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So, I’ve been DMing pathfinder for about 8 months now, and playing for slightly over a year. In DM-ing, I have one (pretty significant) weakness: I SUCK at balancing fights.
My first campaign had only 2 players, both martials, so they where really tough and the only problem was the occasional lucky crit.
My current party is a lot more diverse (and frail) so I am considerably more concerned. I have been fudging rolls (I know how much many people dislike it), and reducing monster XP mid-battle when I realised they would be slaughtered.
I don’t want to run an overall murderous game. They aren’t “unwise” players either (each group had occasion where they engaged with an enemy, got scared, then ran), and I think it’s more of an issue of me properly evaluating the true challenge of the creatures/NPCs/etc. So I’m asking for advice/help on how to better.
Ask for their maximum hp, saves, and ACs then figure out what they're best at when it comes to combat by looking at their spells and class features; if they're best at handling multiple targets then throw more creatures that are weaker at them, if they handle a smaller group of targets then throw that at them more. Calculate the CR for all of the encounters that have gotten out of hand and see if they were a lot higher then you expected. Ultimately you need to look at each of your monsters and think how each of your players would be able to handle them.
Several general pieces of advice:
Start small, then edge upwards. Put in something that the players can clearly defeat, then add a few small monsters around the edge (a pet wolf for the bugbear, two young goblins, whatever). Eventually you'll get it right, and meanwhile the players aren't being slaughtered.
Don't do swingy monsters, at least until you know what they do. In theory an orc warrior is CR 1/2 and a speedbump for a level 1 party -- but if he has a greataxe with its _x3_ crit multiplier, he WILL kill someone if he crits. Use creatures with steadier attacks, at least at first.
Consider morale -- a lot of times, people will run if half their comrades drop. Even if technically they're winning, they may not see it in the heat of battle. (Obviously there are exceptions, such as undead, or highly trained soldiers, or anyone defending their home and children -- but having monsters break and run, particularly if the players take some effort to make that happen, can be a good tool to keep the party alive.)
Work with multiple encounters rather than One Big Encounter, and multiple monsters rather than One Big Monster. PCs can successfully remove part of the threat by small successes, and one failed save or PC crit won't end the encounter too fast. More tactical options is more fun for everyone (most of the time, anyway), which is also not a small consideration.
Don't try to make every combat a nail-biting edge-of-the-seat encounter. Those can swing the wrong way very easily. One failed save, one nasty crit, and a PC goes down, and the fight tilts the wrong way. Wear the PCs down slowly, and let them back off if they want to -- most of the time. Sounds like your party knows when to retreat, which is good. Pursue them _occasionally_ but not every time.
CR is a very rough tool -- flying monsters against a melee-oriented party, monsters with save-or-lose effects against a party without the right saves, terrain-advantaged monsters (e.g., wraiths Spring Attacking out of the walls, or swimming monsters attacking a party in a boat) can be much tougher than you think. Monsters with One Big Attack can crit and kill, especially if the T. rex tries to bite the unarmored guy in the back first... Look at max damage as well as average damage, and what happens if PCs fail their saves (which they will, from time to time. Even Rasputin can roll a nat 1 on his Fort save, or Merlin a nat 1 on his Will save.)
Don't be afraid to have stupid or foolish monsters use bad tactics -- a bunch of goblins may try weird and crazy stuff that doesn't actually do a lot of immediate harm; several creatures might spread out and fight one-on-one rather than ganging up on a single target (tactically more effective to focus everything on one and kill him, but not everyone will realize that). Of course, some monsters should use smarter tactics, but you can use that as a balancing factor. And having the captain of the guard yelling instructions at his mooks to do the right thing can be fun in the midst of battle.
Have monsters with save-or-cry, or save-or-hurt, spells and abilities, rather than save-or-lose, or save-or-die. PCs can take damage and still act, or take a debuff and still act, which lets them heroically struggle through and still contribute to the battle. PCs that just keel over and die, or drop to a sleep/hold effect, are instant cannon fodder and the battle swings against the others. Save those tactics for occasional use, and give the PCs fair warning. (PARTICULARLY true with things like gaze attacks that affect everybody nearby -- medusas and basilisks are fearsome foes; I nearly killed a 10th-level party with a CR7 half-dragon basilisk once.)
Don't try and resolve EVERYTHING with combat. If the PCs try parley or bluff or intimidation as a tactic, let it work from time to time. If they learn they can only prevail by slaughter, then they'll not try anything else and they'll get slaughtered occasionally themselves. Depends on your players trying that, of course, but you can always nudge them by having enemies yield themselves as prisoners, or offer ransom if they're let go, or trying to talk first and see if the PCs listen. Guards can be bribed, animals decoyed with food, weak-willed people bluffed or intimidated into yielding. Not all resolutions need be at swords' point.
What level are you at? If you're at or above lv9 raising dead isn't that hard and so let it happen. Also let characters drop and have the enemy move on and not kill them. It's better to take down the guys still up and doing damage than killing one. I feel if you pick a CR appropriate fight, or have a few ideas of how to fight the encounter (eg. use fly against melee, sleep spell, wall spells). I feel that there are times where PC's feel that they are so strong that who needs to use tactics or plans. Also as I player I like it when the GM doesn't fudge to keep us alive, because then I can continue to not care and have the GM save me every time.
Big thanks to those who responded (especially tonyz). I've been playing at low level for now (under level 7) so as to make sure I get the basic stuff down before the mess of higher levels (which I havent really played much either so...).
-I do like the idea of starting small & working up. Seems like the most manageable way to gage player efficiency, though with resource-based classes things might get difficult fast.
Swingy monsters: I think for the moment I will simply change all enemy statblocks to have a x2 crit multiplier, for sake of ease.
-I have used morale before, and when a "dum" enemy is bloodied (most animals & vermin (which I use a lot at low levels), some humanoids) they will usually run.
-I'll have to get a better grip on the save or hurt/save or cry stuff, though I havent used enemies with SLAs much.
-I do generally allow diplomacy (in my current group, our druid talked off a group of snapper turtles) when appropriate. Still, my love of vermin makes this difficult sometimes. My games are 50-50 on the "violence" vs "social" combat stuff, so I try to be fair.
In any case, thanks for the advice folks. Hopefully I can make combat more meaningfull. Last week was hard as I had only 3 of the usual 5 players present.
I have to ask: Do you actually understand the CR system? A lot of people don't necessarily interpret the numbers correctly (e.g., a level 4 fighter is not a CR 4 encounter) or add them together correctly (two CR 4 monsters are not CR4 or CR 5, but CR 6).
I've seen novice game masters who treat CR numbers as interchangeable with character levels and then wonder why the CR 20 balor is so unbalanced against a 20-level party (four 5th level characters).
I have to ask: Do you actually understand the CR system? A lot of people don't necessarily interpret the numbers correctly (e.g., a level 4 fighter is not a CR 4 encounter) or add them together correctly (two CR 4 monsters are not CR4 or CR 5, but CR 6).
I've seen novice game masters who treat CR numbers as interchangeable with character levels and then wonder why the CR 20 balor is so unbalanced against a 20-level party (four 5th level characters).
I've taken the time to properly read the CR methods, though everything is balanced around a 4-man party (IE, CR 4 will be a "fair" fight for a 4-man, level 4 party). And the nature of the action economy can make multi-person fights swingy. But yeah, a balor... eheheh...
Most important question - are your players having fun?
If yes, you are doing something right.
Running a game for any less than three players (and any more than five players) really warps things. One problem is that once a PC is incapacitated in a two player game, the other player is playing solo pretty quickly. A total party kill is a very real possibility.
My only advice is to gauge what they can handle with "bait" encounters (easy conflicts that attract the attention of a larger threat).
What level is the party, and give the breakdown of fight where they were getting their butts kicked that was not a boss fight? The devil is in the details sometimes.
Another thing to remember: a standard CR-equal fight is not supposed to be a risky challenge for the party. It's supposed to be an easily achievable fight where the party loses some resources but is ultimately near risk-free.
In fact, a good thing to keep in mind at all times is that the party is *supposed to win*. Only a BBEG fight or serious plot moment should have a substantial risk of TPKing a party (and even then, only if the DM can handle the consequences!) A lot of DMs I know forget this and build their monsters too strong.
Tonyz had a lot of good advice.
I had to do an enormous amount of on the fly encounter adjusting in 4th and it taught me a few lessons:
1.) Player habits usually determine success and failure more than character skills. Try to get a good feel for what you players can handle by intelligently playing weaker encounters. If you have a 4th level party, try to rough them up with a bunch of stock kobolds. Play smart. Rush the casters, throw a couple of tanglefoot bags, put minions between the player front lines and back lines. The kobolds probably can't kill the party due to their inherent weak nature, but this will illustrate for you how your players react.
2.) Do not exploit player habit weaknesses all the time. As a DM, it's very likely that you are the best strategist in the group. Remember, it's not your job to win. It's your job to facilitate the player story.
3.) Be very careful about "unkillable" monsters if your players play weakly. Shadows (unhittable), ghouls (paralysis), gargoyles (high DR) can all wipe parties fast. Worse, their technical CR doesn't scale well at all. A bunch of shadows will kill parties much faster than a bunch of ogres, despite them being the same CR. 3 Shadows have a statistically significant chance of killing a player other than a frontliner each round whereas the ogres are more likely to simply incap someone.
Tonyz had a lot of good advice.
I had to do an enormous amount of on the fly encounter adjusting in 4th and it taught me a few lessons:
1.) Player habits usually determine success and failure more than character skills. Try to get a good feel for what you players can handle by intelligently playing weaker encounters. If you have a 4th level party, try to rough them up with a bunch of stock kobolds. Play smart. Rush the casters, throw a couple of tanglefoot bags, put minions between the player front lines and back lines. The kobolds probably can't kill the party due to their inherent weak nature, but this will illustrate for you how your players react.
2.) Do not exploit player habit weaknesses all the time. As a DM, it's very likely that you are the best strategist in the group. Remember, it's not your job to win. It's your job to facilitate the player story.
3.) Be very careful about "unkillable" monsters if your players play weakly. Shadows (unhittable), ghouls (paralysis), gargoyles (high DR) can all wipe parties fast. Worse, their technical CR doesn't scale well at all. A bunch of shadows will kill parties much faster than a bunch of ogres, despite them being the same CR. 3 Shadows have a statistically significant chance of killing a player other than a frontliner each round whereas the ogres are more likely to simply incap someone.
More good stuff Gevaudan. Your #1 reccomendation reminds me of my previous campaign (2 martials) where, at level 5-6 (dont remember) I had them rushed by morlocks with nets, and a single (stronger) chief that was the same level as them. It was slaughter. Hm...
As for #3, I was playing a oneshot where the final boss was a robot spider (hardness 5...) that was a huge difficulty. They where three, and the fight ended with 2 of them KO and the last at 2-3 HP.
Thanks for more good advice.
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First off, you seem to be doing very well for a beginner DM. A few things to keep in mind:
First, CR is not the end-all/be-all of encounter building. I've found that CR actually means very little in determining how well a party can do. I've had times where an equal CR monster was deadly, and a PL+3 CR was walk in the park.
Generally speaking, avoid monsters with Hardness/DR unless it aids the story. People HATE playing against them, and they just pad out the fight. Learn roughly what your group can handle, then tailor your encounters based on that. Most of all, don't always expect to predict what your group can do. I've had fights that I tailored up or down for the group before hand, and then reverted changes or made them mid-fight because I was wrong, and they were fine with the task at hand.
Basically, if you can stay on your toes and keep things interesting, then you're doing well.
One thing that might help is CR is probably factoring in something like, FIGHTER TYPE, WIZARD TYPE, CLERIC TYPE, and BARD TYPE. so if you're party isn't fitting that it could mess with some encounters. Swarms can be super deadly if you don't have any AOE magic, because then you can't hurt them.
"Balance" is overrated. I actually think it's important for some combat encounters to be underwhelming in order to give the PCs a sense of confidence in their abilities. On the other side of the spectrum, combat encounters that are just the right amount of overwhelming force the players to think beyond their character sheet and look at the encounter as something more than just a game event they have to "win".
Don't worry too much about perfectly balancing individual combats. Give them a series of unbalanced combats that put them on an emotional rollercoaster that zig-zags between them feeling like badasses and feeling like rugged survivors.
First off, you seem to be doing very well for a beginner DM. A few things to keep in mind:
First, CR is not the end-all/be-all of encounter building. I've found that CR actually means very little in determining how well a party can do. I've had times where an equal CR monster was deadly, and a PL+3 CR was walk in the park.
Generally speaking, avoid monsters with Hardness/DR unless it aids the story. People HATE playing against them, and they just pad out the fight. Learn roughly what your group can handle, then tailor your encounters based on that. Most of all, don't always expect to predict what your group can do. I've had fights that I tailored up or down for the group before hand, and then reverted changes or made them mid-fight because I was wrong, and they were fine with the task at hand.
Basically, if you can stay on your toes and keep things interesting, then you're doing well.
I'm all too aware of the limits of CR. And I know I will avoid hardness/significant DR before level 5 (hardness is more trouble than I originally thought). Everybody seems to be having fun, so I'm happy, I just want to improve my quality as a GM, and I know there are a significant amount of "tactical" players that want challenging (but fair) fights. Thanks for everything folks.
"Balance" is overrated. I actually think it's important for some combat encounters to be underwhelming in order to give the PCs a sense of confidence in their abilities. On the other side of the spectrum, combat encounters that are just the right amount of overwhelming force the players to think beyond their character sheet and look at the encounter as something more than just a game event they have to "win".
On the other hand, it's really helpful if you as the GM know which side of the line any specific encounter is supposed to fall on.
There's a big difference between running unbalanced encounters through incompetence and running them by choice.
Have you seen this guide? I have found it useful for balancing encounters for parties larger or smaller than the standard 4 that the CR system assumes.
Have you seen this guide? I have found it useful for balancing encounters for parties larger or smaller than the standard 4 that the CR system assumes.
Ahg I had forgotten about Alexander Augunas's guide! I'll need to check it out again. Mind you, it is about challenging encounters, and I dont think my players are ready for APL+4 yet, they arent optimizers (most of them this si their first time with pathfinder)
I think there's a lot to be said about teaching new players through repetitive encounter mechanics. We have a new barbarian player who's mounted on a pet.
On her first few encounters, she swung her sword at things and obliterated them. So she got confident.
On her next encounter, she charged a creature confidently and her mount got poisoned. She fled.
On the encounter after that, her mount got poisoned again and the creature had DR 5. She tried to flee, got caught in a corner and beat the creature to death despite its DR.
A few encounters later, a creature with DR 10 and no poison.
After a few repetitive encounters, she began asking questions like:
1.) Can I determine in advance if it can poison me?
2.) How much DR can I bypass by brute force?
3.) How else can I bypass DR?
This learning in situation is really crucial to avoid constant meta-game teaching. The "run away" option was generally available though.
The danger of OP encounters is that players only learn that they got wiped.
While portions of his guide are about how to make encounters more challenging, the CR/experience table makes sizing encounters easier.
The table gives an XP per character expectation. Experimenting with the table, you learn that for two players, a APL+2 encounter published in a module expecting four players is actually closer to a APL+4. Running with five players instead of four almost reduces each CR by one. With that knowledge you can add or subtract monsters to scale fights more appropriately.