Well, there's this.
When a character's turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round's worth of actions. (For exceptions, see Attacks of Opportunity and Special Initiative Actions.)
Since free actions are done "while taking another action normally" and you perform your entire round's worth of actions on your turn, then you are not taking actions outside of your turn, except for the exceptions listed, AoOs and special initiative which include delay/ready which change your initiative.
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Snapshot is a poorly worded feat that required an Errata to add an unprecedented exception for that one feat just for it to function at all. It is therefore not a good example of "100% proof".
Free actions may not be taken on other people's turns unless otherwise specified. Rage does not "otherwise specify" and therefore cannot be used outside of your turn.
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Except as noted it's specifically NOT errata. It's FAQ. FAQ is when something always worked that way but people didn't know or understand. Errata would be changing something. Nothing was changed. It always worked as intended.
Ok...you are really splitting hairs here...
So then: "Snapshot is a poorly worded feat that required an FAQ to add an unprecedented exception for one feat just for it to function as intended. It is therefore not a good example of "100% proof"."This of course didn't change the point or even the meaning of what I said. And the point still stands: a badly worded feat does not make for solid evidence.
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Except as noted it's specifically NOT errata. It's FAQ. FAQ is when something always worked that way but people didn't know or understand. Errata would be changing something. Nothing was changed. It always worked as intended.Snapshot is a poorly worded feat that required an Errata to add an unprecedented exception for that one feat just for it to function at all. It is therefore not a good example of "100% proof".
Free actions may not be taken on other people's turns unless otherwise specified. Rage does not "otherwise specify" and therefore cannot be used outside of your turn.
And as counterproof let's look at a FAQ on summoners and life link.
Summoner: Can I use life link when it's not my turn, I'm paralyzed, or I otherwise can't take actions?Although the ability is listed as a free action, it's something a summoner should be able to do at any time the eidolon would take enough damage to send it back to its home plane, even if it's not his turn (as is normally the case when he's being attacked), he's helpless from Strength or Dexterity poison, he's under a hold person spell, and so on. In other words, it's not an action at all, and shouldn't be listed as such.
Update: APG page 56, in the Life Link description, paragraph 1, sentence 2, delete "as a free action"
Why they didn't make the same kind of wording change for snap shot I don't know, but snap shot, as pointed out, makes an exception to the rule, it does not establish what the general rule is. Either way it was clear how snap shot was "supposed" to work with a bow, but because what was actually written didn't line up with that it got FAQ'd.
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I'm getting the sneaky suspicion Undone is trolling. No one can be this willingly blind to the flood of evidence he's been provided.
Undone, I can respect a good troll post as much as the next guy, but please try to keep them relegated to the Advice or other forums and out of the Rules Forums. The Rules Forums are for serious discussions where people ask questions and they receive answers from community members who clearly understand how the games mechanics work better than they do and then thank said knowledgeable community for their informed, well-researched assistance rather than belligerently denying everything they say while waving the tiniest scrap of counter-"evidence" they could find whilst gloriously proclaiming it "100% proof" despite the hurricane of counter-proof roaring at him and quite effectively blowing it from his hand.
Good thing you are only trolling...
In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn. Speaking more than a few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action.
Speak shows that as a rule free actions cannot be done when it is not your turn, and speaking is an exception to that.
Yes, you can rage as a free action during attacks of opportunity.
As you quoted, you can use free actions when taking another action normally.
To those saying "an AoO is not an action", if that's the case you can make AoOs when you are Dazed, Panicked, Stunned, or even Paralyzed, because there is nothing in any of those conditions prevents you from taking AoOs, they only prevent you from taking actions.
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Yes, you can rage as a free action during attacks of opportunity.
As you quoted, you can use free actions when taking another action normally.
To those saying "an AoO is not an action", if that's the case you can make AoOs when you are Dazed, Panicked, Stunned, or even Paralyzed, because there is nothing in any of those conditions prevents you from taking AoOs, they only prevent you from taking actions.
Free actions as part of opportunity attacks are handled on a case by case basis. Currently there is only 1 or 2 cases in which this is confirmed by the dev's to work because prior to Dev intervention it did not work, such as Snap Shot.
Since the general rule is that free actions cannot be taken on other peoples turns then they cannot unless a specific effect allows it. Claiming that because you used an attack of opportunity on an enemies turn you are now allowed to perform all the free actions you want on his turn is lunacy.I'm not saying the Dev's won't change it in the future but as it stands free actions, unless otherwise specified, cannot be taken on other peoples turns.
Free actions as part of opportunity attacks are handled on a case by case basis. Currently there is only 1 or 2 cases in which this is confirmed by the dev's to work because prior to Dev intervention it did not work, such as Snap Shot.
Since the general rule is that free actions cannot be taken on other peoples turns then they cannot unless a specific effect allows it. Claiming that because you used an attack of opportunity on an enemies turn you are now allowed to perform all the free actions you want on his turn is lunacy.
I'm not saying the Dev's won't change it in the future but as it stands free actions, unless otherwise specified, cannot be taken on other peoples turns.
This is just not true. The Snap Shot FAQ was clarifying an already-existing rule, not creating a new one. There simply is no rule that says free actions cannot be taken on other people's turns. You are not permitted to take them just any time you want (except for talking,) but the rules explicitly say:
You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally.
Whenever you take an action you may perform free actions. As per the rules, your GM can limit the number of free actions he feels are reasonable to take at once, but you are explicitly allowed to take free actions when acting normally.
Back to "what makes sense", how does it make sense that "on your turn" (a totally OOC concept) you could start raging, but while making an attack against someone trying to grab you that is prohibited? How does it make sense that you could use Cornugon Smash to intimidate someone "on your turn", but bashing a wizard who is trying to cast a spell you cannot intimidate them? How does it make sense that a swashbuckler can use his attacks to cause his opponents to bleed when it's "his turn", but when his opponent is trying to escape he can't make them bleed?
The rules can be read to be contradictory.
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.
Swift Action: A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.
Immediate Action: An immediate action is very similar to a swift action, but can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn.
This seems to clearly indicate you can take a free action when taking other actions outside of your turn.
Even the explicit exception for speaking outside of your turn works with this understanding as you don't need to combine speaking with another action to do it outside of your turn.
Free Actions
. . .
Speak
In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn. Speaking more than a few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action.
However
Free Actions
Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn
. . . .
Swift Actions
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting, activating a feat, or the activation of magic items.
. . .
Immediate Actions
Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn.
So in the swift action description it says you can do swift actions anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action. And immeditates, unlike swift can be performed anytime, even it is not your turn. So swifts cannot be taken outside your turn.
However the swift action statement on anytime as a free normally is right after the sentence saying only once per turn.
And immediates say they represent a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. Immediates can be taken on other turns and require more energy than a free action.
My reading of these rules is that free actions can be done while doing other actions even outside of your turn. The reference to swifts being done anytime a free action I read to the context of swifts already being limited before to the 1/turn and indicating they can be done in a turn the same time that frees can be done in a turn, not an indication that frees are limited to the character's turn.
Ok I see your lack of insight comes from a lack of understanding of actions.
Actions as defined in PF are listed conveniently under the combat section "Action Types". You will notice that opportunity attacks is not listed in this section. There are move, standard, full-round, free, swift, immediate action, no action.
An attack of opportunity is not defined as an action of any type, in fact its not an action in its terminology. It is a free attack, full stop, end of thought, no further description on what it is.
Free actions say "when performing actions normally".
AoO's are not defined as actions, therefore no you still cannot do this.
Each round's activity begins with the character with the highest initiative result and then proceeds in order. When a character's turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round's worth of actions. (For exceptions, see Attacks of Opportunity and Special Initiative Actions.)
When your turn comes up, you perform all of your actions. Exceptions to performing actions on your turn are AoO and Delay/Ready actions.
Heading down to the referenced attacks of opportunity section:
Making an Attack of Opportunity: An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and most characters can only make one per round. You don't have to make an attack of opportunity if you don't want to. You make your attack of opportunity at your normal attack bonus, even if you've already attacked in the round.
Attack of opportunity is defined as a single melee attack.
Heading down to the Actions in Combat table shows us that a Attack(melee) is a standard action.
Therefore, an attack of opportunity is a Standard Action:attack(melee) that you get to take even if you have already acted on your turn and get to take for free (not counting against using your standard action for the turn).
As such, an AoO is an action, and you should be able to perform Free Actions along with it, subject to GM approval. The FAQ clarifies that drawing and loading the arrow for snap shot is considered approved official as a free action you can take. Others are subject to GM approval, most like, they would let you drop an item, speak, stop concentrating, maybe range. Thats about it. But as I said, its GM determined what free actions are allowed with other free actions.
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So I can AOO while stunned, paralyzed, asleep, and helpless because it is not an action?
If it's not an action you can attack people when you're sleeping if they provoke. Same with stunned or paralyzed.
You also couldn't use combat manuvers on AOO's because you can only perform them in place of other attack actions.
However, you don't threaten when unable to act, so can't take an AoO.
Attack of opportunity is defined as a single melee attack.Heading down to the Actions in Combat table shows us that a Attack(melee) is a standard action.
Therefore, an attack of opportunity is a Standard Action:attack(melee) that you get to take even if you have already acted on your turn and get to take for free (not counting against using your standard action for the turn).
As such, an AoO is an action, and you should be able to perform Free Actions along with it, subject to GM approval. The FAQ clarifies that drawing and loading the arrow for snap shot is considered approved official as a free action you can take. Others are subject to GM approval, most like, they would let you drop an item, speak, stop concentrating, maybe range. Thats about it. But as I said, its GM determined what free actions are allowed with other free actions.
Hahaha, you are really getting it wrong here. An attack of opportunity isn't a standard action. It's 1 melee attack. Yes you can use a standard action to do the attack action which lets you make 1 attack. That is not the same as 1 melee attack. If it was a standard action then I could vital strike with it. Do you think you can vital strike with an AoO?
An AoO is not an action, if it was it would be classified as such under the list of things that are actions.
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So I can AOO while stunned, paralyzed, asleep, and helpless because it is not an action?If it's not an action you can attack people when you're sleeping if they provoke. Same with stunned or paralyzed.
You also couldn't use combat maneuvers on AOO's because you can only perform them in place of other attack actions.
RAW, yes, because none of those effects stop you from performing an AoO. Most of them make you drop what you are holding, and therefore you couldn't AoO in most cases, but yes, if you had a natural attack, by RAW you can AoO while asleep.
This is of course complete lunacy and no self respecting GM is going to follow it, but there it is. This is one of the rare times when common sense would actually come in to place. And no before you jump on it, the ability to fly into a rage on someone elses turn does not constitute "common sense" (try asking both questions to someone who's never played the game, they'll say "huh" to the raging on someone else's turn, and "well duh" to the attacking while asleep one)Now that that bit of backwash is complete, point still stands: AoO is not an action and cannot have free actions riding on it.
However, you COULD have it ride on an immediate action which i'm surprised no one's brought up.
Hahaha, you are really getting it wrong here. An attack of opportunity isn't a standard action. It's 1 melee attack. Yes you can use a standard action to do the attack action which lets you make 1 attack. That is not the same as 1 melee attack. If it was a standard action then I could vital strike with it. Do you think you can vital strike with an AoO?
An AoO is not an action, if it was it would be classified as such under the list of things that are actions.
Its specifically a Standard Action:Attack(melee) not just a free standard action. Its type is already decided, so you cannot vital strike because that would be a Standard Action:Vital Strike. For the same reason you can sub a sunder or trip attempt for an AoO, is because those replace the attack(melee).
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Here's a quote by JJ that actually completely contradicts what I've been saying: HERE
So this leads me to believe you might actually be able to do this. Of course, RAW still stands and you can't make free actions on AoO because they are not actions, until they Errata it. But that quote says the Dev's intend for AoO's to be actions even though they don't say so.
Hmm....I might 180 on this one, that's rare. Back to more researching!
Hmmm, does that mean you can vital strike on AoO's?
That buffs vital strike for reach characters significantly in my mind!
Again, no. You get a Standard Action:Attack(melee) for an AoO, not a Standard Action:Vital Strike.
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you don't get a Standard Action:Attack(melee)
You get 1 free melee attack as an Attack of opportunity. Yes 1 melee attack can be a standard action, that doesn't make 1 melee attack from an AoO an standard action.
because it can go 1 way doesn't mean going the other way is always or automatic.
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you don't get a Standard Action:Attack(melee)
You get 1 free melee attack as an Attack of opportunity. Yes 1 melee attack can be a standard action, that doesn't make 1 melee attack from an AoO an standard action.because it can go 1 way doesn't mean going the other way is always or automatic.
Making an Attack of Opportunity: An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and most characters can only make one per round. You don't have to make an attack of opportunity if you don't want to. You make your attack of opportunity at your normal attack bonus, even if you've already attacked in the round.
Table: Actions in Combat
Standard Action Attack of Opportunity
Attack (melee) No
The only "single melee attack" that exists is as a standard action. Having an opponent provoke an AoO gives you that as a free attack. It still follows the rules of the standard action:attack(melee) as far as bonuses, being able to sub out to a trip or sunder attempt, etc.
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faq about this
Good to see them answer this at least. Adding that they intend to Errata it was a nice touch.
faq about this
So this would then point to no you can't rage as a free action when it's not your turn (even if you make an AoO to have an "action").
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I don't think the intent is all that clear. It's pretty muddled actually, hence all the arguing.
But I think they likely found it substantially easier to rule that these select corner cases work rather than attempting to redefine the definition and usage of a free action. One can only gape at the can of worms that would have opened up, and likely would have lead to even more FAQ's and rewrites. Simply stating these corner cases work is much easier.
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Half a dozen abilities that we all knew functioned the way the FAQ says they do despite there not being an official ruling on it until today, when weighed against the thousands of abilities Pathfinder has or even the hundreds of abilities that changing the functionality of a free action would affect, would be considered corner cases, yes.
Regardless, the dev's have spoken and this thread has been answered. I'm out.