Having both Mythic and Non-Mythic PCs in this AP

[Warmaster Holden Ajidica]

This question may have already been answered before, but are their any suggestions for having a mix of Mythic and Non-Mythic PCs? Two players joined after ascension in the first step of this AP, so they're Non-Mythic. Should I just augment XP earned for them? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Holden

[Duiker]

Just make them mythic. The power difference between mythic and non is so large that having both in the same party in that AP will be like having half the party be tenth level and half fifth.

[Warmaster Holden Ajidica]

Duiker wrote:

Just make them mythic. The power difference between mythic and non is so large that having both in the same party in that AP will be like having half the party be tenth level and half fifth.

Ug, is it that big of a difference?

Holden

[Artanthos]

Mythic is a force multiplier.

[Tangent101]

Each Mythic Tier is the equivalence to one class level.

If you were to do this, I'd NOT allow Mythic character to use Hero Points. The non-Mythic characters should have Hero Points that regenerate each game (maybe +1 Hero Point per session). Also see the "non-Mythic boosts" suggested at the end of the first Mythic module.

[Duiker]

Holden Ajidica wrote:

Duiker wrote:

Just make them mythic. The power difference between mythic and non is so large that having both in the same party in that AP will be like having half the party be tenth level and half fifth.

Ug, is it that big of a difference?

Holden

It's a monumental difference. I played through all 6 books of WotR, all the way to level 20, tier 10.

Just to give three off the cuff examples that are not particularly powerful in the context of mythic, but imagine how left out and frustrated that players without them will feel constantly while the other half of the table is dropping them:

1. Surge. Spend a mythic point, tack a 1d6 onto any d20 roll (goes up in dice as tiers go up). How will you feel when everyone else is doing this and you can't? All mythics get this from tier 1.

2. Mythic initiative. How will your dextrous ranger feel when the dex 10 cleric has a +24 to initiative at tier 10, and can spend a point to take 20 on it? Although not everyone gets this, every single person took the feat in my party because how can you not with the power it gives?

3. Hard to kill. Every first tier mythic auto-stabilizes below zero and doesn't die until negative double con. Again, imagine the frustration of the half of the table that doesn't get this.

4. Amazing initiative. At tier two every mythic can spend a point to get an extra standard action on their turn. Isn't it fun when half the party regularly gets to do twice as much as the other half?

Again, this stuff isn't even getting into how powerful actual mythic feats and abilities are, this is just the automatic baseline difference.

[Tangent101]

Most of these can be replicated with Hero Points (HP).

1. Surge. Well, you can spend one HP for a +8 to the roll before rolling, or +4 to the roll afterward. That trumps Surge for most of the tiers.

3. Hard to kill. Well, two HP will allow you to live even when you should have died. The GM could even handwave this to be one HP, seeing that Mythic gets that for free.

4. HP can be used to act out of your turn or gain an additional move or standard action.

Really, much of Mythic appears to be an evolution of the Hero Point system. The one thing that isn't in there is the Mythic Initiative, and a lot of GMs find that to be broken.

[Duiker]

Tangent101 wrote:

Most of these can be replicated with Hero Points (HP).

1. Surge. Well, you can spend one HP for a +8 to the roll before rolling, or +4 to the roll afterward. That trumps Surge for most of the tiers.

3. Hard to kill. Well, two HP will allow you to live even when you should have died. The GM could even handwave this to be one HP, seeing that Mythic gets that for free.

4. HP can be used to act out of your turn or gain an additional move or standard action.

Really, much of Mythic appears to be an evolution of the Hero Point system. The one thing that isn't in there is the Mythic Initiative, and a lot of GMs find that to be broken.

I don't know anything about hero points, but the OP has never mentioned using them, and since they're not part of any core assumption of the game, I wouldn't think the solution would be "just use hero point differently" when there's no hint he's using hero points in the first place.

[Tangent101]

Hero Points are in the Advanced Player's Guide. They are also talked about as an alternative for Mythic in the AP itself. And including both HP and Mythic for the same characters is very much an overkill. But HP provides a dynamic for NON-Mythic characters to survive and flourish, especially in an environment where Mythic characters shine.

Seeing that the GM wants to know how to include or incorporate non-Mythic players after the Mythic boost happens, I figure HPs works well for this. Best of all, it allows a simpler dynamic for people who don't want the extra complexity of Mythic. Because it can get confusing - you're talking about what could become 16 additional features on a character sheet, depending on which Feats and Path abilities are chosen.