| 63 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
So, this is something that's been bugging me and many other players. The question is twofold:
"Does a Bloodrager have to take the Draconic Bloodline to qualify for Dragon Disciple?"
and
"Is a Bloodrager's Bloodline advanced by Dragon Disciple?"
Hopefully this can get answered quickly.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
The response I have most often heard (nothing official) is yes to the first an no to the second.
And before you explode, I agree that makes no sense what so ever.
If you had searched for this you'd have seen that this exact question was asked a week ago. link
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If you had searched for this you'd have seen that this exact question was asked a week ago. link
To be fair, the OP in this thread actually gave the nice clean FAQ request format that the Paizo team has asked for, whereas in the linked thread the OP included clutter about Primalist blah blah blah that should've been in a follow-up post.
And this one already has more FAQ clicks :)
No to both.
Requirements
To qualify to become a dragon disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria...
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation. If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline. If the character gains levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the draconic bloodline.
Blood of Dragons
...If the dragon disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, he instead gains bloodline powers of the draconic bloodline, using his dragon disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained
Dragon Disciple only affects, and is only affected by, sorcerer bloodlines. It does not require the bloodline from non-sorcerers, and it does not actually grant the bloodline itself, only the bloodline powers. Your Bloodrager bloodline is irrelevant to Dragon Disciple.
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No to both.
Requirements
To qualify to become a dragon disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria...
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation. If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline. If the character gains levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the draconic bloodline.
Dragon Disciple only affects, and is only affected by, sorcerer bloodlines. It does not require the bloodline from non-sorcerers, and it does not actually grant the bloodline itself, only the bloodline powers. Your Bloodrager bloodline is irrelevant to Dragon Disciple.Blood of Dragons
...If the dragon disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, he instead gains bloodline powers of the draconic bloodline, using his dragon disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained
The ACG says:
"Parent Classes: Each one of the following classes lists twoclasses that it draws upon to form the basis of its theme.
While a character can multiclass with these parent classes,
this usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities
don’t stack unless specified. If a class feature allows the
character to make a one-time choice (such as a bloodline),
that choice must match similar choices made by the parent
classes and vice-versa (such as selecting the same bloodline)."
Which would strongly indicate that the Bloodrager bloodline and Sorcerer bloodline count as the same thing.
The ACG says:
"Parent Classes: Each one of the following classes lists two
classes that it draws upon to form the basis of its theme.
While a character can multiclass with these parent classes,
this usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities
don’t stack unless specified. If a class feature allows the
character to make a one-time choice (such as a bloodline),
that choice must match similar choices made by the parent
classes and vice-versa (such as selecting the same bloodline)."Which would strongly indicate that the Bloodrager bloodline and Sorcerer bloodline count as the same thing.
Except there's nothing to say they are the same thing. So there's a clause saying they have to be the same bloodline. But that isn't a proof that it's the same thing. There's a clause here of how they interact. Just like how zen archer flurry says it doesn't work with rapid shot, while the sohei's can. So there's no saying why the zen can't other than it says so. Just like this blood, they have to be the same, but unless they come out and say more about this they aren't the same thing.
I imagine the intent is for the answer to both be Yes. However, this definitely needs to be FAQ'd.
This is something that definitely needs to be answered. It seems most likely like it should be advanced, but the current rules don't have the text needed.
Since this question was asked for the playtest version it should have been answered in the final printing and not need a FAQ.
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No to both.
Requirements
To qualify to become a dragon disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria...
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation. If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline. If the character gains levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the draconic bloodline.
Dragon Disciple only affects, and is only affected by, sorcerer bloodlines. It does not require the bloodline from non-sorcerers, and it does not actually grant the bloodline itself, only the bloodline powers. Your Bloodrager bloodline is irrelevant to Dragon Disciple.Blood of Dragons
...If the dragon disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, he instead gains bloodline powers of the draconic bloodline, using his dragon disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained
That text was written before the Bloodrager existed, making it impossible to reference the class.
The ACG, however, does tie hybrid class features, including an explicit mention of the Bloodrager's bloodline, into the parent class.
FAQed.
This was brought up in the playtest, but there was there was complete silence on this as far as I know regarding the question. I'd love to play a draconic BloodRager/DD but as it stands now, meh.
Bumping
With the wording given, a FAQ is only needed if DD is intended to advance the bloodrager, as it is clear as of now the RAW answer is no. And honestly, there is no reason to go DD with bloodrager. Bloodrager(Draconic) is DD in a full-class form.
I would not say Bloodrager is DD in full-class, it is only the full-class version of sorceror's draconic bloodline.
There's no stat boost, no earlier access of wings and breathe attack, as well as Dragon's Bite.
i feel this is more of a FAQ for the Parent classes Clause and on how much exactly are the parent and child linked.
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I really hope this is answered.
It's a popular combo, and brings life into Pathfinder Prestige Classes, which, usually get the short end of the stick.
It clearly is.
Dragon Disciple is not from an obscure sourcebook. Crazy warrior Sorcerers were intended for the PRC. Paizo made a (crappy) Sorcerer Archetype in the new book to directly transfer to the DD class.
It is not an odd idea that someone would want their magical, raging Barbarian to be able to transform into a dragon.
"You all meet in a tavern. Some bloke asks you to retrieve his amulet. Suddenly, the bad thing happens and you go mental, and shapeshift into a red dragon and eat all the baddies."
PCs are meant to do that sort of nonsense.
Sort it out, Paizo.
BTW: I still think Paladin 2/Sorc 3/DD X is the best method
I really hope this is answered.
It's a popular combo, and brings life into Pathfinder Prestige Classes, which, usually get the short end of the stick.
It clearly is.
Dragon Disciple is not from an obscure sourcebook. Crazy warrior Sorcerers were intended for the PRC. Paizo made a (crappy) Sorcerer Archetype in the new book to directly transfer to the DD class.
It is not an odd idea that someone would want their magical, raging Barbarian to be able to transform into a dragon.
"You all meet in a tavern. Some bloke asks you to retrieve his amulet. Suddenly, the bad thing happens and you go mental, and shapeshift into a red dragon and eat all the baddies."
PCs are meant to do that sort of nonsense.
Sort it out, Paizo.
BTW: I still think Paladin 2/Sorc 3/DD X is the best method
Yeah, hope they get to this FAST! haha
And it's common sense the caster route is stronger, always. =D
I really hope that the answer comes out to be that it advances the bloodrager ability, I would really like some of the abilities for my blood rager. Stat bonuses are pretty great in this case. FAQ'd
Haha! If your playing PFS stay away, if its for a home game, well see below.
This was asked for in the play test, quite a bit from what I was following, so I expect Paizo intended for the combo not to work very well. They were well aware of the demand for this option.
This is actually a place where (to me at least) the rules aren't being ambiguous. The ACG is filled with ambiguity, but this actually seems clear to me.
Via RAW it works as follows:
1) You MUST be a draconic bloodrager.
2) It advances your sorcerer draconic bloodline.
Effectively, you get a lot of the same abilities twice. Not the way I wanted them to rule it but hey, I don't make the rules.
For a home I see 2 good choices if you or your GM agrees.
Option 1) Let the bloodrager go into it with any bloodline and it advances the sorcerer draconic bloodline. Pretty powerful but the loss of rage rounds really hurts. Alternatively you can have it continue to give 1 round rage/level, but I wouldn't if I choose this path.
Option 2) Only draconic bloodragers can take the PRC. It continues to advance the bloodrager draconic bloodline, and the bloodrager gets 1 round of rage/level.
Personally I'm doing 2. You gain HP's and strength, but loose BAB. Granting more rage in this situation doesn't hurt anything, cause remember the sorcerers bloodline is always on, the bloodragers on the other hand is only on when raging, so he needs the boost to balance it out. You loose caster levels (which is arguably worthless to the rager.
I think its a solid fix to something a LOT of people were asking about since the playtest.
A lot of this is like bringing up the "Ex Post Facto" law... but in reverse
The bloodlines where a nice twist for sorcerer when Pathfinder took of and became a staple after DD 3.5
There are things now that did not exist then so wording is not forward compatible. I think that if you have a bloodline, then it is a bloodline period, no distinction between the bloodrager and the sorcerer.
Some PRC require that you have the ability to cast arcane spells, but it does not specify if it is from wizards schools, sorerous insight, or bards performance... it is all arcane. The fact that the Drag Disc PRC came out before the Bloodrager should not stop it from being considered as having a bloodline.
I am in agreement with bleeding sun above and think that option 2 is the one that makes most sense and is what should be applied as a basis of how the PRC should interact with the bloodrager.
I was wondering if a FAQ had come out on this subject yet.
honestly, there is no reason to go DD with bloodrager. Bloodrager(Draconic) is DD in a full-class form.
Lets assume level 12 for pfs. Going BR5/DD7
Loss of greater bloodrage (+2str/con +1 will save free spell when begining a rage), 2 levels of spellcasting, 2 base attack, and damage reduction 2/-.
Gains +4 str/+2 Con all the time, bite attack while raging, +3 Natural armor, extra use of breath weapon, and Form of the Dragon.
It's a tradeoff, but hardly "no reason".
"Ask your GM" doesn't work with PFS. There needs to be an official ruling.
"Ask your GM" doesn't work with PFS. There needs to be an official ruling.
Well "officially" there's no overlap or stacking since it doesn't say there is. Hopefully in the ACG Errata it'll be cleared up. (I don't think it will)
Can't believe this was first asked almost 1 year ago already
this really needs to be allowed into PFS, i feel most home games like my own would allow it and for a bloodrager to continue to gain rage rounds as he levels. Hell thay can make it be for a bloodrager he has to take the dragon bloodline...IDK why it has not been addressed with so many questions out about this same issue. Maybe the fear is an massive wave of bloodragers/ Dragon Disciples flooding PFS. I know i would have my Nagaji bloodrager retrain right away for this if it gets allowed and i dont loose bloodrage rounds ^_^ i invite everyone to mark this thread as FAQ so it can be addressed soon...
Can't believe this was first asked almost 1 year ago already
It was asked even longer than that. When people first saw the bloodrager in the playtest people were asking about DD and bloodrager. And then when it wasn't addressed in the ACG or the ACGO we were quite confused. So either they can't make a ruling on it, they don't want to make a ruling on it, or their lack of clarification means that it works right now how it works, no synergy.