So I am new to pathfinder. But I get the distinct impression my GM is rather new to GM'ing. He has our APL 2 party fighting hell hounds and ambush drakes and keeps having the monsters run away because we are having a hard time with them. Any advice on how to just hunker down and bear it in silence. I don't wanna be the guy who stands up and yells, "this isnt how it should go, I could do this better!" but I'm having trouble controlling myself. Also 4 of our party of 6 have never played a table top RPG so they don't really understand its things we shouldn't do yet. (like finding a plus 2 flaming sword)
Maybe suggest (or even buy for him) a published adventure?
So I am new to pathfinder. But I get the distinct impression my GM is rather new to GM'ing. He has our APL 2 party fighting hell hounds and ambush drakes and keeps having the monsters run away because we are having a hard time with them. Any advice on how to just hunker down and bear it in silence. I don't wanna be the guy who stands up and yells, "this isnt how it should go, I could do this better!" but I'm having trouble controlling myself. Also 4 of our party of 6 have never played a table top RPG so they don't really understand its things we shouldn't do yet. (like finding a plus 2 flaming sword)
High CR, high treasure to deal with it. Plus you have six party members for an action economy advantage. If the others are having fun, I don't see a problem here, other than you thinking that CR and WBL are universally applicable rules.
Other than him not "doing it right", are the players having fun as a whole?
I'm going to second this question: is the group (including the gm) having fun?
6 second-level characters shouldn't have all that much trouble with a couple of hellhounds. Use good tactics and it should work out.
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6 second-level characters shouldn't have all that much trouble with a couple of hellhounds. Use good tactics and it should work out.
"Good tactics" and "4 of our party of 6 have never played a table top RPG" rarely go together.
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6 second-level characters shouldn't have all that much trouble with a couple of hellhounds. Use good tactics and it should work out.
Technically at APL 2 they're 6 level 1s, and two Hellhounds are a CR 5 fight. That would be a hard fight for most of the experienced players I know. Also, he never said 2, he just said Hellhounds, plural, so who knows...
Also, I'll second the suggestion that if this is the GMs first foray into GMing, an adventure path, or module would be a good way to start. It's usually balanced for players of that level, and shows a decent standard of adventure and story design. You don't even have to use the story wholesale, you can usually just use bit's and pieces and make the adventure your own.
As for, how to suffer in silence, I'd suggest don't do that. First try and find the good stuff in the game, like interesting story or fun adventure mechanics, that sort of thing. If there really isn't any of that, it doesn't sound like it is a fun adventure, and may be time to have a quiet discussion with him, away from the group. Mention that the difficulty is taking away enjoyment, not enhancing it. And if that doesn't work, it isn't the end of the world to just walk away from a game that's no fun, and is not going to change.
So I am new to pathfinder. But I get the distinct impression my GM is rather new to GM'ing. He has our APL 2 party fighting hell hounds and ambush drakes and keeps having the monsters run away because we are having a hard time with them. Any advice on how to just hunker down and bear it in silence. I don't wanna be the guy who stands up and yells, "this isnt how it should go, I could do this better!" but I'm having trouble controlling myself. Also 4 of our party of 6 have never played a table top RPG so they don't really understand its things we shouldn't do yet. (like finding a plus 2 flaming sword)High CR, high treasure to deal with it. Plus you have six party members for an action economy advantage. If the others are having fun, I don't see a problem here, other than you thinking that CR and WBL are universally applicable rules.
This.
Everything isn't 'linear' like a story based video game where the players can't go into certain areas until they are X level.
The game was played long before there were CRs and WBL.
WHY can't a group of adventurers stumble on a horde of treasure well beyond what they would just find fighting some goblins.
WHY not narrowly escape an encounter with monster(s) too powerful for you, only to track hem down later when you are prepared.
do monsters say "pops can't go to that town…only level 2s there!"
What about modules and APs where the characters are high level, but there are monsters running amok in town/civilization (Council of thieves AP comes to mind)
Where there NO low levels in Westcrown? did everyone level up with the PCs?
there were far more shadow monsters and later devils running around the city than just the pcs themselves could deal with.
THAT story only focuses on what happened to the PCs…
It's kinda like that little Agents of shield blurb after the Avengers movie, when the regular people found aliens weapons left over from the battle of new york and what they did with them.
Or in subsequent transformers movies where regular civilians where encountering alien tech.
That can't be there! We're not powerful enough for it!
That's not badwrongfun, it's good story telling.
6 second-level characters shouldn't have all that much trouble with a couple of hellhounds. Use good tactics and it should work out.
Technically at APL 2 they're 6 level 1s, and two Hellhounds are a CR 5 fight. That would be a hard fight for most of the experienced players I know. Also, he never said 2, he just said Hellhounds, plural, so who knows...
Also, I'll second the suggestion that if this is the GMs first foray into GMing, an adventure path, or module would be a good way to start. It's usually balanced for players of that level, and shows a decent standard of adventure and story design. You don't even have to use the story wholesale, you can usually just use bit's and pieces and make the adventure your own.
As for, how to suffer in silence, I'd suggest don't do that. First try and find the good stuff in the game, like interesting story or fun adventure mechanics, that sort of thing. If there really isn't any of that, it doesn't sound like it is a fun adventure, and may be time to have a quiet discussion with him, away from the group. Mention that the difficulty is taking away enjoyment, not enhancing it. And if that doesn't work, it isn't the end of the world to just walk away from a game that's no fun, and not going to change.
But a level 1 character with a +2 flaming longsword, that is on average +2 to hit and +5 damage more than a level one, would technically make that character more capable than a level 3 fighter with no magic weapon.
so there are other things going on than just the pure level of the characters involved.|
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6 second-level characters shouldn't have all that much trouble with a couple of hellhounds. Use good tactics and it should work out.
Technically at APL 2 they're 6 level 1s, and two Hellhounds are a CR 5 fight. That would be a hard fight for most of the experienced players I know. Also, he never said 2, he just said Hellhounds, plural, so who knows...
Also, I'll second the suggestion that if this is the GMs first foray into GMing, an adventure path, or module would be a good way to start. It's usually balanced for players of that level, and shows a decent standard of adventure and story design. You don't even have to use the story wholesale, you can usually just use bit's and pieces and make the adventure your own.
As for, how to suffer in silence, I'd suggest don't do that. First try and find the good stuff in the game, like interesting story or fun adventure mechanics, that sort of thing. If there really isn't any of that, it doesn't sound like it is a fun adventure, and may be time to have a quiet discussion with him, away from the group. Mention that the difficulty is taking away enjoyment, not enhancing it. And if that doesn't work, it isn't the end of the world to just walk away from a game that's no fun, and not going to change.
But a level 1 character with a +2 flaming longsword, that is on average +2 to hit and +5 damage more than a level one, would technically make that character more capable than a level 3 fighter with no magic weapon.
so there are other things going on than just the pure level of the characters involved.
They'd hit hard, but still have 1st level hit points. A good roll from a fire breath could knock down half the team, nothing a +2 flaming longsword could do about that.
I concur with Scott's excellent answer.
They'd hit hard, but still have 1st level hit points. A good roll from a fire breath could knock down half the team, nothing a +2 flaming longsword could do about that.6 second-level characters shouldn't have all that much trouble with a couple of hellhounds. Use good tactics and it should work out.
Technically at APL 2 they're 6 level 1s, and two Hellhounds are a CR 5 fight. That would be a hard fight for most of the experienced players I know. Also, he never said 2, he just said Hellhounds, plural, so who knows...
Also, I'll second the suggestion that if this is the GMs first foray into GMing, an adventure path, or module would be a good way to start. It's usually balanced for players of that level, and shows a decent standard of adventure and story design. You don't even have to use the story wholesale, you can usually just use bit's and pieces and make the adventure your own.
As for, how to suffer in silence, I'd suggest don't do that. First try and find the good stuff in the game, like interesting story or fun adventure mechanics, that sort of thing. If there really isn't any of that, it doesn't sound like it is a fun adventure, and may be time to have a quiet discussion with him, away from the group. Mention that the difficulty is taking away enjoyment, not enhancing it. And if that doesn't work, it isn't the end of the world to just walk away from a game that's no fun, and not going to change.
But a level 1 character with a +2 flaming longsword, that is on average +2 to hit and +5 damage more than a level one, would technically make that character more capable than a level 3 fighter with no magic weapon.
so there are other things going on than just the pure level of the characters involved.
So?
There's a big cliff, my 5th level fighter could jump down and survive because I have more HP.
Maybe the GM wants to avoid that kind of stuff?
How do you know how much damage the hell hounds breath does?
Because you see what you think is a hell hound and the books tell you how much damage it does?
how do we know there isn't a reason for hell hounds to be there and the party could just watch or track them.
"I see monsters now we fight" SHOULD be discouraged.
Keeping defenses low is a way to to make that happen.
A dragon! charge! attack! we can beat it! The DM can't have us see or encounter monsters that isn't appropriate for our level! Onward to glory!
ahhh no.
Having to run away a lot may not fit one's notions of heroic fantasy, but that doesn't mean it isn't legit for a fantasy RPG.
That's not the issue. The issue is that the GM puts the PCs up against monsters they don't know how to handle, and then the GM makes the monsters run away for no reason other than to avoid killing the PCs.
Having to run away a lot may not fit one's notions of heroic fantasy, but that doesn't mean it isn't legit for a fantasy RPG.That's not the issue. The issue is that the GM puts the PCs up against monsters they don't know how to handle, and then the GM makes the monsters run away for no reason other than to avoid killing the PCs.
how do you know why the monsters are doing what they are doing?
maybe there is a method to the madness?
maybe they are baiting the PCs to follow them?
Who knows.
Having to run away a lot may not fit one's notions of heroic fantasy, but that doesn't mean it isn't legit for a fantasy RPG.That's not the issue. The issue is that the GM puts the PCs up against monsters they don't know how to handle, and then the GM makes the monsters run away for no reason other than to avoid killing the PCs.how do you know why the monsters are doing what they are doing?
maybe there is a method to the madness?
maybe they are baiting the PCs to follow them?Who knows.
Maybe the DM is inexperienced, and in over their head.
Maybe the DM, lacking experience, has no idea how to plan appropriate encounters.Who knows?
If a party of 6 can't kill a few hellhounds then I would say you guys aren't really doing all that much better than he is, lol. But really, you could do worse. GM'ing takes a long time to get good at. If he's new, you will become a good player much faster than he will become a good GM. You guys will just have to all learn together. I'd suggest rotation the GM spot as a way to learn from one another.
He might be wondering why the party is always needing help. Just wait until the game is over and explain the CR system to him the best you can.
He is probably making the newbie mistake and assuming 6 level 1 PCs is equal to a CR 6 encounter. Just ask him about it.
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You'll always find way more people interested in playing pathfinder than GMing. GMs are hard to find and good ones even harder, unfortunately good GMs start off as bad GMs until they can fine tune their craft.
Remember that if you lose your GM, the group will dissolve and I'm sure you don't want that.
Assuming your GM is new there's really little you can do but learn and grow with him.
It's worth asking the GM at the end of each session "what should/could we have done when XYZ attacked us?"
This will elicit two possible responses
1)"This is what you should have done" and the group gets better as players
2)The GM sees flaws in his encounter design and designs better ones
how do you know why the monsters are doing what they are doing?maybe there is a method to the madness?
maybe they are baiting the PCs to follow them?Who knows.
Maybe the DM is inexperienced, and in over their head.
Maybe the DM, lacking experience, has no idea how to plan appropriate encounters.Who knows?
Indeed. And this is why the OP should neither explode nor endure it in silence but ask the GM, out of session, what's going on. Ask the GM if he's setting up encounters expecting the PCs to be able to take care of them, finding out they can't, and then having the monsters run away to avoid killing them. If he is, clearly that's a model that isn't working for at least one of his players at the table and it should be looked into.
Indeed. And this is why the OP should neither explode nor endure it in silence but ask the GM, out of session, what's going on. Ask the GM if he's setting up encounters expecting the PCs to be able to take care of them, finding out they can't, and then having the monsters run away to avoid killing them. If he is, clearly that's a model that isn't working for at least one of his players at the table and it should be looked into.
how do you know why the monsters are doing what they are doing?maybe there is a method to the madness?
maybe they are baiting the PCs to follow them?Who knows.
Maybe the DM is inexperienced, and in over their head.
Maybe the DM, lacking experience, has no idea how to plan appropriate encounters.Who knows?
This is good advice. Talking things out is usually the best approach.
Indeed. And it's the "out of session" part that really matters. Don't confront during play! Ask before the game, or after.
Any GM worth their salt wants to create a good experience for all concerned.
The same thing that solves most any problem: 2-way, open, calm, & rational communication.