Dreamscarred press psionics: where to start


Product Discussion


So, with all the discussion recently with occult adventures & psionics and such, I feel like trying to slowly integrate DP psionics into my repertoire for future games I may GM. However, the formatting of my only source (d20pfsrd) is not terribly good, and I'm having a hard time picking up the vocabulary, the way psionics work, and more.

So I was wondering how people would best reccomend I start. Is there any convienient (& well formatted) guide to DP psionics? Are the actual books well made (note: I would have to rely on PDFs, since I live in canada and shipping anything from the US is ridiculously expensive)? Are there any already made oneshots or short modules that use DP psionics that might allow me to experiment with some players?

In any case, I await the input of others...

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

Ultimate Psionics is the place to start. Its got all the base psionic classes/races and explanation of how psionics works. That's the place to start. It has everything from Psionics Unleashed (the core book equivalent, think the 3.5 psionics stuff updated to pathfinder) and the Advanced Psionics Guide (the Advanced Players Guide equivalent, so 6 new classes, archetypes, favored class options, alternate race traits, etc) all in one book.


Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Ultimate Psionics is the place to start. Its got all the base psionic classes/races and explanation of how psionics works. That's the place to start. It has everything from Psionics Unleashed (the core book equivalent, think the 3.5 psionics stuff updated to pathfinder) and the Advanced Psionics Guide (the Advanced Players Guide equivalent, so 6 new classes, archetypes, favored class options, alternate race traits, etc) all in one book.

It is... expensive. Pretty, but expensive. PDF is reasonably priced.

How well are the rule sections done? A lot of RPG rulebooks I've read have an unfortunate tendency of being very scattered, which makes it hard to really follow.


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williamoak wrote:
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Ultimate Psionics is the place to start. Its got all the base psionic classes/races and explanation of how psionics works. That's the place to start. It has everything from Psionics Unleashed (the core book equivalent, think the 3.5 psionics stuff updated to pathfinder) and the Advanced Psionics Guide (the Advanced Players Guide equivalent, so 6 new classes, archetypes, favored class options, alternate race traits, etc) all in one book.

It is... expensive. Pretty, but expensive. PDF is reasonably priced.

How well are the rule sections done? A lot of RPG rulebooks I've read have an unfortunate tendency of being very scattered, which makes it hard to really follow.

Proud owner here; the rules are very well laid-out and presented up front. You'll encounter the races and classes first, which then proceed directly into general rules about psionics, followed by psionic powers.

Three things are notable: the Golden Rule, Psionic Focus, and Active Energy. All of these are explained in the book, but:

The Golden Rule - You can never spend more power points on any one thing (power, class ability, etc) than your manifester level. Wilders are the sole exception to this thanks to their Wild Surge, but that actually bumps their ML when they use it, so technically not.

Psionic Focus - You spend a full-round action to become psionically focused, which may cause certain feats or class features to turn on. You remain focused until you expend your focus or become unconscious.

Active Energy: When you gain psionic focus, choose an energy type from: cold, fire, electricity, sonic. Powers you manifest that deal energy damage will usually deal energy damage of your active energy type. Some specific exceptions exist.


In my opinion Psionics Unleashed (with Expanded) and Ultimate Psionics (available in PDF here) are fairly straightforward. I have not read "Paths of War" or the "Psionic Bestiary" or "Ashitic Mysteries"(sp). I have played Dreamscarred Press' psionic characters for the last 5 years, and I'm still finding new combinations and realities vs. what is in the book(s).

Just like with Pathfinder, it's important to start with a "Core" psionic class - Psion, Psychic Warrior, Soulknife, Wilder. Make some character sheets. Read up on the psionic powers available at each level, and each blade skill. Then look how the additional Core classes - Tactician, Vitalist, Aegis, Cryptic, Dread - change the basic Core into an expanded Core. Many classes are "front-loaded", with all of their abilities and powers up-front, while some are "rear-loaded". Just like with a PRD Wizard, Sorcerer, or pure Fighter, many classes "come into their own" around about the time you qualify for a prestige class, or Level 6-9.

The psionic prestige classes are also few in number, mostly available on the PFSRD.

Online here on Pazio, there are not that many DP psionic games:
1.) Phaeselis: the City of Psionics
2.) Atalantia - Scourge of Magic

But if you do a search for "psionics" on Pazio here you can get several people dabbling in psionics; actual games, not so much. I haven't seen a single DP module or Adventure Path using psionics. Everything's been homebrew to this point. I dread how it might be similar to playing Magic The Gathering card game vs. reading the official published novels based upon the card game - i.e., no similarity whatsoever. But several of the real-life gaming table and Pazio online homebrews have been very good.


The rules sections seemed well done to me, and Dreamscarred Press's forums are very helpful for questions you might have.

Psionics Unleashed by itself was enough to get psionics up and running in my group, but there's a lot of good material added in Ultimate.

Also, the golden rule mentioned above is possibly the most often overlooked, but vitally important rule in Psionics.


I do remeber hearing someone mentionning DP had started an adventure path for it's psionics, in a purely psionic world, but I cant quite remember.

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

williamoak wrote:
It is... expensive.

True that. If you are looking for something lighter on the wallet, then Psionics Unleashed is the place to go. Same psionics rules, the 4 psionic classes from 3.5 updated to Pathfinder, no archetypes. But if you are looking to slowly incorporate psionics into your game this is the basic book.


Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
williamoak wrote:
It is... expensive.
True that. If you are looking for something lighter on the wallet, then Psionics Unleashed is the place to go. Same psionics rules, the 4 psionic classes from 3.5 updated to Pathfinder, no archetypes. But if you are looking to slowly incorporate psionics into your game this is the basic book.

I think I'll stick with unleashed for the moment, it should suffice. It would be for short things for the moment, so I dont need much.

Still, I'm a bit disappointed there arent any psionic modules.


williamoak wrote:
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
williamoak wrote:
It is... expensive.
True that. If you are looking for something lighter on the wallet, then Psionics Unleashed is the place to go. Same psionics rules, the 4 psionic classes from 3.5 updated to Pathfinder, no archetypes. But if you are looking to slowly incorporate psionics into your game this is the basic book.

I think I'll stick with unleashed for the moment, it should suffice. It would be for short things for the moment, so I dont need much.

Still, I'm a bit disappointed there arent any psionic modules.

There aren't any what now?

AP currently has 3/6 adventures done.


Thank you PoK!


williamoak wrote:
Thank you PoK!

Not a problem, my friend. I've got a bit of a vested interest, what with writing Psionics Augmented: Wilder here recently.


Yeah, I've seen you comment as a designer on a bunch of other threads, so I thought it might be something like that.


If you want to see a comic-book version of a high-level Psionist (Nomad) fighting magic users, you could pop in on Order of the Stick #910 through #935.

Points matter. The Pathfinder "slot" system of magic powers is different than the points system. A high-level sorcerer might have 4 Teleports, more if he or she sacrifices a higher-level slot for a lower-level Teleport. A Wizard might memorize it once or twice per day. A psion can manifest Psychoport as many times as he or she has the points to pay for it. At 10th Level with 100 power points Psychoport (4th Level power, 7 pp) can be manifested 14 times!

Going Nova. In the 1st and 2nd Edition D&D days a psion could use all their power points on a single power, "augmenting" it to levels beyond what anyone could counter. That no longer exists. You can't "go nova" with the Dreamscarred Press psionics. Even Wilders can only bump-up their manifester level a single-digit number at high levels. No more "blow them all away in one round" tactics. A more balanced system.


With path of war also in existence, I'm almost tempted to do a "no paizo classes" series of games.

Scarab Sages

williamoak wrote:
With path of war also in existence, I'm almost tempted to do a "no paizo classes" series of games.

One of the fun things about Dreamscarred's product line is that it is possible to run an entire campaign using only Dreamscarred PC's. In our games there's usually about 1/2 the party running DSP characters, and we've had a psionic character in every role: healer (Vitalist), buffer (Tactician, Vitalist) controller (Dread, Psion), skill-monkey (Cryptic, Dread), tank (Aegis, Soulknife, Psychic Warrior), and dpr (Aegis, Marksman, Psion, Psychic Warrior, Soulknife).

I also like that DSP materials are balanced to basically cut out the very top and very bottom tiers. Psion is a tier 1, Soulknife is a tier 4, and you don't have the tier 1 god-wizard or tier 5 "no I can't hit it, but fortunately I'm mediocre at everything else too!" clutter.

As others have noted, Ultimate Psionics is laid immaculately. It's very well organized and easy to reference, and is generally absolutely beautiful. The .pdf is a great deal if the print price is a bit daunting.

Publisher, Dreamscarred Press

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williamoak wrote:


I think I'll stick with unleashed for the moment, it should suffice. It would be for short things for the moment, so I dont need much.

I should note that Unleashed is going to get a reboot to bring its production quality up to where it should have been and exactly for folks like you looking for a lower-cost entry point.

It's on the list of things to do after getting our Kickstarter rewards fulfilled.


*I am not affiliated with DSP in any way aside from being a consumer*

Here's a quote from me in another thread

Quote:

The mark of a good rulebook is how quickly the table of contents page can be used to find the ballpark location for the answer to a rules question.

In the case of Ultimate Psionics and PoW1 the ToC can very quickly tell me where I need to look and that's one of my favorite features.

I only wish Pathfinder core rulebook was so good for this aspect. Did you know that the reach quality on a weapon actually makes you able to attack the area that's at double your natural reach and creates a dead zone in your natural reach zone? So a Troll with a Long spear threatens with the spear at 15 and 20 ft and does not threaten with the spear at 5 and 10 feat. Where can this be found in the core rulebook? The last sentence of the "Big and Little Creatures in combat" section. Where would it make the most sense to be written? In the reach weapon quality entry.

The number 1 thing I love about DSP is the rules they come up with. The number 2 thing is how well formatted their books are and how hard they work to make rule situations clear cut.

Scarab Sages

Ssalarn wrote:
I also like that DSP materials are balanced to basically cut out the very top and very bottom tiers. Psion is a tier 1, Soulknife is a tier 4, and you don't have the tier 1 god-wizard or tier 5 "no I can't hit it, but fortunately I'm mediocre at everything else too!" clutter.

/facepalm

I meant Psion is a Tier 2, which makes the rest of that sentence make sense.


Well, thanks for the info folks.


Also, thanks to the generous donor. I appreciate the gift!


williamoak wrote:
Is there any convienient (& well formatted) guide to DP psionics?

I find for radically different things like this, a dedicated PDF is better than web content. I mean, I use d20pfsrd frequently for lookup purposes, but it's just not ideal for browsing.

What I mean is that if I'm looking for a list of all <class> spells/powers, the web is awesome because you can browse down a table and open stuff in another tab to read, where with a book you'd be flipping back and forth. Or to quickly grab the stats of such-and-such a monster, again, the web is great. But to sit down and learn a system, a book is much more linear.

As such I'd thoroughly recommend UP. It's the equivalent of Core plus APG in terms of content. So you've got your classes, feats, archetypes etc all in one easy shopping location.

I'm still itching desperately to play a tactician.

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