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Clearly it didn't hurt him that much. He doesn't have a broken bone from what we can see, and is able to move around and even crack a joke.
Who have been an opportune time to create an illusion or mind control some of the mortals. He's very capable of that without a staff. What I mean is that it was the end of the movie, so he probably should have had a lot of fight left in him if it where not for that. Unless that was just another part of some unknown plan.
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Loki is a master manipulator, schemer, and trickster. However, given the culture he was raised in and his heritage, he's actually an able combatant. In the comics, he's faced off with multiple giants and won with ease. He's just not as good at it as Thor. His fight with Cap in Avengers shows he has combat skills and superior strength to Cap, but seeing as how he had bigger plans, he was probably a smidge surprised when Cap did punch him...but he's taken hits from Thor, so it was more like, "Huh. Mortals are a bit stronger than I thought. Oh well. No biggie."
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If Captain America surviving a blast from Ultron ruined the movie for you, then you were trying to not like it.It was not remotely close to ruining the movie for me, it just detracted from it when it seems such an easy thing to not include in it.
Same here. Since that one detail didn't 'ruin the movie' for me, I'm not sure what sort of reductionist straw man dismissal you were going for but missed the mark with here.
Quicksilver's death and the bizarre perception that 'bad luck' is too complicated a concept to introduce and that they had to therefore give the Scarlet Witch 'simpler' powers like telepathy and telekinesis, are far bigger quibbles for me than Cap shrugging off an attack from someone who was supposed to be a credible threat to people much tougher than Cap, like Thor and the Hulk.
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Quicksilver's death and the bizarre perception that 'bad luck' is too complicated a concept to introduce and that they had to therefore give the Scarlet Witch 'simpler' powers like telepathy and telekinesis, are far bigger quibbles for me than Cap shrugging off an attack from someone who was supposed to be a credible threat to people much tougher than Cap, like Thor and the Hulk.
I can live with it. The Scarlet Witch's powers are an ill-defined mess in the comics. They might as well call it "Gonna eff you up" power since there's no other rhyme or reason to it. That offers the writers a lot of narrative leeway, but it often ends up feeling a bit dues ex machina when her powers save the day. I have absolutely no problem with a bit of redefinition.
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Did you miss the part where she opened him up like a tin can?
Telekinesis isn't considered a power?
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I can live with it. The Scarlet Witch's powers are an ill-defined mess in the comics. They might as well call it "Gonna eff you up" power since there's no other rhyme or reason to it. That offers the writers a lot of narrative leeway, but it often ends up feeling a bit dues ex machina when her powers save the day. I have absolutely no problem with a bit of redefinition.
Quicksilver's death and the bizarre perception that 'bad luck' is too complicated a concept to introduce and that they had to therefore give the Scarlet Witch 'simpler' powers like telepathy and telekinesis, are far bigger quibbles for me than Cap shrugging off an attack from someone who was supposed to be a credible threat to people much tougher than Cap, like Thor and the Hulk.
Me and my friends do not read comics and were not familiar with Scarlet Witch as we watched the movie. I had no trouble understanding her powers - a bit of illusion/mind control stuff and making those red CGI effects that are physical - they can cut and block.
My friends, however, unanimously complained that her powers are ill defined and she can do whatever she wants. I disagree, I think they are pretty clear in the movie (she just has two unrelated powers with various applications). But if her comic book powers are even *more* all over the place, then it was a good decision to change them. It seems audiences are confused enough as it is.
Primarily, he can change his own body density, IIRC.
I think the lasers are purely from the Mind Gem; They're not one of his powers, per se, but a "gadget".
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I think the lasers are purely from the Mind Gem; They're not one of his powers, per se, but a "gadget".
Well, when you have an infinity stone as a gadget, you're in a good spot.
Can't he use the stone to make much more impressive things happen? I thought those things were supposed to be overwhelmingly powerful.
As others said, the invulnerability through the shield is part of the core premise for Captain America, as well as extremely high toughness, stamina, dexterity and strength. Surviving direct impact of supposedly lethal weapons without so much as a wound to show for it is not. During the entire "The Winter Soldier", the cap never took even a single bullet, for example.
Cap gets shot SEVERAL times by Bucky in the climax of the THE WINTER SOLDIER. At least three time, the last of which is through the back with a clear huge bloodstain on the front of his uniform. Which means that the uniform offered little to no protection to Cap. The uniform, at least during THE WINTER SOLDIER, is NOT bulletproof.
IIRC for most of Winter Soldier he was using the old outfit from the museum.
NOPE. Only for the final assault on the Oversight Helicarriers...
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Cap gets shot SEVERAL times by Bucky in the climax of the THE WINTER SOLDIER. At least three time, the last of which is through the back with a clear huge bloodstain on the front of his uniform. Which means that the uniform offered little to no protection to Cap. The uniform, at least during THE WINTER SOLDIER, is NOT bulletproof.
As others said, the invulnerability through the shield is part of the core premise for Captain America, as well as extremely high toughness, stamina, dexterity and strength. Surviving direct impact of supposedly lethal weapons without so much as a wound to show for it is not. During the entire "The Winter Soldier", the cap never took even a single bullet, for example.
That right there might have been the impetus for Stark upgrading his suit. After all, he did get the magnetic shield recall thing in between Winter Soldier and Avengers 2; it's not unreasonable to think he got other hardware upgrades at the same time.
I think the lasers are purely from the Mind Gem; They're not one of his powers, per se, but a "gadget".Well, when you have an infinity stone as a gadget, you're in a good spot.
Can't he use the stone to make much more impressive things happen? I thought those things were supposed to be overwhelmingly powerful.
Well, he did block Ultron from all access to the Internet.
He wore the SHIELD one for the initial action scenes, but ditched when he escaped from SHIELD/HYDRA the first time. You're right that he didn't get the old outfit til later, but he was in it or civvies for his fights with Bucky. Except for the first chase.IIRC for most of Winter Soldier he was using the old outfit from the museum.NOPE. Only for the final assault on the Oversight Helicarriers...
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me and it's really kind of minor at this point but CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE WINTER SOLDIER runs 2hrs and 16 min (roughly 7 - 8 minutes of that is closing credits). In that time we first see Cap in his original suit at around the 1hr 34 min mark right before the final big action set piece of the film. The last time we see him in it he's laying on the side of the river bank after being dragged out by you know who at the 2hr 1min mark. So his screen time in the suit is less than half an hour in a movie that's over 2hrs.
Aaaaaaaaaaand I think that I've filled my anal retentive quota for like THE REST OF THE YEAR at this point. Apologies...
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Captain America is significantly stronger and faster and tougher than the comic-book version, who is 'as strong as a dude can get,' but not technically superhuman. (This version of Cap can throw motorcycles at people, and punch people across the room!)
I agree with the spirit of your post Set but everything we have seen Cap do in the movies still seems to hold true to his comic book version of The First Avenger. The movie is trying to replicate "comic book" realism in any case.
Few people realize how Amazing a combatant Captain America is. In combat skill level, he is counted as a better fighter than Spiderman, Wolverine, Daredevil, Colossus, The Punisher, The Thing, The Hulk, the entire Wrecking Crew or Loki. The Taskmaster is in theory his combat equal but lacks Caps experience, and is on par with The Silver Surfer. Cap's fighting skills are surpassed by Thor, Hercules and Balder the Brave.
Even going by the old Marvel Super Heroes game rules (FASERIP YAAY), Cap can most definitely hurl a motorcycle (a red power stunt, he can throw up to 1 ton in this manner) and Slam opponents like a rag doll half a football field in distance away.
That was a teeny tiny laser beam that came out of ultrons butt. How do we know stark didn't have that beam on there as a back up welding torch or it was deliberately designed as a stunner vs normal humans or something?
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Few people realize how Amazing a combatant Captain America is. In combat skill level, he is counted as a better fighter than Spiderman, Wolverine, Daredevil, Colossus, The Punisher, The Thing, The Hulk, the entire Wrecking Crew or Loki. The Taskmaster is in theory his combat equal but lacks Caps experience, and is on par with The Silver Surfer. Cap's fighting skills are surpassed by Thor, Hercules and Balder the Brave.
How would you even begin to prove something like this?
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Until the Hulk slammed him around like a rag doll. "Puny God."And, again, he wasn't really injured so much as shocked and a little bruised by that.
When he's fighting Thor, he first has Odin's spear, Gugnir, and then later the Infinity Stone scepter. That "puny god" scene likely ends differently if Loki's got either and just blasts the Hulk into next week or the next county. Either weapon has that kind of power.
Hilarious moment, granted, but ... played for laughs and not indicative of how a battle between the two might go, were Loki armed. Thor did all the hard work by disarming him.
Loki receives a full on bull rush from the Hulk at the 2hr mark. Hulk slams him around like a rag doll in that SAME minute.
Loki is still trying to SLOWLY crawl away at 9min later and he's in obvious pain.
I dont think that he's just shocked. He's HURT.
Captain America is significantly stronger and faster and tougher than the comic-book version, who is 'as strong as a dude can get,' but not technically superhuman. (This version of Cap can throw motorcycles at people, and punch people across the room!)I agree with the spirit of your post Set but everything we have seen Cap do in the movies still seems to hold true to his comic book version of The First Avenger. The movie is trying to replicate "comic book" realism in any case.
Few people realize how Amazing a combatant Captain America is. In combat skill level, he is counted as a better fighter than Spiderman, Wolverine, Daredevil, Colossus, The Punisher, The Thing, The Hulk, the entire Wrecking Crew or Loki. The Taskmaster is in theory his combat equal but lacks Caps experience, and is on par with The Silver Surfer. Cap's fighting skills are surpassed by Thor, Hercules and Balder the Brave.
Even going by the old Marvel Super Heroes game rules (FASERIP YAAY), Cap can most definitely hurl a motorcycle (a red power stunt, he can throw up to 1 ton in this manner) and Slam opponents like a rag doll half a football field in distance away.
I get it!
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Anyone complaining about Captain America taking a hit from Ultron:
Re-watch the Winter Soldier. Without armor, he takes at least a dozen hits from the Winter Soldier's bionic arm...which is shown to crack concrete when it hits it.
Later, he gets shot four times and stabbed with the same arm holding a knife (and that arm had been shown cutting sheet metal with a knife earlier). Y'know when he slows down? After the third shot (plus the knife wound). He got shot once in the torso, then once in the shoulder (and since both were bleeding, they weren't stopped by the armor) and still seemed to be operating at full capacity.
And that was all without any armor from any time later than 1945. With his armor upgraded a bit by Stark? I have no problem with him taking a single hit with minimal damage. Nor should anyone else, really.
Hell, an unaugmented and unarmored human survived Ultron's blast earlier in the movie. Any loss of threat he had came there, not when Captain America took the hit.
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Loki is a master manipulator, schemer, and trickster. However, given the culture he was raised in and his heritage, he's actually an able combatant. In the comics, he's faced off with multiple giants and won with ease. He's just not as good at it as Thor. His fight with Cap in Avengers shows he has combat skills and superior strength to Cap, but seeing as how he had bigger plans, he was probably a smidge surprised when Cap did punch him...but he's taken hits from Thor, so it was more like, "Huh. Mortals are a bit stronger than I thought. Oh well. No biggie."Until the Hulk slammed him around like a rag doll. "Puny God."
Loki was always "The Trickster" god, he is a d6 Rogue not d10 Warrior. He was considered a weakling (physically speaking) even compared to run of the mil Asgardians.
His magical powers though have been toned down quite a notch in the movies. He cant fly, teleport, or cast offensive spells for example.
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He may be basing his opinions a lot on the ratings from the old Marvel Super Heroes RPG. Therein, Thor and Hercules are by far the best combatants, the justification being vast powers and intensive training backed by millennia of experience in combat. Cap is considered the ultimate human fighting machine.Few people realize how Amazing a combatant Captain America is. In combat skill level, he is counted as a better fighter than Spiderman, Wolverine, Daredevil, Colossus, The Punisher, The Thing, The Hulk, the entire Wrecking Crew or Loki. The Taskmaster is in theory his combat equal but lacks Caps experience, and is on par with The Silver Surfer. Cap's fighting skills are surpassed by Thor, Hercules and Balder the Brave.How would you even begin to prove something like this?
Also from The Marvel Universe, the monthly comic encyclopedia which was cannon back in the day.
Loki was always "The Trickster" god, he is a d6 Rogue not d10 Warrior. He was considered a weakling (physically speaking) even compared to run of the mil Asgardians.
His magical powers though have been toned down quite a notch in the movies. He cant fly, teleport, or cast offensive spells for example.
Loki is weaker compared to asgardians like Thor, but as shown in the first Avenger Movie, he is much stronger and durable compared to someone like Captain America. And as shown in Agents, a "normal" Asgardian can not be stopped by mundane weapons. Someone like Loki, the Warriors three or Sif would need really heavy weapons to be stopped.
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Loki is weaker compared to asgardians like Thor, but as shown in the first Avenger Movie, he is much stronger and durable compared to someone like Captain America. And as shown in Agents, a "normal" Asgardian can not be stopped by mundane weapons. Someone like Loki, the Warriors three or Sif would need really heavy weapons to be stopped.Loki was always "The Trickster" god, he is a d6 Rogue not d10 Warrior. He was considered a weakling (physically speaking) even compared to run of the mil Asgardians.
His magical powers though have been toned down quite a notch in the movies. He cant fly, teleport, or cast offensive spells for example.
I was just comparing the Asgardian gods above. Not other super powered Marvel personas.
Loki, while an "Asgardian wimp" was physically stronger than Spiderman, The Beast, The Red Skull, Captain America or Dr. Doom, capable lifting or pressing 25 TONS according to the Marvel Universe.
Well this will give me nightmares.
Why!? Why did I click on that!?!
Loki is weaker compared to asgardians like Thor, but as shown in the first Avenger Movie, he is much stronger and durable compared to someone like Captain America. And as shown in Agents, a "normal" Asgardian can not be stopped by mundane weapons. Someone like Loki, the Warriors three or Sif would need really heavy weapons to be stopped.Loki was always "The Trickster" god, he is a d6 Rogue not d10 Warrior. He was considered a weakling (physically speaking) even compared to run of the mil Asgardians.
His magical powers though have been toned down quite a notch in the movies. He cant fly, teleport, or cast offensive spells for example.
I was just comparing the Asgardian gods above. Not other super powered Marvel personas.
Loki, while an "Asgardian wimp" was physically stronger than Spiderman, The Beast, The Red Skull, Captain America or Dr. Doom, capable lifting or pressing 25 TONS according to the Marvel Universe.
I get the impression that the Movie Loki is a much better fighter then his comic book counterpart.
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I get the impression that the Movie Loki is a much better fighter then his comic book counterpart.
Seems that way. Comic book Loki would never have gotten into a spear vs. hammer fight with Thor (as in the end of the first Thor movie).
Comic book Loki is all about throwing magical zaps and using other spells to fly, teleport, generate illusions, grow to forty feet tall and yell at people (but not actually fight, just posture!), etc.
When dealing with Thor directly, instead of mano-e-mano, he usually throws something (or somebody) else at him, like by empowering the Absorbing Man or Wrecking Crew to run interference, or summoning up a bunch of frost giants or whatever.
About the only thing movie Loki and comic Loki have in common is a fondness for illusions and a fabulous haberdasher.
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Nah, stealth actually worked in 1E.
backstab sure as hell didn't.