dot. Been wanting to build this for a long time (just keeps getting shoved to the back burner for other things)
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Daring champion/ phalanx soldier with slashing grace and a glaive?
Daring champion/ phalanx soldier with slashing grace and a glaive?
No, phalanx soldier lets you wield a polearm as a one handed weapon, but slashing grace has the prerequisite that the weapon actually be a one handed weapon.
Whips work, but you wouldn't threaten until you could get improved whip mastery, which requires BAB +5, or until you could afford a +1 whip with the deadly enchantment.
Scorpion whips are finesseable weapons that threaten, but they aren't reach weapons. But depending on how the you interpret the line "if you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip," you might be able to use a scorpion whip as a reach weapon. There are some very long threads here debating the hot mess that is that weapon description.
Improved Whip Mastery is by far the best option, but it is not the only option. The long lash kobold tail attachment does the trick.
Nice catch!
You could take a dip to pick up the Long Arm spell. Or just get a wand of it and have a good UMD skill.
Thanks. By the way, the "and so on" in this faq seems to imply that Java Man's idea might also be an alternative. You couldn't use slashing grace with it, but Swashbuckler Finesse would probably work.
It wouldn't work with a glaive. Champion's Finesse (and Swashbuckler's Finesse) require piercing weapons, and glaives are slashing weapons.
But Daring Champion 1/Phalanx Soldier 3 would let you finesse with some other reach weapons: longspears, lances, ranseurs, mancatchers, and hooked lances. Those are all piercing weapons in the polearm or spear groups.
There are a few others that are partially piercing, and I suppose you could just not use their slashing or bludgeoning parts.
It's kind of an unconventional route, but depending on the level you start at you could consider going Druid and focusing on Elemental forms! The Air elemental form gets a large boost to DEX and Flight, and the Large and larger elemental forms have reach with their Slams, which as natural attacks can be finessed (and gain DEX-to-damage with an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists).
Fire Elemental form lacks Flight, but adds some nice damage in the form of the "Burn" ability.
If you want to dip your toe around in other classes to pick up extra feats, etc. you can even use Shaping Focus to mess around with 4 non-druid levels without losing any wild shape advancement.
I would also consider a bloodrager with the abberant bloodline. At 4th level you get +5' reach while raging.
that can make any weapon count as light for Weapon Finesse and similar effects
Does that include TWF? Because I will totally hang some pretty lace on my guns to lessen the TWF penalty.
Seems like it'd enable lots of TWF stuff in general.
That's... Really good. So long, 1-dip Swashbuckler/Cavalier for dex to hit Sawtooth Sabres
That's... Really bad. I didn't think it'd be possible to make such an item unpalatable but this managed it. If you get dispelled or sundered your entire build breaks for a day; you can't even buy backups since it takes 24 hours to attune, and nobody's rich enough to buy three backup swords to attune ribbons to.
Unless I'm reading pessimistically and the "treat as a light weapon" part isn't contingent on the merging bit, but that seems to be the intent.
Don't get me wrong, I'll still make some kind of silly PFS build with it, but darned if that isn't a serious Achilles' heel.
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I wonder how expensive this item might be?
It's mentioned above at 2500 gp.
That's... Really bad. I didn't think it'd be possible to make such an item unpalatable but this managed it. If you get dispelled or sundered your entire build breaks for a day; you can't even buy backups since it takes 24 hours to attune, and nobody's rich enough to buy three backup swords to attune ribbons to.
Unless I'm reading pessimistically and the "treat as a light weapon" part isn't contingent on the merging bit, but that seems to be the intent.
Don't get me wrong, I'll still make some kind of silly PFS build with it, but darned if that isn't a serious Achilles' heel.
Actually, I think doing this with dual rapiers is a valid build. Grab Fencing Grace, then go TWF. If you lose one of the ribbons, it means nothing (since the other still counts as light), and even if you lose both...that's only a -2 penalty on attacks for the rest of the day. Annoying but survivable.
Other builds using this to TWF (or for other purposes) are much less viable, but I think the dual rapier one works.
Actually, I think doing this with dual rapiers is a valid build. Grab Fencing Grace, then go TWF. If you lose one of the ribbons, it means nothing (since the other still counts as light), and even if you lose both...that's only a -2 penalty on attacks for the rest of the day. Annoying but survivable.
Other builds using this to TWF (or for other purposes) are much less viable, but I think the dual rapier one works.
Nice option for an Investigator!
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Nice option for an Investigator!Actually, I think doing this with dual rapiers is a valid build. Grab Fencing Grace, then go TWF. If you lose one of the ribbons, it means nothing (since the other still counts as light), and even if you lose both...that's only a -2 penalty on attacks for the rest of the day. Annoying but survivable.
Other builds using this to TWF (or for other purposes) are much less viable, but I think the dual rapier one works.
Highly Feat-intensive (5 Feats by 9th level by my calculations), but yeah, it's very workable. A one level dip In Inspired Blade really helps with that, of course.
Dosent the aid another action and bodyguard feat talk about being adjacent?
So more than needing finesse on a weapon you Will need a bit of GM fiat.
But i allow it on the cavalier in my group.
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I think I found our winner.
Its from an old and obscure book... but its still listed on d20pfsrd so in a home game it should be no problem.
The really nice thing about this is that its piercing damage so it would work with swashbuckler finesse.
I wish it was martial instead of exotic but that's nothing a Half-Elf cant handle.
How is this any different than someone breaking your sword anyway though?
As you say in the next breath, it's very easy to be prepared for the eventuality of your sword being broken (recommended even!) and have a way to quickly fix said weapon. The 24-hour requirement on this to attune makes that impossible.
Also just getting dispelled would normally just suppress your sword for a couple of rounds (likely not even "turning off" your character unless it's Agile or something); here it breaks you for 24 hours minimum.
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Seems like an awful lot of hoops to jump through to get both reach and finesse. Why bother? Either be Strength based, use a reach weapon, and be quite effective for moderate investment, else be Dexterity based, use a non-reach finesse weapon, and be moderately effective for a large investment.
It makes sense that it's difficult/impossible to find a weapon with both finesse and reach: reach weapons tend to be big and heavy and thus require considerable strength to use effectively.
Dex and reach have synergy when it comes to making opportunity attacks.
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Daring champion/ phalanx soldier with slashing grace and a glaive?No, phalanx soldier lets you wield a polearm as a one handed weapon, but slashing grace has the prerequisite that the weapon actually be a one handed weapon.
Actually - it does work.
At 3rd level, when a phalanx soldier wields a shield, he can use any polearm or spear of his size as a one-handed weapon.
To the level 3 phalanx soldier, the polearm is a one-handed weapon. This is unlike a lance when mounted -
Benefit: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
In the lance's case you still get the 1.5x strength damage and 3:1 ratio for power attack since it's still a two-handed weapon which is being wielded in one hand. The phalanx soldier actually treats a polearm as a one-handed weapon.
Though you'd be better off with swashbuckler than daring champion as a 1 level dip since the champion doesn't get panache until level 4.
Combat reflexes probably shouldn't have been dex based in the first place. But really what's the highest number of AoO you've ever been able to take in one round. I figure you don't get that many of them anyway. I doubt it gets much above 3 or 4.
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Combat reflexes probably shouldn't have been dex based in the first place. But really what's the highest number of AoO you've ever been able to take in one round. I figure you don't get that many of them anyway. I doubt it gets much above 3 or 4.
The threat of multiple opportunity attacks is often enough to create battlefield control.
My large biped eidolon with increased reach has run out of AoOs before, but often goes unchallenged.
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Spells do it best:
Enlarge person (level 1, min/level), Longarm (level 1, min/level) are both easy to get options.
If you have plenty of spells to throw away, and some buffing time (OR a rod of quicken) all of these stack togather: Longarm (level 1), Fluid Form (level 4 alch, level 6 wiz), and elemental body III or IV.Those would give any character 30 ft reach.
Add in a whip with relevant feats and you threaten out to 60 feet, and attack out to 90.
There more you can do, but magically those are you options.
Phalanx solider 3 + Swashbuckler 1 does the trick too. Phalanx solider 3 could possibly be replaced by titan mauler 2, depending how your GM rules how exactly "it is treated as one handed".
I would need to be able to threaten at 10ft (that way I can stand behind the meat shield).
You know you can't take AoOs if the target has cover from you, right?
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Combat reflexes probably shouldn't have been dex based in the first place. But really what's the highest number of AoO you've ever been able to take in one round. I figure you don't get that many of them anyway. I doubt it gets much above 3 or 4.
From just people moving - yes. But if your build calls for it they can stack up.
For example - if you're using an unarmed build which was provoked from movement, you could trip them with your 1st AOO, if you have greater trip and vicious stomp, that would give you both a 2nd & 3rd AOO. And that's off the top of my head.
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Yeah - there should really be a route for reach weapon users to grab a melee equivelent of improved precise shot.You know you can't take AoOs if the target has cover from you, right?I would need to be able to threaten at 10ft (that way I can stand behind the meat shield).
There is an easy way to take reach AoOs from the second rank. You must be Large, you must stand adjacent to the front rank, and you must be at least twice as tall as the front rank. Enlarge person works nicely for this. Just make sure the taller person, before enlarging, is in the back rank. Also have the movement discipline to remain adjacent.
You can't take an AoO through soft cover. An adjacent obstacle less than half your height does not provide soft cover at 15' and 20'. A large creature with a reach weapon can attack at 15' and 20'.
Low Obstacles and Cover
A low obstacle (such as a wall no higher than half your height) provides cover, but only to creatures within 30 feet (6 squares) of it. The attacker can ignore the cover if he's closer to the obstacle than his target.
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You know you can't take AoOs if the target has cover from you, right?I would need to be able to threaten at 10ft (that way I can stand behind the meat shield).
Thankfully, this doesn't apply to the bodyguard feat. It uses a use of an AoO, but is not a AoO. It is an Aid Another action, which has no restriction on cover IIRC (If I recall correctly).
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Thankfully, this doesn't apply to the bodyguard feat. It uses a use of an AoO, but is not a AoO. It is an Aid Another action, which has no restriction on cover IIRC (If I recall correctly).You know you can't take AoOs if the target has cover from you, right?I would need to be able to threaten at 10ft (that way I can stand behind the meat shield).
Yes, but a reach weapon has nothing to do at all with Bodyguard. Bodyguard only cares if you have an adjacent ally that is attacked, it doesn't matter at all where the enemy is, and it's not useable if the ally is not adjacent, even if the ally is in your threatened area.
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This is a hard reach-tactic to pull off as the spells required are quite specific.
Misty Reach
1. You'll need the "LongArms" - spell and "Obscuring Mist".
2. Having fog/mist-vision from "Wave" Oracles or another source is also required.
3. Having the Weapon Finesse feat & Combat Reflexes Feat.
4. This is optional; you can skip the weapon and instead use Touch attacks with "Chill Touch", "Flame Blade" or the "Elemental Touch" spell.
How it works:
"LongArms" gives you +5ft reach.
Obscuring mist does the following:
(BTW. (read about the Spell and read the concealment rules to get the EXACT effects))
Anyone without Fog/mist-vision will treat any foe 10ft or further away from them as if they were invisible. (50%miss chance, if they first can pin-point your square).
So all foes will have to be 5ft away from you in order to attack you fairly properly (20%miss chance), so everything will provoke an AoO against you (no matter how big they are).
Weaknesses:
The problem is to find a way to activate the 2 to 3 spells very quickly.
By going with Touch spells, issues such as Spell Resistance & Elemental Resistances can cause trouble.
Strength:
Reach & AoOs.
Adds protection and offers 1hit on all/most charging and advancing foes. (VS no Dex).
Effective tactics:
Withdraw (10-15ft)
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Yes, but a reach weapon has nothing to do at all with Bodyguard. Bodyguard only cares if you have an adjacent ally that is attacked, it doesn't matter at all where the enemy is, and it's not useable if the ally is not adjacent, even if the ally is in your threatened area.Thankfully, this doesn't apply to the bodyguard feat. It uses a use of an AoO, but is not a AoO. It is an Aid Another action, which has no restriction on cover IIRC (If I recall correctly).You know you can't take AoOs if the target has cover from you, right?I would need to be able to threaten at 10ft (that way I can stand behind the meat shield).
This is a subject of much debate. The author of the feat defined the RAI as not needing to be able to threaten the enemy, but there's still a lot of debate over the RAW, and how best to interpret it. Not going to talk about it alot here, but the author seemed (to me) to suggest that he felt that the bodyguard feat required the enemy to be in a threatened space. That may or may not be the correct interpretation, but it is well supported.
Daring champion/ phalanx soldier with slashing grace and a glaive?No, phalanx soldier lets you wield a polearm as a one handed weapon, but slashing grace has the prerequisite that the weapon actually be a one handed weapon.Actually - it does work.
At 3rd level, when a phalanx soldier wields a shield, he can use any polearm or spear of his size as a one-handed weapon.To the level 3 phalanx soldier, the polearm is a one-handed weapon. This is unlike a lance when mounted -
Benefit: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.In the lance's case you still get the 1.5x strength damage and 3:1 ratio for power attack since it's still a two-handed weapon which is being wielded in one hand. The phalanx soldier actually treats a polearm as a one-handed weapon.
Though you'd be better off with swashbuckler than daring champion as a 1 level dip since the champion doesn't get panache until level 4.
I still don't believe that you are correct. Slashing grace can only be selected for a weapon that is in the one-handed weapon category. Glaives are two-handed weapons and so don't qualify. If the 3rd level class ability stated simply that phalanx soldiers treat all polearms as one-handed weapons, then I would agree with you. That would be a universal statement, like the elven ability to treat elven curve blades as martial weapons. That means that elves treat them as martial weapons for any class abilities, feats, etc.
But what this ability says is that phalanx soldiers treat polearms as one-handed weapons only in the specific case that they are wielding a shield. This is a situational ability that shouldn't apply outside of combat with a shield.
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But what this ability says is that phalanx soldiers treat polearms as one-handed weapons only in the specific case that they are wielding a shield. This is a situational ability that shouldn't apply outside of combat with a shield.
Right... if he dropped the shield he'd lose slashing grace. I'm not arguing that point.
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This is a subject of much debate. The author of the feat defined the RAI as not needing to be able to threaten the enemy, but there's still a lot of debate over the RAW, and how best to interpret it. Not going to talk about it alot here, but the author seemed (to me) to suggest that he felt that the bodyguard feat required the enemy to be in a threatened space. That may or may not be the correct interpretation, but it is well supported.
While the author may have intended you to threaten the enemy, that is not what is written. The RAW is clear and specific. It changed the rules for aid another to allow you to use the action as an AoO if an adjacent ally is attacked, and does not mention enemy placement at all.
RAW, the feat is a specific change to the general rules of aid another, and overrides enemy placement, allowing you to use bodyguard even if your ally is attacked by a ranged attack. The feat stops being valuable if you need to threaten the enemy.
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This is a subject of much debate. The author of the feat defined the RAI as not needing to be able to threaten the enemy, but there's still a lot of debate over the RAW, and how best to interpret it. Not going to talk about it alot here, but the author seemed (to me) to suggest that he felt that the bodyguard feat required the enemy to be in a threatened space. That may or may not be the correct interpretation, but it is well supported.
While the author may have intended you to threaten the enemy, that is not what is written. The RAW is clear and specific. It changed the rules for aid another to allow you to use the action as an AoO if an adjacent ally is attacked, and does not mention enemy placement at all.
RAW, the feat is a specific change to the general rules of aid another, and overrides enemy placement, allowing you to use bodyguard even if your ally is attacked by a ranged attack. The feat stops being valuable if you need to threaten the enemy.
As I said, a subject of much debate, not going to argue about it here. My point is that there are two interpretations going on with the feat.
I also mis typed, the second "author" is supposed to be "OP" (original poster). The RAW is -not- clear, otherwise there would not be such great debate about it. Just search it, and you'll find several threads that come to different conclusions about the matter. If you want to argue the point, necro one of those, but my only point is that there's two, well support interpretations about the feat, and it seemed that the OP seemed to lean towards the more conservative one.
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Here's one of the threads about Bodyguard, with a Summary and a Poll.
If you haven't already voted on this issue, please do. Right now there are 20 votes (77%) for Option 1, and 6 votes (23%) for Option 2. That's an even enough split that one might reasonably expect table variation. One interpretation renders the Bodyguard feat pretty much useless, because the tactical situation required to trigger it hardly ever occurs.