.
Unless he's from some super-future where tech is advanced enough to replicate magic, it doesn't really make sense.
How many fantastic stories are there in Golarion mythology about computers, chemistry, nuclear physics, Science based medicine, psychology (mass hallucinations as illusions) etc.?
Well Numeria as a whole fits the bill
Has he come up with a reason to believe that 'drugs/chemicals' CAN do what he thinks as opposed to magic?
I mean it is not like Golarion (except maybe one place) has any real sort of advanced technology or ways to learn ANY of the hard sciences let alone even know their terminology.
How can he use excuses his character would have no way to even conceive of? Even the most delusional base their ravings on SOMETHING in their real world, even if that something is fantastic stories.
How many fantastic stories are there in Golarion mythology about computers, chemistry, nuclear physics, Science based medicine, psychology (mass hallucinations as illusions) etc.?
I really can't say for sure. Maybe his GM has said he can be channeling the spirit of someone from a science universe. I wasn't there for his conversation with the GM. Or really even if he had one. I guess I'm assuming he has a conversation, because that group normally has fairly extensive discussions on what they will be doing with their characters.
Oh, I see it didn't mention it in the first post. That group usually stops their games somewhere around levels 7-10.
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How many fantastic stories are there in Golarion mythology about computers, chemistry, nuclear physics, Science based medicine, psychology (mass hallucinations as illusions) etc.?Well Numeria as a whole fits the bill
Yeah there actually is an area with a crashed ship now. Maybe he was planning on being a character from that area. I don't know for sure. he just asked me to help him with some character concepts.
Dot
This sounds like a character along the lines of Edward Elric from Full-Metal Alchemist or Hououin Kyouma from Stein's Gate. I agree that an Alchemist or an Investigator would fit this concept perfectly.
Honestly, with that setup I'm leaning a little towards either Alchemist or Fighter, possibly Barbarian (but be mindful of some of the rage powers). Alchemist has the science vibe to it, and fighters and barbarians aren't stereotyped as being the most aware of the classes.
Monk might be interesting too, depending on how 'real' he considers martial arts myths.
Then there's the NPC classes. Aristocrat and expert might have some interesting flavour, warrior is fighter without neat toys, and commoner is the backbone of society you must have one it's mandatory ;)
Ideas for him? Be willing to adapt when his character witnesses proof that the providers of sacred and profane magic exist. In the gaming world there is concrete proof (or much closer to concrete) proof than in our own the deities exist. Instead of molding the game world around him, make sure had can adapt as the game progresses, or RPs the f#!@ out of it.
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You know how Atheism works in Golarion?
To quote the Inner Sea Guide:
Atheism
Atheism is the rejection of the gods. Rather than outright disbelieving in gods (whose existence is a matter of hard fact), atheists in Golarion instead deny that the gods are truly divine and thus not deserving of worship or blind faith. Thus, atheists may be classed as dystheists or misotheists.
Atheism is looked down upon in many parts of Golarion, but is enforced on a state level in the nations of Rahadoum in Garund, Touvette in the River Kingdoms[4], and Bachuan in Tian Xia. The devils known as deimaviggas believe that atheism is a tool to be used to lead mortals away from the gods and into Hell's embrace. Some atheists have learned to heal themselves via mind-over-matter mental techniques in the absence of divine magic.
Despite their lack of faith, atheist souls are still judged by Pharasma. Some become bodiless spirits in the Astral Plane or are reincarnated, but most find their fate in the Graveyard of Souls.
This sounds like a character along the lines of Edward Elric from Full-Metal Alchemist or Hououin Kyouma from Stein's Gate. I agree that an Alchemist or an Investigator would fit this concept perfectly.
I had to google those. I'm not an anime guy, but he is. So it is entirely possible, that is where he got the concept.
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Logically plausible, in our world, or logically plausible, within Golarion(the world of Pathfinder).
This is a very important distinction, that must be made, before a single bit of advice can be put forth.
Logically plausible in our world, yet successfully operating in Golarion (somewhat GM modified).
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Barbarian. Spell Sunder chain. Seriously, it's begging for this.
"I don't believe in your magic so it doesn't work on me". That's Superstition in a nutshell. Later on, he demonstrates the truth of his theories by punching spells out of existence. There are a few rage power chains to avoid (the Blood ones, for the glaring examples), but that's easy enough to do.
Brought it up, but he wasn't thrilled with this one. Superstitious works mechanically, but it pretty much means the opposite of what the character is supposed to be. Superstitious means you believe and are scared of magic. He doesn't believe in it and wants to prove it isn't real.
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Ideas for him? Be willing to adapt when his character witnesses proof that the providers of sacred and profane magic exist. In the gaming world there is concrete proof (or much closer to concrete) proof than in our own the deities exist. Instead of molding the game world around him, make sure had can adapt as the game progresses, or RPs the f+*% out of it.
That is actually the 'retirement plan' for the character. A few acts of trickery here and there will not be enough to convince him. But he figures their final fight with the ultimate BBEG will be enough magical that he can't deny it anymore and has an emotional breakdown when he finally realizes it has really been real all along. So he will retire to go figure out what he has been missing (becoming a wizard or something like that).
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Logically plausible in our world severely limits his options, and would logically, put him at a level cap. At a certain level, PCs of any class, are basically superhuman. Though, you could say the PC eventually adapts, and find that within this realm, he can actually achieve superhuman-like abilities, through training.
So, with that in mind, I am going to suggest Gunslinger.
In particular, a Musket Master.
This is plausible, as one not from Golarion, would seek a weapon that he might understand, and believes has a chance against the fantastical creatures he encounters, and magic slinging Humanoids.
He will work with elements he knows, and has faith that it will protect him.
Later, he will learn to adapt, and assimilate elements of Golarion into his fighting style. Using Alchemical Cartridges, and enchanting his weapon.
The reason a suggest Musket Master specifically, is that it would makes sense to favor a larger weapon, with such a PC.
It also allows him to choose to go the way of Vital Strike, if firing more than once per round deviates from his concept.
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Well, I stated above, how Atheism works in Golarion.
To have a PC live in Golarion, and simply not believe that magic, and gods exist, is not plausible, unless something has caused the PC to be willfully ignorant of all evidence otherwise, and be mentally/psychologically challenged in some way.
Perhaps, he could start out that way, maybe coming into Golarion, and arriving in Alkenstar, but should he leave the magic dead country, the evidence will be indisputable.
Should he arrive in Alkenstar, it would make going Gunslinger even more plausible, and fit well into the concept, and character development.
The technic league doesn't publish, and the barbarian stories are more of the "strange spirits and metal monsters that kill and take away our people" variety. The league does not know the SCIENCE as science, they do recognise the technology as something different than applied magic, but they haven't learned a scientific discipline, they aren't that much better than the barbarians who believe the best way to program a robot is to smash it's head in with a club.How many fantastic stories are there in Golarion mythology about computers, chemistry, nuclear physics, Science based medicine, psychology (mass hallucinations as illusions) etc.?Well Numeria as a whole fits the bill
Hey, I'll have you know at least one President of the Galaxy considered a large axe as an appropriate way to reprogram a computer!
And now I'm imagining the look on the guy's face when his party shows him just how much magic he's carting around. 'Sword? Magic. Armour? Magic. And remember how you didn't die from someone turning you into a meaty quiver?'
Why not a Monk? They don't use magic at all. If you want to call KI a kind of Magic, there could be the RL version called CHI.
If you are worried about a powerful character, there is the Unchained monk or the Tetori monk.
Of coarse the the 'crazy' monk isn't out there trying to convert people to his reason.
So I also like the idea of a crazy Alchemist with his variety of chemicals that do real life things (explode) Forget about the Mutegenic stuff. Play the character like the mad scientist he is. Make him a Gnome so he can tinker (I'M not a Gnome! I'm a short person!!!)
Now you have a crazy Gnome....er...short person with bombs strapped to his chest trying to get you to believe he is right! (he is, isn't he?)
Yeah there actually is an area with a crashed ship now. Maybe he was planning on being a character from that area. I don't know for sure. he just asked me to help him with some character concepts.
Yeah but with the Technic League keeping such a huge lockdown on that, what are the chances that any of that actual technological jargon would ever be known or commonplace.
Among the league itself they may use the words computer or chemistry but outside those well sealed groups it is just some sort of weird magic to the rest of the world.
Just saying he should be consistent in his character concept with the world setting is all.
He has a good start with his concept. Lets see if he is really creative by making his insanity deny magic AND still fit in setting without relying on 20th century knowledge.
The title of the thread was logically plausible PC yes? It would need to be logically plausible in the setting.