I've mostly stayed out of this but I did have an honest question born out of curiosity:
Where did the Harbinger Daemon (properly known as Zelishkar of the Bitter Flame, from the Inner Sea Bestiary) come from? Greater Planar Binding doesn't work on them and Gate can't compel them to come (it's a unique being), so how did you get that body?
Ever seen Control Weather? Used repeatedly. It does exactly that.Lots of stuff here, but their interpretation of Zeus is pretty flawed. A 13th level Druid can cover everything he can do easily. Nothing he does is 9th level caster powerful.Zeus was able to chain up Prometheus (at least CR21 and arguably up to CR30) and torment him for eternity with an eagle eating his liver every day. He's also been known to turn people into mountains.
He has also been stated to be as powerful as the rest of the Greek Pantheon combined, so his power level can also be measured against all the feats that Apollo, Athena, Poseiden, etc have done.
Zeus also at one time flooded the entire world and wiped out humanity except for 1 or 2 survivors who threw rocks into the ocean to regenerate the human race. I betcha a 13th level druid can't do that...
You're kidding. Control weather only gets a 3 mile radius. Zeus would need hundreds of thousands of Control Weathers going off at the same time to get this effect. And then he would need to enchant thousands of stones so that throwing them into the water would produce people that have a permanent duration and breed true.
He isn't limited to just casting one you know... And the turning stones into people is just multiple uses of Polymorph Any Object.
I've mostly stayed out of this but I did have an honest question born out of curiosity:
Where did the Harbinger Daemon (properly known as Zelishkar of the Bitter Flame, from the Inner Sea Bestiary) come from? Greater Planar Binding doesn't work on them and Gate can't compel them to come (it's a unique being), so how did you get that body?
Drakainia have the following ability:
Birth Spawn (Ex)
As a full-round action, a drakainia can give birth to a spawn, which is a Large or smaller creature of her choice with a single random mutation. Each day she can produce any number of creatures whose combined total base CR does not exceed 3 + her Constitution modifier (usually 21).
Notably, the Harbinger Daemon is both 1; large or smaller and 2; CR 21. Also Birth Spawn doesn't prohibit the creation of unique creatures.
Ok. Now try that again with Commune. Which is what is being discussed.Shame it's not published in an actual book and said person starts the thread off with "none of this official". Kind of ruins all the effort you put into typing that up. You really should have read that part first.Actually, A) the thread doesn't start that way and James' response is not worded as such, and B) it's in the Core Rulebook, fourth edition. I'm looking at that section as I type this. Quoting the spell itself...
Maybe your CRB is just out of date. Also, three sentences is now considered a lot of effort? Really?Outer Plane, intermediate deity* DC 14/4 weeks 01-73 74-81 82-98 99-100
* When contacting the Outer Planes of the Pathfinder Chronicles setting, refer to the intermediate deity line of this table
The topic we were discussing at the time was the existence of greater deities in the Pathfinder setting, as you well know. This kind of reluctance to admit being wrong is why some people, even those who acknowledge you being well-versed in the system's elements and rules (myself included), are often less than enthused to converse with you on these topics. I've already explained why your plans with Commune rely on the goodwill and lenient rulings of a GM as well and how the two points tie together. I'm sorry you don't like it.
At this point, it seems clear you don't want to have a discussion, even one which is couched in acknowledgment of some fine work you've done. So, I'll leave you to have the last word. Congratulations on the victory by default, it was hard-won.
Ok. Now try that again with Commune. Which is what is being discussed.Shame it's not published in an actual book and said person starts the thread off with "none of this official". Kind of ruins all the effort you put into typing that up. You really should have read that part first.Actually, A) the thread doesn't start that way and James' response is not worded as such, and B) it's in the Core Rulebook, fourth edition. I'm looking at that section as I type this. Quoting the spell itself...
Maybe your CRB is just out of date. Also, three sentences is now considered a lot of effort? Really?Outer Plane, intermediate deity* DC 14/4 weeks 01-73 74-81 82-98 99-100
* When contacting the Outer Planes of the Pathfinder Chronicles setting, refer to the intermediate deity line of this tableThe topic we were discussing at the time was the existence of greater deities in the Pathfinder setting, as you well know. This kind of reluctance to admit being wrong is why some people, even those who acknowledge you being well-versed in the system's elements and rules (myself included), are often less than enthused to converse with you on these topics. I've already explained why your plans with Commune rely on the goodwill and lenient rulings of a GM as well and how the two points tie together. I'm sorry you don't like it.
At this point, it seems clear you don't want to have a discussion, even one which is couched in acknowledgment of some fine work you've done. So, I'll leave you to have the last word. Congratulations on the victory by default, it was hard-won.
You started talking about Contact Other Plane. I never have. I freely admit when I'm wrong. However, in this circumstance I'm not. Your explanation of the "flaws" in my Commune questions are unsatisfactory and runs into a number of issues RAW. IF you want to prove me wrong you'll need to address those rather then talking about a different spell and 3.5 rules and then claiming I'm wrong. Best of luck.
If Zeus has 100,000+ 7th level druid spell slots and thousands of 8th level wizard slots, he's WAY beyond what any pathfinder entity is capable of.
Plus the 100k+ control weathers must be all cast at the same time roughly and the Polymorph any Objects need some sort of enchantment to raise their duration from 20 minutes to permanent and the spell must be locked in a stone and triggered when thrown in water.
The example under polymorph any object specifically states that pebble to human is a 20 minute duration.
He only need to flood the Greek part of the world. It's a lot of spell slots but I see no reason to hold him to WBL.
The key word there was multiple.
Stone to Human - 20 minutes.
Human to Human - Permanent.
The Drakainia is Mythic Rank 10, and only available to non-mythic characters by GM fiat. The hypothetical fighter being discussed is mythic, but the wizard was supposed to be non-mythic. andreww said you could gate one in and control it? Mythic Adventures is clear about the GM being in control of the existence/rarity/uniqueness of mythic monsters, and I wouldn't think you'd base part of your strategy on something like that.
The Drakainia is Mythic Rank 10, and only available to non-mythic characters by GM fiat. The hypothetical fighter being discussed is mythic, but the wizard was supposed to be non-mythic. andreww said you could gate one in and control it? Mythic Adventures is clear about the GM being in control of the existence/rarity/uniqueness of mythic monsters, and I wouldn't think you'd base part of your strategy on something like that.
I'm non-Mythic, there is no rule preventing me from creating a Simulacrum of a Mythic creature though even with 0 mythic ranks. I'd have used other creatures that were RAW legal, but was prevented from doing so because they were unique (RAW this has no effect on Simualcrum). Drakainia are not unique, therefore it was allowed as an option. Additionally, even though Mythic Simulacrums RAW would not have their Mythic Ranks reduced, it was ruled that the Mythic Ranks would be halved. And again we're using all legal PF materials, so there's no reason not to use a bestiary IV monster for my build. My original body was going to be a Simulacrum of Hastur, which would have made my AC quite high.
But if the GM says a mythic monster is unique, it is unique; it says so on the first page of the Mythic Monsters section of Mythic Adventures (page 176). Surely you can agree that that particular portion of your strategy relies on a very lenient GM, right?
But if the GM says a mythic monster is unique, it is unique; it says so on the first page of the Mythic Monsters section of Mythic Adventures (page 176). Surely you can agree that that particular portion of your strategy relies on a very lenient GM, right?
Even if it *is* determined by a GM to be unique that's irrelevant. You can make a Simulacrum of Unique creatures in the first place. andreww ruled that I could not so I had to find a non-unique monster. The rules were against me here in the first place so no I don't believe my tactic requires a lenient GM since this was already going against RAW to my disadvantage.
You cant stack two polymorph any objects to increase the duration factor:
It is a transmutation (polymorph), the first effect is negated before the second is applied.
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
---
I think Cerberus's point was that somebody asked for a source demonstrating that Pathfinder's deities were intermediate, not greater.
That post is just how James Jacobs would run it. I need an official source that none of the Golarion Deities are Greater Deities please. And even if they are only intermediate, that's irrelevant because this is commune not contact other plane.
His response (in this particular part, anyway) doesn't go into whether contact other plane or commune is used... its just providing source material in regard to the Intermediate Deity question (I don't have the list/s in question, so I cant say whether the source is genuine or not).
Extrapolation further than that, as far as intent goes (no matter how natural such an extrapolation might be), is nothing more than speculation.
---
I don't think arguing against the Drakainia via unique/non-unique is worthwhile, as it is not based on RAW. That said, it is at least counter to the original intent of the contest for the wizard to use any mythic content.
If the wizard has to rely on creatures with Mythic abilities (even if summoned via non-mythic magic), then it is sort of an admission that the fighter cant be beat without the use of Mythic ability.
Sure, you only need it because of a 'non-RAW' ruling by the GM. Some things in this game are constrained by GM oversight, and the fighter had things ruled unfavorably as well. (some might argue that fewer things were unfavorable for the fighter, but that is irrelevant to the fact that the game *does* require significant arbitration)
Not being able to make simulacrums of unique creatures doesn't make any sense, because in that case you cannot make a simulacrum of anything, as every creature is unique
I couldn't even make a simulacrum of myself since I'm a unique, special snowflake. So sad, no making snowflakes of snowflakes.
Perhaps this is just a case of me assuming RAI then, as I have been assuming that Simulacrum required that the person making it had to know what it was that they were making. If there's only one of a thing in existence (or zero of them, subject to GM fiat), then the odds of your wizard ever hearing about it or knowing that it existed are essentially nil. I will concede that the spell does not specifically say that, but it seems utterly ridiculous to say otherwise. If the creature doesn't need to exist in your character's world in order to make a Simulacrum of it, then what would stop you from making Simulacra of all the monsters in Bestiary 5? They don't exist in Golarion yet, but that doesn't matter, per RAW?
@CWheezy, certainly, every creature is unique in its own way, but this is an RPG, and some words in RPGs have their own definitions depending on context. Gate, for instance, makes a distinction between summoning a particular type of creature versus a specific 'unique' creature. By your post above, are you trying to imply that Gate cannot compel any creature to your service, because they're all unique?
You cant stack two polymorph any objects to increase the duration factor:
It is a transmutation (polymorph), the first effect is negated before the second is applied.
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.---
I think Cerberus's point was that somebody asked for a source demonstrating that Pathfinder's deities were intermediate, not greater.
That post is just how James Jacobs would run it. I need an official source that none of the Golarion Deities are Greater Deities please. And even if they are only intermediate, that's irrelevant because this is commune not contact other plane.His response (in this particular part, anyway) doesn't go into whether contact other plane or commune is used... its just providing source material in regard to the Intermediate Deity question (I don't have the list/s in question, so I cant say whether the source is genuine or not).
Extrapolation further than that, as far as intent goes (no matter how natural such an extrapolation might be), is nothing more than speculation.
---
I don't think arguing against the Drakainia via unique/non-unique is worthwhile, as it is not based on RAW. That said, it is at least counter to the original intent of the contest for the wizard to use any mythic content.
If the wizard has to rely on creatures with Mythic abilities (even if summoned via non-mythic magic), then it is sort of an admission that the fighter cant be beat without the use of Mythic ability.
Sure, you only need it because of a 'non-RAW' ruling by the GM. Some things in this game are constrained by GM oversight, and the fighter had things ruled unfavorably as well.
There's a lot wrong here.
1. Irrelevant. If you original form when you cast the spell is human, the duration will still be permanent.
2. It doesn't matter what kind of deity they are Adept_Woodwright. It only matters in 3.5 hence why I dismissed his complaint.
3. The Wizard is not mythic. It is a testament to the Wizard's power that it can use mythic content without being mythic.
The Drakania is not unique RAW. And it is not counter to the contests premise as the Wizard is not Mythic. I don't consider it to be admitting anything other then "Wow Wizards are super strong."
Perhaps this is just a case of me assuming RAI then, as I have been assuming that Simulacrum required that the person making it had to know what it was that they were making. If there's only one of a thing in existence (or zero of them, subject to GM fiat), then the odds of your wizard ever hearing about it or knowing that it existed are essentially nil. I will concede that the spell does not specifically say that, but it seems utterly ridiculous to say otherwise. If the creature doesn't need to exist in your character's world in order to make a Simulacrum of it, then what would stop you from making Simulacra of all the monsters in Bestiary 5? They don't exist in Golarion yet, but that doesn't matter, per RAW?
@CWheezy, certainly, every creature is unique in its own way, but this is an RPG, and some words in RPGs have their own definitions depending on context. Gate, for instance, makes a distinction between summoning a particular type of creature versus a specific 'unique' creature. By your post above, are you trying to imply that Gate cannot compel any creature to your service, because they're all unique?
I can totally beat the Knowledge Check on Nocticula, my original choice. Really I can beat the Knowledge Check on anyone. And again, what prevents me from making Bestiary VI+ creatures is that RAW is restricted to published content. And again we're using all PF content, so unique creatures are included.
On the 300+ str to lift earth, here's an easy way out.
The GM has a Formorian Titan cast Wish for a greater effect. That effect could be an overpowered Ant Haul like effect to increase its carrying capacity high enough to lift Earth. The GM approves. The Titan can now lift Earth, but in a way that is not overpowered but balanced.
That's how I would handle it, at least.
Since weight is just mass x gravity, all you'd have to do is get into space where gravity is effectively nill and then you could life Earth with no problem!
(There are so many things wrong with my statement).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
oh god, what happened? why are there hundreds of posts? did people get angry? why are we talking about greek gods?
Since weight is just mass x gravity, all you'd have to do is get into space where gravity is effectively nill and then you could life Earth with no problem!
(There are so many things wrong with my statement).
except that lift, is the ability to pull things away from earth's gravitational center, making the entire idea completely impossible.
oh god, what happened? why are there hundreds of posts? did people get angry?
They started debating how much strength is needed to lift the earth and whether commune would actually work in Golarian considering that it's nearly impossible to tell the future based on Golarian lore.
You can beat the knowledge check on something the GM decides doesn't exist in your campaign world? What would the target DC be for that roll?
As far as making a Simulacrum of a deific being, I cannot imagine that would go over well with any deity you might choose. If I were to allow it at all (significant 'if'), it would be with huge repercussions, but sure, if you want to say there's no rule against it, and if you got a GM to sign off on it, then by all means, have your fun.
except that lift, is the ability to pull things away from earth's gravitational center, making the entire idea completely impossible.Since weight is just mass x gravity, all you'd have to do is get into space where gravity is effectively nill and then you could life Earth with no problem!
(There are so many things wrong with my statement).
Hence, "there are so many things wrong with my statement." :)
Commune is a divination effect. Divination spells can reveal NOTHING on the subject of a mInd Blank. Your questions to the gods generate only SILENCE.
The Undetectable means that anytime he's invisible, not even the gods can tell where he is or where he's going to be. So they can't tell you where to go to make him NOT INVISIBLE, because they can't see him, either.
Commune and Contact Other Plane are divination spells, and interdicted by Mind Blank just like all other divination spells. Your tactic is useless, and trying to see the future of someone even the gods can't see is downright useless.
I mean, seriously, you're trying to justify that the gods can see the future, where you'll reveal the invisible fighter so they can see him and tell you in the past where he is so you can go and reveal him to them so they can tell you where to go ad nauseam.
It doesn't work that way.
==Aelryinth
You really don't like admitting something is not the way you think it is.
----
I cited the rule: you can't have two polymorphs in effect at the same time.
your method
object(Rock)->Human = 20 minute duration polymorph effect.
cast again, object(human/with active polymorph) to human => permanent
the human gets to decide whether to accept or decline the polymorph.
Assume accept => 'it takes the place of the old spell'
Order of operations here matters. Your method relies on an instant in time where both polymorphs are in effect at the same time. This is incompatible with RAW.
In reality, it is
object(Rock)->Human = 20 minute duration polymorph effect.
cast again, object(human/with active polymorph)
human decides to accept spell, active polymorph fades
target becomes object(Rock)
spell effect becomes object(Rock)->Human => 20 minute duration.
----
You're right it doesn't matter. But you asked for a source, and it was provided. <-- where is this statement wrong?
----
Saying something is counter to the contest's premise is an opinion, and saying something is not counter to the contest's premise is also an opinion. Being destructively argumentative is off-putting in conversation, and has driven off posters on this board.
My question could perhaps have been better phrased as "if the wizard is super strong without mythic content, why does he need to dip his toes into mythic content to come out on top?"
It is certainly not wrong to do so, but the presented case would be stronger without any mythic content use at all.
Problem: the fighter never had mind blank because there was no character presented. (Isn't that how it always works against wizards?)
I guess my comment about Schrodingers Fighter was accurate.
|
Schrondinger's Figher...
You guys know you are using that wrong right? Schrondinger's Cat is a thought experiment where the cat really did exist, but was placed in a box where it had a 50% chance of dying. The experiment ends with the conclusion that the cat is both alive and dead until observed in some fashion.
Schrondinger's Cat has nothing to do with a non-existent applicant.
Ive provided a set of mythic abilities that has been unaltered in regard to the presence of Undetectable, Flying and Mind Blank since Jan 18.
That's hardly Schroedinger level adaptation.
The Schroedinger part of my build is contingent on ever getting answers to the tactics Ive presented. Ive been building against Schroedinger's wizard from the start, and literally all it will take to put me out of this conversation is providing enough counters that I run out of expendable resources to counter them...
The Drakainia is Mythic Rank 10, and only available to non-mythic characters by GM fiat. The hypothetical fighter being discussed is mythic, but the wizard was supposed to be non-mythic. andreww said you could gate one in and control it? Mythic Adventures is clear about the GM being in control of the existence/rarity/uniqueness of mythic monsters, and I wouldn't think you'd base part of your strategy on something like that.I'm non-Mythic, there is no rule preventing me from creating a Simulacrum of a Mythic creature though even with 0 mythic ranks. I'd have used other creatures that were RAW legal, but was prevented from doing so because they were unique (RAW this has no effect on Simualcrum). Drakainia are not unique, therefore it was allowed as an option. Additionally, even though Mythic Simulacrums RAW would not have their Mythic Ranks reduced, it was ruled that the Mythic Ranks would be halved. And again we're using all legal PF materials, so there's no reason not to use a bestiary IV monster for my build. My original body was going to be a Simulacrum of Hastur, which would have made my AC quite high.
LOL, neutral DM for the win am I right? hahaha.
For the record I think your build is awesome anzyr, props on putting it together.
Schrondinger's Figher...
You guys know you are using that wrong right? Schrondinger's Cat is a thought experiment where the cat really did exist, but was placed in a box where it had a 50% chance of dying. The experiment ends with the conclusion that the cat is both alive and dead until observed in some fashion.
Schrondinger's Cat has nothing to do with a non-existent applicant.
schrodinger's cat was a metaphore for the possible superposition of particles, not an experiment. superposition means that until the object is recorded it is effectively in all possible positions(states) that it could be, and thus, schrodinger's fighter makes perfect sense. it has everything because it has not been observed yet.
Frodo, the usage in this context is the generally accepted form:
Schroedinger's Cat thought experiment demonstrates that a particular object (Cat/Idea/whatever) exists in a total superposition of all possible states of its wave function (state of being, in this case) until it is observed.
In this particular scenario the 'cat' is the concept of the build, while 'alive/dead' wave function is the general super-position of all possible combinations of items/spells/character options available to choose.
We all seem to indicate that the concept of a build for a fighter exists, its just a matter of observing it now.
Im trying to collapse the wave function, piece by piece, until either the fighter is defeated by lack of further options, or succeeds
-Edit: Bandw2, the Physics Ninja
schrodinger's cat was a metaphore for the possible superposition of particles, not an experiment. superposition means that until the object is recorded it is effectively in all possible positions(states) that it could be, and thus, schrodinger's fighter makes perfect sense. it has everything because it has not been observed yet.Schrondinger's Figher...
You guys know you are using that wrong right? Schrondinger's Cat is a thought experiment where the cat really did exist, but was placed in a box where it had a 50% chance of dying. The experiment ends with the conclusion that the cat is both alive and dead until observed in some fashion.
Schrondinger's Cat has nothing to do with a non-existent applicant.
Yay for physicists! I was trying to think of a decent way to explain it, but you beat me to it. It's been a few years since I took a class covering quantum anything (quantum chemistry was the last).
I don't think I've ever been complimented before on my knowledge of physics... thank you, Adept and Bookrat.
thought i'd pop in: props to Anzyr for actually producing a build, and I will rescind my earlier jabs about the lack thereof. You've been a very good sport in all this, despite my disagreements with you.
I also had quite the chuckle at the lack of contenders on the martial side (not even a paladin since it was opened to them? really?) in andrewww's thread.
It's because Andreww changed the rules 3 seperate times after he posted the "official" rules. Why would anyone subject themselves to that?
If someone wants to actually run a contest that actually allows all the puished options instead of cherry picking the strong martial options to ban, then you might see someone take up the mantle.
Commune is a divination effect. Divination spells can reveal NOTHING on the subject of a mInd Blank. Your questions to the gods generate only SILENCE.
The Undetectable means that anytime he's invisible, not even the gods can tell where he is or where he's going to be. So they can't tell you where to go to make him NOT INVISIBLE, because they can't see him, either.
Commune and Contact Other Plane are divination spells, and interdicted by Mind Blank just like all other divination spells. Your tactic is useless, and trying to see the future of someone even the gods can't see is downright useless.
I mean, seriously, you're trying to justify that the gods can see the future, where you'll reveal the invisible fighter so they can see him and tell you in the past where he is so you can go and reveal him to them so they can tell you where to go ad nauseam.
It doesn't work that way.
==Aelryinth
This fighter starts having a lot of domains.
And still no fighter builds.
Schrodinger's fighter exists after all...
Ive provided a set of mythic abilities that has been unaltered in regard to the presence of Undetectable, Flying and Mind Blank since Jan 18.
That's hardly Schroedinger level adaptation.
The Schroedinger part of my build is contingent on ever getting answers to the tactics Ive presented. Ive been building against Schroedinger's wizard from the start, and literally all it will take to put me out of this conversation is providing enough counters that I run out of expendable resources to counter them...
Schroedinger's Cat thought experiment demonstrates that a particular object (Cat/Idea/whatever) exists in a total superposition of all possible states of its wave function (state of being, in this case) until it is observed.
In this particular scenario the 'cat' is the concept of the build, while 'alive/dead' wave function is the general super-position of all possible combinations of items/spells/character options available to choose.
We all seem to indicate that the concept of a build for a fighter exists, its just a matter of observing it now.
Im trying to collapse the wave function, piece by piece, until either the fighter is defeated by lack of further options, or succeeds
It seems like a pretty popular thing to throw around, without addressing posts that defend the choice. Maybe its the novelty of being able to say 'Schroedinger's Fighter'.
Commune is a divination effect. Divination spells can reveal NOTHING on the subject of a mInd Blank. Your questions to the gods generate only SILENCE.
The Undetectable means that anytime he's invisible, not even the gods can tell where he is or where he's going to be. So they can't tell you where to go to make him NOT INVISIBLE, because they can't see him, either.
Commune and Contact Other Plane are divination spells, and interdicted by Mind Blank just like all other divination spells. Your tactic is useless, and trying to see the future of someone even the gods can't see is downright useless.
I mean, seriously, you're trying to justify that the gods can see the future, where you'll reveal the invisible fighter so they can see him and tell you in the past where he is so you can go and reveal him to them so they can tell you where to go ad nauseam.
It doesn't work that way.
==Aelryinth
This fighter starts having a lot of domains.
And still no fighter builds.
Schrodinger's fighter exists after all...
This very thread has multiple fighter builds.
I had rules changed on me and I submitted a build. And honestly none of the Rules BigDTBone is complaining about being changed are actually relevant to a comparison of Mythic Fighter v. Wizard. Custom magic items shouldn't be allowed as it's not RAW. Leadership doesn't help show one class v. another, and Archmage doesn't work or works very very poorly at best.
This very thread has multiple fighter builds.Commune is a divination effect. Divination spells can reveal NOTHING on the subject of a mInd Blank. Your questions to the gods generate only SILENCE.
The Undetectable means that anytime he's invisible, not even the gods can tell where he is or where he's going to be. So they can't tell you where to go to make him NOT INVISIBLE, because they can't see him, either.
Commune and Contact Other Plane are divination spells, and interdicted by Mind Blank just like all other divination spells. Your tactic is useless, and trying to see the future of someone even the gods can't see is downright useless.
I mean, seriously, you're trying to justify that the gods can see the future, where you'll reveal the invisible fighter so they can see him and tell you in the past where he is so you can go and reveal him to them so they can tell you where to go ad nauseam.
It doesn't work that way.
==Aelryinth
This fighter starts having a lot of domains.
And still no fighter builds.
Schrodinger's fighter exists after all...
all of them are way over WBL, just saying.
edit: oh and one was fighter 1/wizard 19
This very thread has multiple fighter builds.This fighter starts having a lot of domains.
And still no fighter builds.
Schrodinger's fighter exists after all...
This thread has 4 fighter builds (on page 1, 4 and two on page 3 if I recall), and yours is the only legal one.
You said yourself that with your build that you did especially to fight Cthulhu, you would get killed.
So, no, there are no contestants to the wizard. Moreover, none has been sent to Andreww, not even illegal ones.
Custom items are most certainly RAW, leadership us a feat (a resource that a fighter affords more easily than anyone else), and archmage has several benefits that work perfectly well. But most importantly, all those options were nixed after the rules were posted.
Why should someone continue to bang their head against the wall? What else was Andreww going to ban after it got brought up? Literally 3 options in 3 days got shut down. There was no good-faith contest, and we shouldn't be acting like there was one.
This very thread has multiple fighter builds.This fighter starts having a lot of domains.
And still no fighter builds.
Schrodinger's fighter exists after all...
This thread has 4 fighter builds (on page 1, 3 and 4), and yours is the only legal one.
You said yourself that with your build that you did especially to fight Cthulhu, you would get killed.
So, no, there are no contestants to the wizard. Moreover, none has been sent to Andreww, not even illegal ones.
Because my "legal" build according to Andreww wasn't legal. The AC and Save items (purchased directly by the price on the chart) were banned as custom items.
Because my "legal" build according to Andreww wasn't legal. The AC and Save items (purchased directly by the price on the chart) were banned as custom items.This very thread has multiple fighter builds.This fighter starts having a lot of domains.
And still no fighter builds.
Schrodinger's fighter exists after all...
This thread has 4 fighter builds (on page 1, 3 and 4), and yours is the only legal one.
You said yourself that with your build that you did especially to fight Cthulhu, you would get killed.
So, no, there are no contestants to the wizard. Moreover, none has been sent to Andreww, not even illegal ones.
Because custom items are very literally not RAW. The pricings are guidelines for a GM to follow, not rules. Leadership doesn't help the Fighter anymore then it would help the Wizard and is obviously not allowed when the contest is and a quote "Mythic Martial v. Wizard", not "Mythic Martial and his level 18 Caster Friend v. Wizard and his level 18 Caster Friend." Finally, Archmage is very open to interpretation on whether it works at all. So again, not relevant to a RAW discussion.
There was a good faith contest, where both sides had options shut down. The Fighter side couldn't cope, the Wizard side could. Which is sad, since preparing a Wizard is way harder and more time consuming.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Custom items are most certainly RAW
Each custom items are to be adjudicated by the DM. Autorizing one or another would then not be so objective.
There are no RAW ways of knowing if a custom item should be valid or not.
Moreover, custom items are much more easy to get for the wizard, as she can craft them herself.
leadership us a feat (a resource that a fighter affords more easily than anyone else)
Fighters do not have more feats than anyone else, they have more COMBAT feats. That's different.
Leadership suffers the same limitations as custom items for the fact of determining if a cohort is "legal" or not.
You can make a search on this website to know the number of topics this subject provoked BTW.
and archmage has several benefits that work perfectly well.
If you ignore the fact that arcane surge spells are tied to your own CL, it might work. The fact is, they are actually using your own, so you can't even cast a lvl 1 spell with it (you can't cast a spell if you don't have a high enough CL, even if you have the slots).
And you weren't even forbidden from taking Archimage (neither in the first version or in the last).
But most importantly, all those options were nixed after the rules were posted.
Leadership was banned right at the start if I recall.
Custom items should be banned for the sole fact that you can't have 2 DMs that would have the same opinions on several custom items.
Why should someone continue to bang their head against the wall? What else was Andreww going to ban after it got brought up? Literally 3 options in 3 days got shut down. There was no good-faith contest, and we shouldn't be acting like there was one.
That's not true.
Because my "legal" build according to Andreww wasn't legal. The AC and Save items (purchased directly by the price on the chart) were banned as custom items.
I didn't notice your +4 luck/+4 insight bonus to AC items, amongst other things.
So, actually, none of the fighter builds in this topic were legal. The situation is even worse than I expected.
Because my "legal" build according to Andreww wasn't legal. The AC and Save items (purchased directly by the price on the chart) were banned as custom items.This very thread has multiple fighter builds.This fighter starts having a lot of domains.
And still no fighter builds.
Schrodinger's fighter exists after all...
This thread has 4 fighter builds (on page 1, 3 and 4), and yours is the only legal one.
You said yourself that with your build that you did especially to fight Cthulhu, you would get killed.
So, no, there are no contestants to the wizard. Moreover, none has been sent to Andreww, not even illegal ones.
Because custom items are very literally not RAW. The pricings are guidelines for a GM to follow, not rules. Leadership doesn't help the Fighter anymore then it would help the Wizard and is obviously not allowed when the contest is and a quote "Mythic Martial v. Wizard", not "Mythic Martial and his level 18 Caster Friend v. Wizard and his level 18 Caster Friend." Finally, Archmage is very open to interpretation on whether it works at all. So again, not relevant to a RAW discussion.
There was a good faith contest, where both sides had options shut down. The Fighter side couldn't cope, the Wizard side could. Which is sad, since preparing a Wizard is way harder and more time consuming.
Seeing as the posted fighter build in the thread had custom items, Andreww knew up front that they would be in play but waited until after his official rules post to ban them. There are many other options available but why should I waste my time having options shut down one at a time after the build rules are posted? After 3 days of trying to start a build but having to start over it just wasn't worth it.
After andreww wouldn't ban simulacrum and blood money the contest became pointless anyway.