Pathfinder - Lords of Gossamer and Shadow

[Johnny_Panic]

This is a General Discussion about adapting the Game setting of

Lords of Gossamer and Shadow

To be played with the pathfinder RPG system and not its native Dice-less one.

Hi all,
Of late there seems to be a lot of interest in using the pathfinder RPG system with the Lords of Gossamer and Shadow setting from Rite Publishing.

I am a new convert and big fan of this setting and game, I better say that 1st of all. I was a big fan of the old Amber (Diceless) game and I feel what what Dominic McDowall-Thomas of Cubicle Seven Entertainment said is true.
Lords of Gossamer and Shadow is the "The spiritual successor to Amber Diceless Role-Playing"

Is thread is NOT about Amber just so you know.

Its about using the setting of Lords of Gossamer and Shadow with Pathfinder RPG system.

If you need a Preview of the game it can be found here HERE The full Game PDs and other setting books can be found on the Rite Publishing paizo pages and their own site.

My hope is this thread will over a number of Topics linked to using the full range of pathfinder books, from paizo to 3PP with Rite Publishing setting of the Gossamer worlds that make up, Lords of Gossamer & Shadow

Topics I hope will be talked about are.

1: How could it be done, [going from Dice-less to Dice]
2: GM-ing such a game [Challenge levels and PC making]
3: Playing in such a game [Problems and solutions]
4: How to represent the setting [High/low tech/Magic/Psionic worlds in the same game]
5: other topics.

I hope for lots of interesting comments and talk.

I know there is a lot of interest out there.

[Johnny_Panic]

One area of adoption that intestates me is the, power levels.
In the game setting, players have a lot of power.

Pathfinder is know just as DnD 3.5 was for getting very iffy at higher levels

One GM on here started power levels at.
Gestalt 13 with one Mythic Rank.

Edward Sobel
Who is a player and GM I respect very much posted his about playing high level games.

I have GM'd high level stuff here are some of my rules that I have used:

1. CR: level 13 equals CR 12 period nothing above that
2. limit two templates: 1 inherited and 1 acquired
3. inherited must be applied before any character levels.
4. Gestalt levels only apply to PC levels
5. monsterous races that are base CR 1 or above you begin with the stats out of the book. no adjustments (unless covered as a PC race in another book (advanced race guide))
6. all templates are applied to both sides of gestalt.
7. no pre-game magic crafting (alchemy and mw stuff is fine)
8. all HP beyond first are half +1 method (applied to pc classes only)
9. Mythic tiers are separate from character levels

so hypothetically if I wanted to play an advanced ogre as my character
I begin with Ogre from the bestiary (no adjustments)
he is CR 2
add advanced to be CR 3
now I can add 9 character levels to equal CR 12
If I wanted to add an acquired template (such as holy creature)
then each CR adjustment will subtract from the PC levels (both sides of gestalt)

with Monsterous races there can be a real power level miss match from offered PCs.

Case in point with the Gestalt 13 with one Mythic Rank
LoG&S game. This PC Oneidros was offered as an application PC along with others. It coursed some discussion about power levels for players.

[Johnny_Panic]

So while this is one of the places to talk, about pathfinder and Lords Of Gossamer Shadow I an also seeking to run the game, in its native system, (Diceless)

LINK HERE

[thejeff]

I'm not really interesting in the conversion idea, but someone's already running such a game. Probably worth checking out.

Personally I like the rules and think the setting works better with them than it really could with PF rules.

[Johnny_Panic]

Yes I agree, I applied for that game and made comment, that mine was the only high tech PC offered up for selection. Pathfinder is primarily magic fantasy based system, and you could really see that in the slant the offered PCs had in that direction. Magic dragons, mages, the odd Psion, but all from classic fantasy type worlds. Non, modern world of Siri worlds. I was jumped on when I pointed this out. I did it after selection. I wish I had said something before. Al, I got in response was shallow comments from the selected, about wining, I can see it comming over that way, it was not ment to be, it was fare comment.

But the fact still stands pathfinder taints to fantasy /magic
The idea is the setting should be all world, dealing with that is a key thing that needs to be addressed if pathfinder is ever going to be used as an alt system for the setting.

[thejeff]

It may be that I'm still thinking in Amber terms, but I do think the game works better with a lean towards fantasy. Or at least down to modern and maybe near future sci-fi.

Depends on the sci-fi. Science fantasy type stuff works. Maybe Cyberpunk. There are plenty of scifi tropes that work to enforce personal abilities and close combat over more modern or likely tech and ranged combat styles. No matter how personally tough you are, it matters a lot less when the low Warfare guy calls in a saturation bombing raid.

I also usually use the conceit that tech doesn't work well on the Stair or from world to world - even to other worlds that have their own high tech. The more primitive the tech, the more likely it is to function, the more complex, the fewer places it'll work as you expect. Stuff you've paid points for is an exception.

That said, I'm thinking of concepts for the game you posted and one of them is a cyberpunk tech type. :)

[MordredofFairy]

Jonny, regarding matters from the other thread:

Jonny, I'm as saddened as you that I did not end up getting picked for the campaign.
I think I also understand what you were trying to say in the other thread. But thats a personal opinion. One that, obviously, not that many people shared, me admittedly among them.
With many entries, inevitably most of them will end up not getting picked. No different here than in other games.
I was rejected so many times in different recruitments, it's not funny. It's always annoying, too, especially if you take time to write a backstory and fluff, and (by hand) work everything out.
In many cases, it's simple enough to just keep those characters around, and try submitting them with alterations somewhere else. In others, thats not really valid, especially with such specialized recruitments like this one was.
But I learned one thing during those times:
That most of the time, it's not simply how awesome characters have been, but how well they fit in the group that the DM was trying to build.
If I submit an AWESOME oracle, but then another person comes up with a Cleric of a Deity fitting perfectly into the DM's campaign image, and another person comes up with a completely crappy rogue, and then they get picked? Guess what, it wasn't because DM thought my submission sucked. But that rogue was the only skill character submitted, and the Cleric just fit better, regardless of wether he was more well thought-out or not.
Picking from submissions is a very hard job, and one of the many reasons I don't feel ready to run a game myself on these boards, yet.
Ultimately, you need to put together a group that covers all the needs, can reasonably work together(extreme example: a Paladin+Chaotic Evil Demon Summoner), will get along, and, optimally, and thats important: Have a good track record of STICKING to games they become part of.
Someone said you are quite new to this? As said, so am I. 2 times, I was refused on this basis, because I had nothing to show that proved I would end up honoring my commitment, over a long time. Yeah, it sucks, If I don't get in on that basis, how CAN i prove to them that I'll stick around? But ultimately, if I was GM i would probably also look to pick people who will stick around.
ESPECIALLY in such campaigns as the Gossamer one. Because if someone drops, and a replacement is needed, it will take a while to re-recruit someone simply for the fact that for most people it's not easy creating this kind of character, with all the backstory and fluff needed.

What I'm trying to say: You simply came on too strong in the other board, and people called you out for that. No reason to be bitter, and no reason for either side to keep being confrontational.
As said, I enjoyed myself messing around in the threads(and doing Shenanigans with you) with Yin, but not getting picked? Yeah, it happens. I don't know the GM's reasons for picking who he did, I may not agree with those reasons IF i knew them, but it's his game to run, and his decision which he does not need to justify.
In his defense, 3 of the 6 picked, i would probably have picked too if it had been my choice, and would have been on edge about 1 more.
So 4 out of 6 matched does, in my book, speak for those characters.
The Battle Rabbit just was too strongly optimized for my taste, and the Monkey God I've never even seen.

I just came here to share these thoughts with you because you felt you were being trolled or attacked in the other thread. But it's more complicated than that I think. So i'd say let it go and look ahead.
Maybe another table will be opened, maybe somebody will drop, maybe someone will be inspired and make a similar game. Who knows. I'll be around, waiting for my chance to get Yin into a game. I suggest you do the same with Aannra.

[Johnny_Panic]

@MordredofFairy:

1st , thank you MordredofFairy for posting here, I wished to keep such things away from that games GMs work, taking up any more of his/her space would be wrong.

Now I think I need to knock this on the head now, not being picked for one game did not make me upset or angry. I posted a reply saying such.

Its seems the party line of picked players and a few still seeking in, is that Johnny is just upset. That Johnny is having a rant. That would make life simple, but it would also not be true.

I have been on here a long long time, This alt is now, Did you know you there is a limit to how many PCs a Alt can hold, Do a search for Johnny Panic see been here while. :)

But let me be clear, Johnny being Angry is a straw man argument to counter a fare point I made, which I wish I had made before selection, I did hint I felt there would be problems for any SiFi background based PC.

I now need to go open as there are points here realistic to thread subject, sorry

My point when commenting on that game as to make the observation, that of of ALL the application PC's only one was outside the Pathfinder norm of a magic fantasy setting. That I felt this was because pathfinder was picked as a rules set and that warmed background selection by Player not GM to magic fantasy settings.

A GM picked PCs he feels would work in a Pathfinder adaption of LoG&S. That is also my point, I don't think any sifi based PC would have worked well, in fact any high tech PC would have had real problems. What can be frustrating when making a PC is the clear lack of rules and equipment for modern day or sifi applicants in that pathfinder rules version of LoG&S. Magic has such a greater representation, from Classes, forms to spells and the so much larger selection of items.

my belief is that pathfinders core slanting to magic fantasy warps pathfinder rules adoption of LoG&S to that, and in doing so cropping out none magic fantasy back grounds.

I'm here to address the points raised in threads and PMs related to LoG&S pathfinder adaptation such as this. The ability to recognises problems and address them such as.

1:power level inequality when trying to make a power level close to LoG&S by means of Races, Templates, Gestalt's, mythic, high level level LoG&S pathfinder adoptions.

2: The shown lack of modern day and sifi applicants for LoG&S pathfinder adoptions.