
marcryser |
I would like to build a 'real' sniper character for an upcoming game. I have built and used archers in several games who put out a lot of damage because they are taking a lot of shots. The concept here is stealth, shoot, stealth.
I need to pack a respectable (if not fantastic) amount of damage into a single shot each round.
Concept so far is gnome with swift as shadows alternate race trait with levels of fighter, ranger, and/or rogue. Fighter levels would (possibly) use the crossbowman archetype, ranger levels would use crossbow combat style, and rogue would (almost certainly) be sniper archetype.
I would like suggestions on feats, traits, etc that would help me approach the concept while still being a viable character.

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What level will you be able to start at? Starting level and wealth can change advise drastically as some builds don't come on line until later.
An example would be:
Tiefling Rogue (sniper archtype has some nice parts) (maybe mixed with crossbowman) with the feat Fiendish Darkness for extra darkness SLAs. Purchase Sniper Goggles and you can get SA from any distance.
The earliest this can come online is level 7 by normal wealth by level if you GM allows you to sink all your money in 1 item, otherwise level 9 by the general rule of no more than 1/2 your wealth on a single item.
Basic build idea is you pick a spot that is safe for you. Let your party move up with light sources to allow you to spot the enemy. Hunker down in your spot. If you are in a visible location use your darkness (which you can see through) and begin sniping. Since you should be considered to have concealment for all attacks this allows for using a bow. I know your concept was stealth shoot stealth but this gives your basic concept. This also allows the ability to not put all your eggs in 1 basket. Yes the xbow fighter allows for one big punch, but a miss is a miss. If you do a full attack with all getting SA you get a little less per hit but better odds.
So a build out would look like: Tiefling Rogue 7 Using Bows 20 Dex
Feats:
1. Point Blank
3. Precise Shot
5. Rapid Shot
7. Fiendish Darkness
Rogue Talent: Only one I would suggest is powerful sneak to up the output minimum a little. You might go with weapon focus bow for greater accuracy.
Trait: Blade of the society gives a +1 damage on SA
Unbuffed attack rolls would be MW/+1 shortbow +12 (14 while invis, +1 w/in 30ft, -2 rapid shot) vs flatfooted AC. With various buffs that can reasonably ratchet up fairly fast. Each hit is 5d6+1(trait)+X(enhancements +buffs) with 4d6 being min 2 on the rolls.
The level 9 build ups the weapon to a +3 weapon (adaptive if you have a str bonus), add Deadly Aim feat.

Zwordsman |
If your wanting Rogue, scout/sniper ( ithink they stack) is pretty fun after lv 8, with shot on the run. You can move full speed, fire once anywhere while moving, and gain your sneak attack damage on it.
You in theory (if you have say hide in plain sight) can turn that movement into a sneak roll as well. Maybe automatically drop prone at the end of the move, if you can afford the feat/talent to stand up as a free action
This allows you to move and from sneak spot to sneak spot and shot while moving. Or move and then shot, then move again.
It would lower your damage fro msneak attack but Shadow Dancer isn't a bad idea (except for the BAB damage) for the teleporting stuff and a shadow to guard your back while you focus ahead on sniping.
I might get bleeding attack too.. Sure it's easy to heal with a spell/magic healing, or a standard action (with a DC)-but that eats up an ability or spell, and deals damage, even past DR issues. or you could wing something near death and then snipe the next guy. Or tag everyone you can and then start focusing down
BAB/to hit is the issue with this one (and if crossbows the feats are problematic for the reload. Though you could try the repeater crossbow. but realistically the feat cost is the same (proficiency, or reload for a light. I'd just go with the reload and light). Cross bows are nicer for snipers since you can fire prone, which will aid with return fire at you, and hiding behind things and harder to see. Though you really need one of the "fast stand up" feat/talent things, otherwise it'll be hard to move back into stealth (as that is a move action)
If you dip the shadow dancer you get dark vision, so you could also pick up a wand of darkness and use that for concealment to fire from (though that would be horribly noticable in the day time. Though you could put the globe near you, and they'd pay more attention to that then you. or shoot them from a different angle so the shot passes through the globe

haruhiko88 |

Go human for the bonus feat, this is a must if you want to use a crossbow. If you want to use a heavy crossbow you will want to go 4 levels of fighter (or 3 ranger/1 fighter/the rest ranger) to ensure that you can reload that heavy crossbow very quickly. Necessary items are a set of bracers of falcons aim because a 19-20x3 crit range on a d10 weapon (2d8 with gravity bow, 2d10/4d8 with vital strike) is AMAZING. Improved Critical or a keen heavy crossbow will make it a 17-20 crit range. Max out your ranks in stealth, get a cloak of elvenkind, favored terrain etc. There you go, sniper.

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Why not Gunslinger?
If your GM is willing BBTs point is valid. Also it works well as a replacement to my earlier suggestion. Rapid reload puts the shots as many a round as you want. If you are a Tiefling rogue rifelman with sniper goggles you could be doing some mean hits...getting touch flatfooted AC within 80ft is not bad :).

Nightfiend |

I am currently working on a magus Myrmidarch. Started human I took point blank, precise shot. Dex is obviously prim stat, but well balanced stats help with arcane pool and added damage from strength on a compound bow. Concept is to add damage to the bow from your arcane pool. I dipped 2 levels of rogue sniper to open up skills and evasion. Will also eventual add a few levels of arcane archer to further enchant the arrows coming out of the bow. So using a magical composite long bow I’m currently looking at 1d8+2 from strength , +1 point blank, +1 enchantment from bow, +xd6 enchantment from bow, + xd6 elemental damage from arcane pool, + xd6 elemental damage from arcane archer arrow enchantment, and possibly 1d6 percision if target is flatfooted, then you can also imbue the shot with say scorching ray. I’m sure there is a lot more you can stack on top of that. I’m going to give this one a shot and see how it turns out.

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havoc xiii wrote:No one mentioned the Slayer.Only problem I see with slayer, is the fact it relies a lot on sneak damage. With everyone arguing about the fact that stealth doesn’t allow you to apply sneak damage, kind of makes that class a possible debate every game.
What? Slayer would do just fine if had no sneak attack damage at all. Studied Target is enough to make them viable, Sneak attack is just a nice bonus.

marcryser |
Neither the GM nor I like guns in fantasy. He may not allow it at all but certainly won't be supportive of it.
The adventure path that I will use this character in is Skulls and Shackles so I was planning on relying on the terrain of the ships/docks to aid in stealth (by making use of concealment and cover).
Also, my original post said gnome with swift as shadows trait... I meant Halfling.

Rerednaw |
Nightfiend wrote:What? Slayer would do just fine if had no sneak attack damage at all. Studied Target is enough to make them viable, Sneak attack is just a nice bonus.havoc xiii wrote:No one mentioned the Slayer.Only problem I see with slayer, is the fact it relies a lot on sneak damage. With everyone arguing about the fact that stealth doesn’t allow you to apply sneak damage, kind of makes that class a possible debate every game.
Exactly. Slayer, without sneak attack while not quite as good as a fighter in terms of raw damage is certainly more than good enough for a regular game. Plus you get all the extra skills and if you can get a sneak attack off, it is a perk. Just follow a regular Vital Strike ranged build and you'll do fine.

Kalvit |

Take one level in Hunter (as you now have access at level 1 to Gravity Bow), and then go straight Inquisitor. Inquisitor can add a lot of extra damage to your shots, and with a Distance enchant on your crossbow/longbow, you can deal that damage at ludicrous distance. Gravity Bow on top of that is better.
Also, Inquisitors can use Invisibility. Since you want to snipe and stealth, this should work perfectly.

Arturius Fischer |
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He doesn't need to be supportive of it, it's fairly self-sufficient since you get the weapons as part of the class abilities.
If neither he nor you like that idea, see if you can convince him to allow the class but to change its specializations towards Crossbows instead of Firearms. Tell him you won't get the 'touch attack within the first range increment' bit and will accept the '1 is a misfire' rule anyway. That should be more than enough to push him over the edge. (Note that this doesn't completely screw you--Crossbows have a higher threat range than Guns and thus can get you more Grit back faster.) Try and get the Pistolero and Musketeer Archetypes to apply to the Hand Crossbow and the Heavy Crossbow respectively (So you can be close-range bursty with the former and heavy-hitting long distance with the latter--which is obviously what you are going to snipe with).
As to the complaints about 'stealth sniping' being a poor option, the way I see it is this... there are two kinds of combat: The optimizied, everyone-does-everything-exactly-right kind (you know, where everyone uses every action to its fullest, gets high rolls, flanks, and otherwise magically has perfect tactics) that lasts 3-4 rounds and the multiple-bungled moves with crappy rolls now and then kind (aka: everything else) that lasts longer. The former exists only in optimization boards or among gaming groups where everyone has been playing for eons. The latter exists everywhere else.
I'm going to tell you it's possible in both games, but a LOT more effective in the latter one. You see, even in 'tweaked' games, you should have maxed Perception and Stealth, both of which work great with your class and its focus on Dex/Wis. It's not too hard to sneak up on foes, get a surprise round, tag some poor schmo with a Vital Strike+Deadly Aim shot for 2D10+8 or more for the first attack and then beat the enemies on the initiative to get another full round worth of attacks against flat-footed foes (attack penalty? Psssh, easy against no-Dex). Stealth Sniping isn't just going into Hide Mode every other round, it's also starting the fight with a huge advantage, which you will. This works well in both sets of games, the only difference is that in the latter you CAN actually re-Stealth, move, and attack from hidden again later in the battle. You will just have to pick your targets carefully and decide which ones need to be dropped early, be sure to provide yourself with cover/concealment, make sure the enemy's path to you is impeded by difficult terrain... you know, kind of like an actual sniper.
If your DM won't let you do this, though, then follow the above posts. Slayer is your next best choice by far, and you may want to get in it anyway after either 5th or 7th in Crossbowslinger.

Zwordsman |
If you go with scout and sneak attacks with ranged.
(note I think alternative classes can take archetypes that still have things that can be replaced right?) You can be a Scout Ninja right? Thought there.
There is a weapon property that might help with the ranged i guess. At the least further than average moving speed
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Sniping

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If you took 10 levels of rogue, you could take:
"Stealthy Sniper (Ex): When a rogue with this talent uses the Stealth skill to snipe, she only suffers a –10 penalty on the Stealth check, instead of –20."
...which stacks with Swift as Shadows.
You could also take Improved Eldritch Heritage to get Shadow Well.