I'm creating a Bloodrager for Giantslayer...and front line melee has usually not been my chosen style, so I'm having a hard time figuring out which should be top priority in my build....
Attack bonus and damage, or AC ?
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If you're a bloodrager AC is harder since you're giving it up to rage.
As a bloodrager Attack bonus is already getting a bonus from rage.
What options are you trying to decide between for these?
I'm actually doing a Changeling (hulking) with the Abyssal bloodline..
The bloodline already scales my claw/claw routine, plus hulking adds +1 to dmg with all melee...so I'm looking at 1D6+6 claw/claw...while raging.
Changeling also gives me +1 NA, and I'm looking at probably taking Lamellar (leather)armor which gives me a +4 AC, +1 NA, +2 Dex = 17 AC.
I'm planning on taking "Mothers Gift" at 1st level...which lets me choose either a +1 to my natural armor....or a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls....I'll be taking it again at 3rd level for the SR.
I'd say attack and damage rolls.
Also though be warned, having SR usually will be more of a problem then a help. Someone the same level as you will have a 75% chance to succeed. Each level higher is 5% more likely, or if they have something to boost their spell pen like being an elf. While it stops your allies from casting buffs on you reliably, especially if they aren't a full spell progression. So just be warned about that.
So unless I can find means to really boost the SR pretty high (beyond what the feat offers) it should probably be low priority ?
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That's what most people think, and I agree. Having a high saving throw will stop most spells and still let helpful spells work.
Good point...many thanks Chess Pwn ;)
OK...I'm thinking of going with the +1 to attack and damage with Mothers Gift at 1st level....and the +1 natural armor at 3rd level.
Taking the "Deft Dodger" and "Indomitable Faith" traits....
And taking Iron will and Lightning reflexes as I progress (In lieu of SR)
Take dodge instead of mothers gift for AC if you have the dex for it. They both give +1 AC but dodge stacks with everything and allies to touch AC.
??? a dodge bonus to AC is lost in any situation that you loose your dex bonus...
EDIT: OH...you meant "applies to touch AC"...I got ya now ;)
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Bloodrager gets Uncanny Dodge, so you generally aren't going to be flat footed after you reach second level.
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Dodge is typically the best +1 AC feat bump there is.
On a brighter note about saves. Half-orc Sacred tattoo+fate's favored is better for your saves than taking 3 different save feats. and once you get Jingasa of the Fortunate soldier you're getting +2 AC and a critical negation for 5k. That is basically a steal.
This would free up a feat.
Take the AP trait Roll with it and enjoy another +1 reflex and ability to negate a Giants critical 1/day.
I highly recommend Reach weapon. Natural attacks are nice and big damages...but you're going to be playing the reach game against giants...might as well match them in tatic.
Also if you're worried about AC then invest in UMD and Layer your defenses instead of trying to stack AC. AC isn't end all to damage. Negations and Mitigations will take you much farther then straight AC can. It also lets you focus on damage....the thing that makes them mad enough to attack you.
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It is pointless to try and keep your AC high enough to be worth anything, especially if you are going to be raging and enlarged. AC builds require heavy armor and a shield and are incredibly expensive and inefficient. You should have no problem getting you attack bonus up. I would focus on shoring up your will save and getting as many hit points as possible. You also want to make sure you have good ranged options or a good way to get to far away opponents.
Considering your bloodline, you are pretty much forced to go with attack over defense. Remember, your level 12 power boosts your rage bonus by another +2, but gives another -2 AC. Along with the ability to enlarge person when you rage.... yeah, your AC isn't going to be too hot.
If AC and saves are that much of a priority... you might want to consider the destined blood line instead and grab the fate's favored trait.
That results in a +2 luck bonus to AC and saves at level 4, to a max of +6 at level 20. If you combine that with beast totem and a decent armor, you can have fairly good AC.
It is pointless to try and keep your AC high enough to be worth anything, especially if you are going to be raging and enlarged. AC builds require heavy armor and a shield and are incredibly expensive and inefficient. You should have no problem getting you attack bonus up. I would focus on shoring up your will save and getting as many hit points as possible. You also want to make sure you have good ranged options or a good way to get to far away opponents.
I'm going to have to disagree here. A shield spell, or better yet a quickdraw light shield if the OP is willing to spend a feat on Quick Draw, plus a decently enchanted mithral breastplate along with the usual suite of other ac boosters keeps one's AC well within 50% against primary attacks as you level.
I'm taking Abyssal because mechanically it replicates the concept...that she can turn herself into an Annis Hag when raging...
I think if I can build up her saves,which seems easier, I can skip worrying about SR.
Between class and bloodline I already have a lot of bumps to attack and damage built in.
Dodge is looking like the better choice at 1st level...anything that applies to touch is well worth it.
Once I start getting spells I can also get Mage Armor and a few other buff spells that will improve the AC.
If I boost my saves sufficiently...is Raging Absorption a worthwhile feat investment ?
Another consideration...as Changeling is not exactly "optimal" given the -2 Con...I'm thinking I would be well served boosting my rounds of rage at least a bit.
So based on the advice I have gotten...I have more or less piece by piece scrapped the feat progression I was originally looking at :P
This is what I'm currently looking at and why...
1st Level: Tribal Scarring...Between the minus con a Changeling get's, and the Bloodrager slightly reduced hit die (compared to Barbarian)I'm thinking the +6 HP and +1 Will save will be more useful at low levels. I will also be taking HP as my favored class bonus.
3rd Level: Combat Reflexes...the extra AoO will be most useful since I will have extended reach at 4th level when I can jump up to large during Bloodrage.
I have some other feats I'm looking at...but some will be based on how my damage and to hit seem to be doing from my bloodline abilities.
I've got Power attack on the burner...but was waiting a bit to see how I fare before jumping in with it for a couple of reasons...
I can get a +1 to attack and damage with Mothers gift on my claws...not as high a bonus as the +2 dmg from power attack...but I don't sacrifice attack bonus and in fact get a boost to it. Also Power attack is one of my bloodline feat options...and I'm hoping to save those for when I start getting those slots.
I've got a +2 net bonus to will saves at 1st level, from Tribal Scarring and the trait Indomitable Faith...my wisdom mod is +2...so a net +4 Will save at 1st level. And Iron will is also on the burner...just in case ;)
Would taking a two level dip into Brawler @ 5th & 6th level, to get Brawlers flurry, and taking the Feral Combat Training feat be worth it for this build ?
If I'm reading right...that would give me iterative attacks with my claw attacks...
It may be worth it. That is for you to decide. It depends on if you want one big attack or many smaller attacks.
??? It wouldn't reduce my normal claw/claw routine...it would add an additional claw attack at the same damage...
If I later take Imp 2 wep, and Greater 2 wep, I can add additional attacks.
Ah...I got you. She will be pretty much using her claws exclusively, unless a situation warrants her picking up a bow to deal with an airborn threat or something of that kind...
The other thing I'm trying to weigh is...is the one extra attack gained from a two level dip and feat.... really worth the delay in DR :(
Sure my claw damage is pretty good...but I delay both a bump to my existing claw damage, and my DR by two levels...
As much as I would like her to have more attacks with her claws, I'm worried the payoff isn't worth the delay ?
This is my BloodRager alias.
Not optimized to the hilt, but extremely solid.
The feats here my give you some insight to planning later level combat.
Arcane Strike may be better suited as a stand in in for Power Attack, it costs a swift action to use so it can't be used all the time, but for the many attacks you will have, it can be excellent. 5th level feat most likely.
Blooded Arcane Strike should be close behind Arcane Strike, it allows you to use Arcane strike in Bloodrage without consuming a swift action.
As a thought, you are will have a terrible AC for most of your time.
I use the Spelleater archetype as a stop gap for my poor armor.
I would focus on your offensive might, your AC will normally be poor.
You need to have a clear focus for your attacks, I use my sword and feats for damage and my claws for backup weapons.
If you focus on your Claws as your primary weapons, Combat reflexes is not as good. You can get about the same results with a reach weapon and gain one AoO, then drop it and maul them with your claws.
Weapon focus, Mother's Gift, Arcane Strike and Bloodied Arcane Strike are going to be good picks at lower levels.
Ah...I got you. She will be pretty much using her claws exclusively, unless a situation warrants her picking up a bow to deal with an airborn threat or something of that kind...
The other thing I'm trying to weigh is...is the one extra attack gained from a two level dip and feat.... really worth the delay in DR :(
Sure my claw damage is pretty good...but I delay both a bump to my existing claw damage, and my DR by two levels...
As much as I would like her to have more attacks with her claws, I'm worried the payoff isn't worth the delay ?
Don't forget the feat cost needed to flurry with claws, Weapon Focus and Feral Combat Training, which also allow you to use Monk feats from Martial Flexibility.
If you just use the Brawlers unarmed damage, it is a small upgrade on the die rolled, but not much else.
The big draw for Brawler is Brawlers Cunning, Martial Flexibility, and a bonus Combat feat at second level.
I am ambivalent to the dip, with a strong preference to staying single a class as a Bloodrager.
Don't forget the feat cost needed to flurry with claws, Weapon Focus and Feral Combat Training, which also allow you to use Monk feats from Martial Flexibility.
If you just use the Brawlers unarmed damage, it is a small upgrade on the die rolled, but not much else.
The big draw for Brawler is Brawlers Cunning, Martial Flexibility, and a bonus Combat feat at second level.
I am ambivalent to the dip, with a strong preference to staying single a class as a Bloodrager.
I was looking at dipping at 5th & 6th level, using the bonus feat from Brawler to cover Feral Combat...but I really don't see my Dex ever getting up there enough to qualify for Improved and Greater 2 weapon fighting...so I would basically be going into it to get the one extra attack...which I'm now thinking I can do by just taking Haste as one of my spells.....
Brawler does give some other nice abilities and a good boost to my Fort & Ref save...but the more I look at it the less convinced my motive for taking it is worth the delay in my Bloodrager abilities....
keep in mind this is the giant slayer ap. Hence you will fight giants. Giants hit, accurately and hard. It's going to hurt. They also have a lot of hitpoints. The people you play with are going to need to disable things, or you're going to absorb a ton of damage.
keep in mind this is the giant slayer ap. Hence you will fight giants. Giants hit, accurately and hard. It's going to hurt. They also have a lot of hitpoints. The people you play with are going to need to disable things, or you're going to absorb a ton of damage.
That's a big part of the reason I'm concerned with things like DR, and the Energy resistance from my bloodline being delayed....
I'm thinking it may make more sense to just pump my existing claw attacks up as much as possible...get them through the potential high AC's we will be going up against, and do as much damage once through as possible...
I will be large from 4th level on, which will help....but most weapons won't match the damage I can dish out with my claw attacks...
Would the steelblooded archytype be worth considering ?
You give up uncanny dodge...but I can't imagine a lot of really stealthy Rogue giants will be featured in the AP :P
I'm taking a Horsechopper as my reach weapon, and a composite long bow, for those pesky airborne opponents...
@Deuxhero...we don't "require" campaign traits, as they often may not fit the character concept someone is building...
But yes, we do allow drawbacks, although I haven't gotten to the cementing traits and such yet.
Alas....I'm one of those folks who is always trying to find a way around having a familiar...even when I play a Witch ;)
I just don't like having a pet along for the ride...with the exception of an eidolon.
Besides...she becomes a bigger than norm Annis Hag when raging....she might eat it :P
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Keeping AC relevant is going to be hard when you're taking -6 to AC through your bloodline abilities. I'd look for ways to bypass AC. Miss chances are great. I've got good mileage from Snake Style on my Bloodrager 6/ Monk (Master of Many Styles) 2. The reach weapon will help defensively but it's not enough on its own.
The bloodline's resistances aren't that great; it's easy to beat them with Resist Energy or similar rings. It might be a better idea to trade that power out for Improved DR rage power x2 (using the primalist archetype). It's not great when you're facing more one-big-hit foes but DR 3/- is a big improvement on DR 1/-.
Keeping AC relevant is going to be hard when you're taking -6 to AC through your bloodline abilities. I'd look for ways to bypass AC. Miss chances are great. I've got good mileage from Snake Style on my Bloodrager 6/ Monk (Master of Many Styles) 2. The reach weapon will help defensively but it's not enough on its own.
The bloodline's resistances aren't that great; it's easy to beat them with Resist Energy or similar rings. It might be a better idea to trade that power out for Improved DR rage power x2 (using the primalist archetype). It's not great when you're facing more one-big-hit foes but DR 3/- is a big improvement on DR 1/-.
I was considering going primalist, and getting a boost to DR and "Come and get me"....wasn't sure that a bitty bump to DR was going to make much difference against giants though...
Thought it might be better to just not get hit in the first place :)
I wish Invulnerable rager was compatible with Bloodrager :P