The CRB states that a character takes a -5 penalty to his ride check for having an "ill-suited" mount.
Is there a list of suited and ill-suited mounts in PFS?
What if your Gnome Druid wants to ride his Ape AC, and has trained the critter for the purpose practically from birth, and has purchased an exotic saddle for the animal, and has trained the animal for combat and Riding in combat? Must the PC still suffer the -5 penalty?
I took this to my VC, who more or less shrugged and said, "Makes sense, but up to the DM."
I don't want to cheat (plus or minus 5 is a lot when using Mounted Combat), and I also don't want to have to launch into the discussion at the start of every module. Can I get a ruling on this?
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The best option is going to be to try to have a conversation with the DM whenever possible, but be prepared to accept the -5 penalty from table to table.
Sometimes dues to scheduling there isn't a lot of time to talk to the GM beforehand at a scenario, and you may run into table variation where a GM makes a ruling that you take the -5.
If that's going to be a dealbreaker for you, this might be a character concept that is better in a home game.
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I'm sorry, but to me an ape is definitely an ill-suited mount for a regular humanoid. It's center of gravity and balance would be totally out of whack from its normal stance.
Something you can "see" being a semi-"normal" sitting arrangement to ride that didn't alter the basic movement of the creature would be required at my table to avoid that -5 at first glance. If you had a really good set of circumstances, or unequivocal rules citation, that explains how it works without it I'd take another look at my position.
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I'd allow you to mount your ape. That's exactly how young apes get around.
But, to the more general question (which isn't PFS specific), there is no list of ill-suited mounts. I think everyone might agree that snakes make poor mounts, but beyond that, it's up to your imagination.
There will be no PFS ruling on this. That involves the creation of rules for the PFRPG, and that just simply not the job of Campaign management.
Up to the dm, sorry. There are waaaaay too many weird things that pathfinders will try to put a saddle on and ride to list them all.
And yet they managed to make a list of animals that are acceptable Companions for Druids. Wouldn't it make sense to allow any of these as "suitable" mounts (for a Druid), provided that the druid was a size category smaller than the AC?
If the body is not more or less horizontal, I would say it is ill suited. So, pretty much nothing on the humanoid chart, and I would probably need someone to argue me into the serpentine chart.
You mean this chart? I don't see Apes there.
Primates are on the Animals Chart. Gorillas tend to run and even saunter around on all fours, keeping their back more or less horizontal while they do it.
Climbing is another matter, which is why I purchased both an exotic saddle and a masterwork tool of riding (skinned as a strap to lock the rider in place).
Im curious as to how you combat trained that thing.
How does one combat train a wolf or a bear or a dinosaur?
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Im curious as to how you combat trained that thing.How does one combat train a wolf or a bear or a dinosaur?
Very carefully :)
But Wolves, bears, and T rexes have int scores of 2, meaning when you start play it already has 6 tricks for the two int and a bonus trick floating around (which should probably go into the second attack trick) A dragonfly starts at mindless, which is 1 trick. The soonest i can figure out how to combat train it is 4 unless you take the human eye for talent alternate racial feature.
Im curious as to how you combat trained that thing.How does one combat train a wolf or a bear or a dinosaur?
Very carefully :)
But Wolves, bears, and T rexes have int scores of 2, meaning when you start play it already has 6 tricks for the two int and a bonus trick floating around (which should probably go into the second attack trick) A dragonfly starts at mindless, which is 1 trick. The soonest i can figure out how to combat train it is 4 unless you take the human eye for talent alternate racial feature.
Attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel are what comes with Combat Training. Add Stay to that and it's trained in the full suites of Riding and Combat training, no?
Do you really have to train the animal to use its attacks separately?
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six tricks would require the mount (wasp you said?) to have an INT of at least 2.
Vermin have INT of 0 normally... so how do you get around that?
At level 4 you up its intelligence to 1, which gets it a feat which you use for extra slot , extra slot goes to a +2 int headband
A more economical option is to cast wartrain mount on it.
A more economical option is to cast wartrain mount on it.
Yep, just make sure you have an ability that lets you treat vermin as animals for spells, because normally wartrain mount only affects animals:
"You instill the target animal with the combat training general purpose (see Handle Animal). This supersedes the animal’s previous trained purpose and any tricks it knows. When the spell ends, it reverts to its previous trained purpose and known tricks."
Im curious as to how you combat trained that thing.How does one combat train a wolf or a bear or a dinosaur?Very carefully :)
But Wolves, bears, and T rexes have int scores of 2, meaning when you start play it already has 6 tricks for the two int and a bonus trick floating around (which should probably go into the second attack trick) A dragonfly starts at mindless, which is 1 trick. The soonest i can figure out how to combat train it is 4 unless you take the human eye for talent alternate racial feature.
Attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel are what comes with Combat Training. Add Stay to that and it's trained in the full suites of Riding and Combat training, no?
Do you really have to train the animal to use its attacks separately?
six tricks would require the mount (wasp you said?) to have an INT of at least 2.
Vermin have INT of 0 normally... so how do you get around that?
lol I thought you were referring to me and my Ape!
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Been away from this thread for a few days...
I started with 4 levels of Dragoon(Fighter archetype). At level 5, I took Boon Companion and started taking levels of Hunter. This starts the wasp at level 5, gets it the 1 point of INT needed for feats, and allows me to get it an additional equipment slot for Headband of Vast Intellect +2. This gave me 9 tricks, plus the bonus tricks to start with. The character was a GM credit baby until level 3, which rode a combat trained pony around at levels 3 and 4. At 5, I had a Giant Wasp fully combat trained and ready to go.