Would you two Shut UP?!?! Twin Black Blades and the trouble they cause...


Advice

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on a second look of my musings from last night, i sorta butchered it:

you need 5 levels in blade adept (i didn't notice it ate the 1st and 3rd exploits) for it to scale--not 3--which really hurts the build.

both swords can only get to 15th level advancement, and only start scaling at 11th level, making this not nearly as feasible as i initially thought.

i made a (largely incomplete) build to try it out:

Spoiler:
DUAL-BB magus build

elf blade adept arcanist 5 / bladebound/kensai magus 15
(MAG 3/ARC 5/MAG +12)
* - 12 levels of elf magus FCB, leftover 3 in HP

START - str 10, dex 16 (5+2r), con 14 (10-2r), int 16 (5+2r), wis 10, cha 10
END - str 16, dex 32, con 20, int 26, wis 16, cha 16
+5 dex (level), +6 all (gear), +5dex, +4 int (book/wish)

traits: magical knack (magus) / sword scion

arcane reservoir: 8 max, 5 at start of day

arcane pool: 13
magus BB pool: 4

exploits:
8 - eldritch blade

arcana:
11 - arcane accuracy, enduring blade*
17 - spell shield, ghost blade*
20 - quicken magic

feats:
1 - EWP (aldori dueling sword)*, weapon focus (ADS)*, weapon finesse (ADS)
3 - slashing grace (ADS)
5 - TWF
7 - quick draw
9 - ???
10 - ???*
11 - ITWF
13 - weapon spec (ADS)
15 - ???
16 - greater weapon focus (ADS)*
17 - GTWF
19 - ???

.
BAB +13/+8/+3 (0/1/1|0/1 / 0/1/0|1/0 / 1/1/1/0/1 / 1/1/0/1/1)

ATTACK (before buffs other than haste and arcane accuracy)
SC+SS 40/40/40*/35/30 (13 BAB, 11 dex, 5 enhance, 1 trait, 2 focus, 8 AA, +2 haste, -2 SC)
TWF 38/38/38*/33/33/28/28 (13 BAB, 11 dex, 5 enhance, 1 trait, 2 feat, 8 AA, +2 haste, -4 TWF)

AC 45 (10, 6 silken ceremonial armor, 11 dex, 8 int, 5 natural, 5 deflect)
TOuCH 34
FF 26

SAVES 21f/22r/21w
MAG 10/5/10
ARC 1/1/3
STAT 5/11/3
SHDR 5/5/5

.

NOTES:
the build would also be better at attacking if it used sawtooth sabers instead of aldori dueling swords (since the counts-as-light for twf would reduce the attack penalty), but hey.

there's four open feats (one of which must be a magus bonus feat) that could be used to further increase your attack bonus, or for something like agile maneuvers or the step up (and strike) line if that's your thing.

you'd need to focus more on spells like chill touch and less on shocking grasp, since you're putting lots more attacks downfield. you've also gotta choose between TWF and spell combat and free up a hand accordingly as needed.

it's interesting, but casting becomes a real issue since both of your hands are occupied (until you can get a glove of storing or somesuch) after 4-6th level. before then you're largely just a regular DD magus with a more unique weapon and slightly worse BAB.

it seems fairly respectable on the lategame offense/defense, unless you're going up against cthulu or something (in which case only a 19-20 would save you from instant death from his aura).


It seems to me that your arcanist blade only progresses to level 5 since your arcanist caster level stops there.


afaik it just says caster level (not your arcanist caster level). i assume it takes your highest caster level (in this case the magus' once you get to level 11+).

that said, if that is the case, then arcanist (and eldritch blade y extension) wouldn't even be worth looking at for literally anything but EK/hellknight signifier, which seems too needlessly restrictive--even for paizo's usually dumb decisions.


Natan Linggod 327 wrote:

Speaking as a GM myself, I would allow dual black blades , depending on circumstances.

I would also suggest simply taking one class that grants a black blade rather than two, And to give you two blades, I would split the Black blades abilities/progression the way a Broodmaster Summoners split Eidolons progress.

That is to say, keep the base mental stats, and ego, equal between the two but divide stat boosts, skill ranks, enhancement bonus and arcane pool between the two.

That's a really interesting idea. I like it in concept, but mechanically I think it would run into some trouble. The issue I see with it is that it would get some serious diminishing returns as the character leveled up.

Two-weapon fighting operates at an inherent penalty to begin with. For a character without full BaB that's a really hard obstacle to overcome. Serious magical enhancement is essentially required for the character to be an effective combatant at all. If each blackblade is only getting half of the usual bonuses, that's an even steeper penalty.

I would worry that it would quickly run into the "flurry of misses" problem that monks have as they level up.

Any ideas on how to keep that from happening?


high BAB class levels (like going into EK+hellknight signifier), or really heavy buff reliance (which magus does have fairly easy access to via his pool and the BB's pool, as well as the magus and wizard spell lists).


They don't both need to be bound, why not just happen to have a second weapon that happens to be intelligent. Then it could be whatever you want it to be and your black blade could hate it seeing it as inferior. You could even make it a shield if you wanted.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Dude, was it worth expending a diamond valued 5,000 gp to raise this thread?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Gray Warden wrote:
Dude, was it worth expending a diamond valued 5,000 gp to raise this thread?

Don't be silly, this was a 5 year necro. Definitely 25,000 gp needed for a true res.


LazarX wrote:

I would not allow a character to have two blackblades any more than I would allow two familiars.

The classes however, can stack for blackblade progression though.

I don't see where the rules technically prohibit this, though.

Both Class Abilities prohibit Familiars, but neither actually says it is a Familiar. The Arcanist Ability says it is like the Arcane Bond Wizard Class Feature, but it doesn't say it is a Familiar and not a Bonded Object.

If you are saying that conceptually, 2 such blades should not be allowed, I don't disagree: I find it highly unlikely that a PC was ever intended to have 2 Black Blades. But I don't see where it is technically, per RAW, not allowed.


CampinCarl9127 wrote:
Gray Warden wrote:
Dude, was it worth expending a diamond valued 5,000 gp to raise this thread?
Don't be silly, this was a 5 year necro. Definitely 25,000 gp needed for a true res.

Oops, didn't look at the dates. But meh, I never understood why necroing a thread was bad.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

It's not really bad, it's just that anybody who was interested in the topic is likely no longer around, so you're usually talking to a wall.

And of course, those of us who like to make fun of you for talking to said wall.

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