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My whole party gets free story and upbringing feats.
One of my players chose nemesis as his story feat.
His character is a female catfolk who was raised by elves, and is the only survivor of a drow attack on her family's caravan.
Her nemesis is the drow anti-paladin who was behind the attack.
He's a devoute follower of Socothbenotoh and and complete and utter bastard. (He's also half-fiend due to demonic ascension plans.)
It's been confirmed that the Slayer's older sister is alive and been a pleasure slave of this drow since she was captured. Her tiefling daughter was recently used as bait to lure the party into a trap.
Now my question of meanness is.
Is it too mean for the drow to have reanimated the bodies of the slayer's parents into undead abominations and have them attack and try to kill their daughter? (graveknight for the dad, not sure what the mum would be yet) Or would that just be too mean?
Regardless of mean-ness, you can't purposefully make someone a Graveknight. It's either spontaneously generated, or by choice.
I'd pick a different kind of undead.
In my book: No. It just makes the player characters hate him even more. Alternatively, this can result in a "putting them to rest" scenario where the PCs liberate the reanimated bodies from their undeath.
To elaborate why I mentioned the Graveknight thing, it implies that his dad was a "vile and evil warrior" in life (since that's the only way you become a Graveknight), which might be a bit more of a kick in the nuts than you were going for.
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I would be honored if a DM did something this cool for me. Yes it would devastate my character, but ooc I would be nerding out over how cool it is.
That is hilariously apalling. You should continue along this plan.
Just make sure there is a good solid reward to overcome the sheer horror of it all. A mix of magical rewards along with a blessing. For example, putting her undead parents to a proper burial may give her a blessing from a good aligned deity that allows her to commune with her parents once a month or once a year; the rarer it is, the longer and more detailed she can communicate. Perhaps the once a month she could talk with them for an hour and not only chit chat, but get guidance on a quest. If it were once a week, it would be 10 minutes and she could only ask yes or no questions. Once a year would be practically useless, but conceptually fantastic - perhaps an entire day and she can actually see and interact with them.
I have also done worse than this to my players. What if the reason the girl's dad is a graveknight is because he was secretly in kahoots with the Drow from the very beginning!
Dun dun dunnnn.
What if she was supposed to be their collective sacrifice to appease his and the Drow's god?
Actually, this sounds like a really bad young adult novel now.
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I have also done worse than this to my players. What if the reason the girl's dad is a graveknight is because he was secretly in kahoots with the Drow from the very beginning!
Dun dun dunnnn.
What if she was supposed to be their collective sacrifice to appease his and the Drow's god?Actually, this sounds like a really bad young adult novel now.
....
I like this....
I really really really like this.
Now for what sort of undead her mum was turned into.
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Oh and her parents died when she was just a tiny kitten (eyes weren't even open yet)
Only reason she remembers them is because she recently got a vision for Calistria that her mother was a Calstiran cleric and that she better avenge her mother.
Two of the Party have the feat Nemesis.
My Boyfriend is the other. His nemesis is his character's mate's great-great grandfather who is a racial supremest Ulfen Were-tiger. (Mythic tier 10). He's pissed as hell that his great-great granddaughter (fanglord skinwalker) has reproduced with a Shoanti mongrel
I've decided that the two nemesis are now working together because they have a common goal. Neither one is extremely prone to backstabbing. One is a racial purist (as in his bloodline of were-tigers is better than everyone else) asshat. The other is a taboo breaking hedonist.
I would ask, what's the drow's motivation? I mean, sure, he's drow and being a mean bastard, but why? Why did he attack the caravan? Was it for personal reasons? Did he animate the parents to get back at his pleasure slave for some slight? It sounds weird, but if you're going to have this villain with re-occurring depth, I suggest thinking of his motivation. Maybe he's actually in love with the pleasure slave, but due to his sick and twisted mind, this is how he shows it? Maybe that's why he attacked the caravan in the first place, because he was a creepy stalker? Or was it just a random attack (in which case, why spend the effort to animate the parents)?
I feel as long as there's a reason, twisted but logical from that twisted perspective, than there's no such thing as too far. After all, an evil mind, the ends justify any and all extreme means.
What level is the party? Figuring out what the mother should be should have their level play into it. After all, I'm always partial to Banshees, but that wouldn't be appropriate for a low level party.
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Attacked the caravan then committed necrophilia acts with the dead bodies (and worse with the dying) as an act of complete evil and taboo breaking to become a half-fiend.
He animated the mother to have a undead pleasure toy.
The father, as stated before, was in on the whole thing as an offer of power. He was turned into a graveknight as his reward.
The Drow is going after Sylphiel (The slayer) because he wants "the matched set" (as in her, her older sister, and her undead mother) for his sick and twisted pleasure.
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What level is the party? Figuring out what the mother should be should have their level play into it. After all, I'm always partial to Banshees, but that wouldn't be appropriate for a low level party.
Level 14/Mythic Tier 7 and continuing to skyrocket
Both Nemesis are Mythic tier 10 and at least 30 class levels with advanced templates.
The party can't take them on as of yet. But it won't be long before they will be able to.
And the party isn't even optimized.
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Well, with your edit I suppose there is some, albeit forced, connection to her birth parents, but a vision from Calistria or not, I cannot see quite as much effect to having the birth parents return as undead as you think. They are a nebulous part of her past, but there was never the real connection.
Throwing the undead parents she never knew and was never attached to would most likely be more of a "Sorry I never got to know you, but you are unholy abominations and must be put to rest", than a deep emotional tug.
Now for a more visceral impact, have the anti-paladin send her adoptive parents after her as undead. Those are the ones who raised her, the ones she has known her whole life, the ones that shaped her upbringing... have them show up as some twisted undead creatures and it is a brutal, fresh wound, that has more direct bearing.
To elaborate why I mentioned the Graveknight thing, it implies that his dad was a "vile and evil warrior" in life (since that's the only way you become a Graveknight), which might be a bit more of a kick in the nuts than you were going for.
While this is the book-description of graveknights, there are several cases in the lore, that Graveknights were raised (the most prominent case are the Knights of Ozem, who tried to infiltrate Geb).
Oh and her parents died when she was just a tiny kitten (eyes weren't even open yet)
If she was a helpless kitten when her parents died, how did she escape? Did her mom just grab her by the ribs, yell at the farmer already running from the drow attack to "go long" and then chuck the kitten like a quarter-back? Bonus points if the PC actually likes to fly.
She would have no idea what her parents actually look like, but maybe she knows what they sound like. Maybe her mother used to sing to her, or she remembers the sound of her father's voice.
The party could be advancing down a cave, and from beyond the darkness the echoing lullabies of a woman's voice wrap around her neck and leave her breathless. Perhaps she did open her eyes just enough to see her parents, possibly while spiraling through the air towards a fleeing farmer who evidently is good at catching things, and does remember them.
Look into trauma theory if you're interested in learning more. There is a ton of stuff you can pull up for her as repressed memories that are now coming to the surface as she delves into her past.
You could also implement a piece of work that makes them travel through Leng to get to the Drow, and there her repressed nightmares could come to life. What's worse than remembering the screams of your dying parents? Shadowy and misshapen figured that represent that memory who are now trying to kill you! Enjoy.
If Calistra is saying "Go get some sweet sweet vengeance" mum probally did not raise willingly. So either Vampire Spawn or the mindless are the choices.
Ahh, Calistria, the goddess who brings all the boys to the yard, and then promptly ties them to a bed.
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JuJu Zombie, Vampire, or mindless undead are the top choices for mum I think. If Calistra is saying "Go get some sweet sweet vengeance" mum probally did not raise willingly. So either Vampire Spawn or the mindless are the choices.
The father has the ability (as a graveknight) to control the undead. So likely intelligent. (likely raised by yet another servant of the Drow Antipaladin who started the whole mess)
Wow. Sky's the limit then. I'd go with a Banshee with levels. Mythic out the banshee. Did any children die during this caravan raid? One of the creepiest things my players have ever come across was an attic whisperer. Not a high level thing, but really throws into question, who's the dead child?
Just make sure there is a good solid reward to overcome the sheer horror of it all. A mix of magical rewards along with a blessing...
Because it's a story feat, there is already a sizable reward (a +2 inherent bonus to an ability score in this case.) Which isn't to say there can't be additional rewards, but they don't need to be extravagant.
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Oh and her parents died when she was just a tiny kitten (eyes weren't even open yet)If she was a helpless kitten when her parents died, how did she escape? Did her mom just grab her by the ribs, yell at the farmer already running from the drow attack to "go long" and then chuck the kitten like a quarter-back? Bonus points if the PC actually likes to fly.
She would have no idea what her parents actually look like, but maybe she knows what they sound like. Maybe her mother used to sing to her, or she remembers the sound of her father's voice.
The party could be advancing down a cave, and from beyond the darkness the echoing lullabies of a woman's voice wrap around her neck and leave her breathless. Perhaps she did open her eyes just enough to see her parents, possibly while spiraling through the air towards a fleeing farmer who evidently is good at catching things, and does remember them.
Look into trauma theory if you're interested in learning more. There is a ton of stuff you can pull up for her as repressed memories that are now coming to the surface as she delves into her past.You could also implement a piece of work that makes them travel through Leng to get to the Drow, and there her repressed nightmares could come to life. What's worse than remembering the screams of your dying parents? Shadowy and misshapen figured that represent that memory who are now trying to kill you! Enjoy.
She was granted a vision by Calistria of the attack, when the goddess reached out to her. (decided that she was ready to start on the road to vengence)
Her mother used magic to hid herself, then put the baby in a hollow tree. She was found there by the Elves of Crying Leaf who managed to drive off the rest of the drow (the anti-paladin had long since left his allies to looting and pillaging, and taking the fall)
The one problem with banshee is it cuts out the "sex slave" motivation he was going for.
Unless he feels like inventing Ghost Touch condoms or something.
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Wow. Sky's the limit then. I'd go with a Banshee with levels. Mythic out the banshee. Did any children die during this caravan raid? One of the creepiest things my players have ever come across was an attic whisperer. Not a high level thing, but really throws into question, who's the dead child?
No kids died...
It would have been better for her older sister if she HAD died...I'm thinking of making her older sister a broken soul, and letting her figure out how to help her sister get her sanity back.
The one problem with banshee is it cuts out the "sex slave" motivation he was going for.
Unless he feels like inventing Ghost Touch condoms or something.
A +1 ghoust touch amulet of mighty fists works just fine to make his unarmed attack ghost touch.
And, of course, an obligatory reference to the fact that any part of the body can be an unarmed attack. I suggest curious readers look at the tanuki's stats and its ability to make a slam attack while both hands are full with its quarterstaff.
It only lasts a round a level.
Which might be a good way to inject some minor bit of levity into the situation.
"Well he killed your parents, raised them as undead, and rapes your mother on a daily basis. But hey, at least all the other Drow call him Speedy Gonzalez behind his back."
I would go with Penanggalenfor the mother, so she can try to "embrace" her daughter. Maybe guecubu for the dad due to how eviscerated the corpse was when the nemesis was finished taking him apart peice by peice while defiling him.
As far as meanness goes, I'd ask the player how awesome they thought what has happened so far is. If these is hesitation and distaste I would talk it over as friends. If the answer is an immediately apparent degree of excitement and expression of awesomeness and "man I can't wait to kill this guy" then proceed.
I would point out that it doesn't exactly have to make logical sense. The antipaladin villain isn't right in the head to start with. Perhaps he gets his rocks off by dominating and controlling her? Perhaps he gets happy watching the mother watch him take the daughter while she's powerless to do anything? Don't think so "physical".
Just make sure there is a good solid reward to overcome the sheer horror of it all. A mix of magical rewards along with a blessing...Because it's a story feat, there is already a sizable reward (a +2 inherent bonus to an ability score in this case.) Which isn't to say there can't be additional rewards, but they don't need to be extravagant.
That's a good bonus. Not as cool as being able to commune with your dead parents after getting revenge for them and bringing their corrupt bodies to rest, but a good bonus. :)
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When I saw the thread title I assumed this was going to be regarding some disagreement over a rules question or something.
I'd say you're actually being incredibly kind to the player going to all this effort.......you're being hellish mean to their character of course ;P
Given that they came up with such a grim backstory and picked the nemesis trait then pile the misery on!
I just don't want to be too triggering to the player.
I mean the sick monster that is their nemesis does not have ANY taboos.|
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One more thing, one of the party has insanely high knowledge. But there is a problem.
Too high knowledge might cause trouble. However, I don't see how having even 30 or higher bonus to your knowledge will let you know that the skeleton you're looking at is a skeletal champion just by looking at it. (once it starts acting, that's a different story) But on sight?
Same with the mother being a vampire, espically with her being a catfolk, and covered in fur. The fangs are already sharp, and it's not easy to tell that she's pale from undeath.
One more thing, one of the party has insanely high knowledge. But there is a problem.
Too high knowledge might cause trouble. However, I don't see how having even 30 or higher bonus to your knowledge will let you know that the skeleton you're looking at is a skeletal champion just by looking at it. (once it starts acting, that's a different story) But on sight?Same with the mother being a vampire, espically with her being a catfolk, and covered in fur. The fangs are already sharp, and it's not easy to tell that she's pale from undeath.
Skeleton vs Skeleton Champion: An hint of intellect behind the movements could give it away. Perhaps there is something different about the eye holes in the skull? Something minor that only someone who has studied such things would know.
Catfolk vs Catfolk Vampire: Little more difficult, but perhaps there is something in their smell or something about their fur coat (now giving +6 Natural armor) that would normally be overlooked. The PRD description talks about them having a hardened, feral look to them.
The player put a heavy concentration into the skill. I'm inclined to allow them to benefit from such.
Add a couple numbers to the DC, I would guess.
That said... I have long wished for something like this in one of my games. Seems my last group wanted to play Happy-Murderfinder, with a lot of murderhoboing. Keep trying to get my fiance to GM, since she's got some fantastic plot ideas, but that's not gonna happen any time soon thanks to our (now defunct) band of selfish murderhobos who wanted to break GMs and get away with becoming more powerful than gods at level 1 (and were used to it thanks to the GMs letting them do it).
Mean to the player? No. To the character? Atrocious. Keep goin'. This is the kind of villain that players talk about for years after a game.
This actually sounds pretty darn awesome. Though, as mentioned I wouldn't go with graveknight. I mean, I might mechanically (except for the regenerating armor bit) but the fluff behind the graveknight probably doesn't fit.
I think vampire spawn might work really well. A vampire under the control of the antipaladin turned them into spawn and now he uses them as play things to amuse himself.
Actually, I was thinking a Juju Zombie works. Cast Gentle Repose every day, and she won't degrade. Antipaladin's don't have it, but frankly, I'd just take a touch of narrative and say the demon lord is granting the spell anyway.
Well, with your edit I suppose there is some, albeit forced, connection to her birth parents, but a vision from Calistria or not, I cannot see quite as much effect to having the birth parents return as undead as you think. They are a nebulous part of her past, but there was never the real connection.
Throwing the undead parents she never knew and was never attached to would most likely be more of a "Sorry I never got to know you, but you are unholy abominations and must be put to rest", than a deep emotional tug.
Now for a more visceral impact, have the anti-paladin send her adoptive parents after her as undead. Those are the ones who raised her, the ones she has known her whole life, the ones that shaped her upbringing... have them show up as some twisted undead creatures and it is a brutal, fresh wound, that has more direct bearing.
It is not uncommon for adopted children or the children of divorce that have little contact with their non-custodial parent to idealize their parent(s) since they never had the chance to have a normal, contentious relationship with them. I know a step child who had no contact with his father past the age of 18 months who figured, into his adult years, that all his problems would be solved if only his mom and biological father, who had not even occupied the same room at the same time in 2 decades and are both happily remarried, got back together so they could all be a real family together.
Imagine discovering that the absent parent you've idealized and pined for all these years wasn't just a victim of a horrible crime but was actually in on that crime (the father) or is still being victimized (the mother). That could be very traumatic; exactly what OP seems to be going for.
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One more thing, one of the party has insanely high knowledge. But there is a problem.
Too high knowledge might cause trouble. However, I don't see how having even 30 or higher bonus to your knowledge will let you know that the skeleton you're looking at is a skeletal champion just by looking at it. (once it starts acting, that's a different story) But on sight?Same with the mother being a vampire, espically with her being a catfolk, and covered in fur. The fangs are already sharp, and it's not easy to tell that she's pale from undeath.
A work around for that is the Disguise ability, which being based on Charisma, would probably be a pretty high skill for a Vampire. Their Disguise check DC would have to be beaten by their perception before they could make the knowledge check to know they were anything other than a catfolk. And until the vampire did something out of the ordinary for a catfolk, they wouldn't get a perception check anyway unless they had some special ability in play. And a mundane disguise wouldn't be penetrated by True Seeing or the like.
According to John Wick at least, this is the sort of "mean" that you want to do, and the players want too.
As a player I would LOVE a GM to actually read my backstory and incorporate it into the campaign. You are being exceptionally kind!
I say go Mohrg for the mom and necromental for the dad. The graveknight assumes father's compliance, so why kill him?
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It's been confirmed that the Slayer's older sister is alive and been a pleasure slave of this drow since she was captured. Her tiefling daughter was recently used as bait to lure the party into a trap.
When you include a plot line of serial rape of a family member, the answer is yes before you even ask the question.
I'd question why the villain would even have kept those corpses around. It's not like he should have had a deep hatred of the PC during that caravan attack. The hatred would have come much later. Does the villain simply collect the body of every person he's ever killed? That sounds exhausting.
I'd question why the villain would even have kept those corpses around. It's not like he should have had a deep hatred of the PC during that caravan attack. The hatred would have come much later. Does the villain simply collect the body of every person he's ever killed? That sounds exhausting.
I was thinking about this also. Why care about a catfolk who he failed to kill as a baby/toddler? This is the type of thing you do to someone who really gave you a reason to hate them.
Even if the evil guy needs for the catfolk to die because _____, then saving the bodies still seems to go to far, since it would likely not be personal.
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I'd question why the villain would even have kept those corpses around. It's not like he should have had a deep hatred of the PC during that caravan attack. The hatred would have come much later. Does the villain simply collect the body of every person he's ever killed? That sounds exhausting.I was thinking about this also. Why care about a catfolk who he failed to kill as a baby/toddler? This is the type of thing you do to someone who really gave you a reason to hate them.
Even if the evil guy needs for the catfolk to die because _____, then saving the bodies still seems to go to far, since it would likely not be personal.
He doesn't want to kill her. He wants to capture her alive so he has the complete set as his slaves.