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I ask this because I began to wonder why I have taken a number of ranks in UMD for a Sorcerer (now at +15). To emulate class features and other things requires significant DC penalties which in turn require very high UMD checks.
For instance, a Wisdom 10 Sorcerer requires to emulate a Wisdom 11 score first before even using a simple CLW wand.
What situations have you found it to be very useful to take serious ranks in the UMD skill?
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Prethen, you only need a 20 to use a wand with UMD, usually you only need to emulate an ability score if you are attempting to cast from a scroll.
To answer your question, I have found the greatest value of UMD is to allow my characters access t the numerous handy 1st level spells, particularly personal spells that can't be made in potion form, such as Longstrider, Honeyed Tongue or Gravity Bow.
Also it is very handy to have ranks in UMD if you rely on spells like Mage Armor and infernal healing and can't always be certain someone else will be in the party who can use it for you.
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Yes, it should just be a straight DC 20 to activate a wand. You only need the ability score for a scroll. I think most GMs will allow Charisma to qualify to activate a Cleric scroll, since an Oracle could cast with Charisma. My sorcerer took to carrying around several divine scrolls. Enough to be a backup healer in most cases (scrolls to remove conditions and that kind of thing). His crowning UMD moment was getting a Breath of Life off against Krune (after being brought back with a Breath of Life himself just prior) to save the party Magus, who was fortunately right beside me. I think Breath of Life is a DC29, and at the time he was around a +20. After much buildup, I rolled a nat 20 to make the DC by plenty.
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For sure, there can be a great use in scrolls, for sure. More than once I have seen characters saved by UMD on a Breath of Life scroll. My rogue buys scrolls, such as Heroism, Darkvision, etc... Which has been very useful as well.
BOL is a DC 30 if you don't have a 15 Wisdom, and then a 29 to actually cast.
I haven't used it as such, but things that would boost abilities from the ACL are probably worth looking in to, but I haven't had the time...
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Breath of Life is actually a spell from the Core Rulebook, available to Clerics (and Oracles). Weirdly, searching the PRD turns up the mythic version first, without making that particularly clear. The correct PRD link is here: LINK
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For sure, there can be a great use in scrolls, for sure. More than once I have seen characters saved by UMD on a Breath of Life scroll. My rogue buys scrolls, such as Heroism, Darkvision, etc... Which has been very useful as well.
BOL is a DC 30 if you don't have a 15 Wisdom, and then a 29 to actually cast.
I haven't used it as such, but things that would boost abilities from the ACL are probably worth looking in to, but I haven't had the time...I'm relatively new to Pathfinder Society play so forgive me if this is a dumb question, but how is Breath of Life spell available to PC's?
I looked it up (because I was going to see about getting a scroll or two) and saw that it is from Mythic Adventures, which isn't on the Additional Resources page.
I believe you are thinking about the spell Deathless. Breath of life appears in the core rulebook, basically its a 5d8 cure spell that says if it heals a target up to enough hp to be alive, then the person lives (with a negative level that lasts a day).
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Personally I like to have the option to use scrolls and wands that are found in scenarios. It sucks when you find a scroll of lesser restoration and nobody can use it. And the there comes the swarms...
In a home campaign I have a antipaladin/assassin who has maximum ranks and high charisma. Mostly uses it to read scrolls that his wizard buddy makes. Very handy to have shield and mirror image available.
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So, I love having UMD on my Cavalier 4/Rogue 5/Hellknight 1, she carries a variety of scrolls (see invis, glitterdust, ect), and wands (often partial charged from scenarios). One of her favorites is her wand of mirror image, though earlier tonight I rolled a 3 (failing by 2) so I used my shirt re-roll (with 3 stars), but got a 1, (which totaled 19). So instead of just failing to activate it, I jammed it.
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My sorceress is racing to get maxed ranks of UMD to facilitate her familiar's use of wands. Note that if you succeed when rolling a one you don't mess up the wand for a day.and it works. (it casts the spell even on a roll of "1" if you have a +19 UMD).
a natural one always fails on a umd check to use a wand. Furthermore you cannot use that wand for next 24 hrs
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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a natural one always fails on a umd check to use a wand. Furthermore you cannot use that wand for next 24 hrs
Actually that's only true if you fail with that natural 1:
Try Again: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours.
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a natural one always fails on a umd check to use a wand. Furthermore you cannot use that wand for next 24 hrsActually that's only true if you fail with that natural 1:
Try Again: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours.
oops. Just re read skill description. Learn something new everyday. Thanks.
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I ask this because I began to wonder why I have taken a number of ranks in UMD for a Sorcerer (now at +15). To emulate class features and other things requires significant DC penalties which in turn require very high UMD checks.
For instance, a Wisdom 10 Sorcerer requires to emulate a Wisdom 11 score first before even using a simple CLW wand.
What situations have you found it to be very useful to take serious ranks in the UMD skill?
Having a fighter UMD a Breath of Life scroll is always impressive.
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My high level rogue has spent approximately 60k on a variety of wands. She utilized pretty much every partially charged wand found on chronicles to be the backup caster when necessary. Then, after the first part of a high level adventure went spectacularly wrong, she picked up a circlet of persuasion to get her UMD high enough to not have to worry about failing. Oh, and a wand of flame strike to help disrupt pesky casters. If I get the chance to play her again she is going to also get a wand of dimension door. In addition to the wands, UMD has been called out as a skill needed in a handful of scenarios.
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Yep, I seemed to have gotten the rules messed up in regards to activating wands.
So, back to my original question. Beyond, needing to overcome a DC 20 for activating a wand, what compelling reasons have you found for having a high UMD? For characters without a lot of skill points to distribute it would need to be quite a compelling reason.
I agree that having a decent UMD (30? better?) for casting BOL for a non-Cleric might be a good idea.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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Yep, I seemed to have gotten the rules messed up in regards to activating wands.
So, back to my original question. Beyond, needing to overcome a DC 20 for activating a wand, what compelling reasons have you found for having a high UMD? For characters without a lot of skill points to distribute it would need to be quite a compelling reason.
I agree that having a decent UMD (30? better?) for casting BOL for a non-Cleric might be a good idea.
Easier to just go for First Aid gloves.
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Staves are also a activated like wands on a 20. I like giving summoners a staff of arcane power, minor for magic missile and/or a staff of fire for fireball. I don't feel summoners have good attack spells so I like the above mention damaging options. Also in PFS, staves recharge to full between sessions, provided you are capable of recharging them.
I really don't like having only 2 or 3 ranks in umd because even with cha and a. class.skill bonus, you are only about 30%-40% likely to succeed. I prefer waiting til level seven or higher, when staves are a reasonable price to put tanks in but then dump every or near every skill point into umd for 2 or 3 levels to get real close to that auto succeed target modifier ASAP. People can reasonably argue one rank to at least try early may be worth it.
It is pretty hard to invest so many points with a 2 skill points.per level class but I find even just a 12 int and human bonus goes s long way there. I also find.a.little.less bad since the Eidolon had their own pool of skill points also, which could also justify some points into umd itself.
I'm nit currently interested in looking it up. Even if I was, I think it is one of those topics you have to start searching forum posts instead of the actual book because it was not written clearly enough in the book. I would feel irresponsible if I left without mentioning I do not think all familiars are able to umd. I think intelligent(able to speak a language on its own rather than because it is a familiar) can umd but not others. I tnink improved familiar usually opens it up but doubt the base selection can.
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Easier to just go for First Aid gloves.Yep, I seemed to have gotten the rules messed up in regards to activating wands.
So, back to my original question. Beyond, needing to overcome a DC 20 for activating a wand, what compelling reasons have you found for having a high UMD? For characters without a lot of skill points to distribute it would need to be quite a compelling reason.
I agree that having a decent UMD (30? better?) for casting BOL for a non-Cleric might be a good idea.
Meh...my bard's got the gloves, and a 31ish UMD to cast heal from scrolls as necessary. It's stopped 2 or 3 deaths from happening in last couple of scenarios he played (now waiting on EoT). Being able to cast a level 6 scroll w/out fail grants him a much wider avenue of opportunities to do things in combat. It's can be expensive, but he's a good back up healer and a safety net in case the main healer goes down in a fight.
It's also handy for Empiricist investigator to be able to use wands, because the current way their Alchemy is written they cannot use wands at all.
I am so ready for the ACG errata....
*EDIT*
So after examining the 7th level Investigator Pre-Gen, I believe we have a legitimate source to argue that investigators can, in fact, use wands on their "spell-list". So disregard my previous comment...
Relying on Pre-gens for rules is a bad idea.
Lem has a potion of Expeditious Retreat
Level 7 Hayato has Greater Weapon Focus
etc.
True, many of them do have their issues, but it's better than nothing I suppose. And of course, I will be willing to suck it up if my GM says "Give me a UMD check for that Wand of Cure Light Wounds."
There seem to be lots of scenarios where you find wands and scrolls that are not on any PC's spell list. But they were specifically in the scenario because they are useful in that scenario.
My sorc can almost always activate them.
I have saved the life of a fellow with BoL.
At our local there used to be a fighter with decent UMD and several level 1 buff wands of spells that stack (purchased with prestige). If there wasn't someone at the table that could activate them, he could buff himself. He was often playing up and having no troubles.
He said he originally made the character as a joke, but it ended up being one of his most successful PFS characters.
