What is the best Fighter / Wizard concept that works fine?

[Haco]

Hi all,

My first character in AD&D was Gilthanas Kanan in a Dragonlance adventure. And i can't forget the fighter/wizard from AD&D and is my favourite "class" when i don't play a Dwarf...

But in Pathfinder with a great amount of possibilities, archetypes, etc i don't know what is the best class for a fighter/wizard:

-Magus?
- Fighter x/sorcerer x
- Fighter x/Wizard x
- etc, etc

Can you help me to create a good balanced fighter/wizard (not only these classes, fighter/wizard is the concept or eldritch knight)

Thanks for all!!

[Dave Justus]

It depends on what you want the character to feel like. If you want someone who can cast spells or fight well, eldritch knight. If you want to use magic while fighting, delivering magical attacks with the blade of your sword Magus.

Both are mechanically pretty strong options with plenty of love.

Here is a Guide to Eldritch Knight

[Zilfrel Findadur]

Personally i will go with Magus, it is AWESOMESAUCE!

My avatar is actually my magus pc, and one of my most loved pcs.

a dervish build is always awesome, since you can get rid of that boring strength and focus on what really gives you money. Dexterity!

i would go Kensai, which lets you have a decent AC without armor, and save you a lot of weight, since you won't have a lot of strength that comes handy.

[Haco]

Can you link me an advice of magus with dervish build?

And you Dave can post and advice od Eldrithc Knight level per level?

Thanks to all!!

[Zilfrel Findadur]

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?cid=BE45A5E31B322825&resid=BE45A5E3 1B322825%21296&app=WordPdf&authkey=%21AAVhtc9jjDglhno --> eldritch knight

i didn't found the kensai, i just created one but erased it accidentaly xD im out of time atm, maybe on the morrow :D

cheers and thanks to Ravindorf for his character.

Edit: this thread might help you, it contains a guide to Kensai.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qnji?The-Comprehensive-Kensai-Magus-Guide

[Suichimo]

It depends on what you want. Do you want 4 attacks per full attack and 9th level spells? Or do you want the ability to attack and use a spell at the same time?

If you want the first, you want a race with a Spell Like Ability that counts as a 3rd level spell(Aasimar is a good choice) or a class ability that does the same(Scrying subschooled Wizards is the premier option here). From there, you need to decide if you want to be Int or Cha based. If Int, obviously you'll want Wizard 1. For Cha, it'll be Sorceror 1. As a Wizard, if you already meet the SLA requirement from your race, you want to be a Teleportation Wizard as this gets you the very handy ability to teleport 5' 3+INT times per day.

Basically any Melee class will work for your second level. I prefer Gunslinger, myself.

Congratulations, you are now at 3rd level and are qualified to take the Eldritch Knight Prestige Class. Take it for the next ten levels. Hopefully you have the Magical Knack trait to completely negate any caster level loss you would have suffered.

From level 13 onward... Do you have access to 3.5 material? If not, you're going to lose some of your stuff.

The build works out to Wizard or Sorceror 1/Melee class 1/Eldritch Knight 10/X 8

[Athaleon]

The usual choice for after Eldritch Knight is the Hellknight Signifer. 3/4 BAB and full casting progression, with a few decent class features.

[Domestichauscat]

Magus10/eldritch knight 10 is my favorite. You get to have a good boost from the full base attack bonus from the eldritch knight that the magus lacks

[Suichimo]

Domestichauscat wrote:

Magus10/eldritch knight 10 is my favorite. You get to have a good boost from the full base attack bonus from the eldritch knight that the magus lacks

The boost you get to your BAB from this is not worth anywhere near what you'd be trading off though.

[Lastoth]

Well, I think the magus hands down works best for melee builds. The old 1wiz/1fighter/10ek/xAA/xwiz still comes out to be probably the most versatile and powerful character you can play in most situations. A wizard might argue that point, but then he'd take an anti magic shell to the knee.

It's pretty much between those two, and each only does their specialty (melee for magus and archery for the EK) well.

[Haco]

Can any post or link examples of the class or classes that he/she believe the best choice?

I read the guide that you say @Dave Justus, but many words but no examples of character.

[Wasum]

Seriously?

[Zilfrel Findadur]

ok here we go, to start.

Elf Kensai level 1

Str 10 Dex 18 Con 10 Int 18 Wis 10 Cha 8

AC 16 (+1 armor from haramaki, +1 int to AC, +4 Dex)
Fort: 2 Ref: 4 Will: 2
traits: Magic Lineage: Shocking Grasp.
Feat: Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus
Attack: Scimitar +5, 1d6 dmg, 18-20/x2

Progression to a very Straightforward Magus:

lvl 3: Dervish Dance, Arcane Accuracy
lvl 5: Combat Reflexes, Improved Initative
lvl 6: Empowered magic,
lvl 7: Intensify spell.
lvl 9: Critical Focus.
lvl 11: Improved Critical, Bleeding Critical.
lvl 12: Maximized Magic.
lvl 13: Lunge
lvl 15: Quickened Magic

Pretty much this would be an example.
You would be using a lot of Blur, Mirror Images, Intensified Maximized Shocking Grasp or Empowered. True Strike. Vampiric Touch. Color Spray might be a good idea early. once i killed a beholder with one crit of an empowered intensified shocking grasp, lvl 7-8 it's very satisfying :} trust me.

Later you want to buy magic items mentioned in the guide, and there you go, it's very fun to play.

at the end your dex doesn't have limits to AC, so put all stats to DEX.

[Wasum]

prd wrote:

Canny Defense (Ex)

When wearing light or no armor and not using a shield, a duelist adds 1 point of Intelligence bonus (if any) per duelist class level as a dodge bonus to her Armor Class while wielding a melee weapon. If a duelist is caught flat-footed or otherwise denied her Dexterity bonus, she also loses this bonus.

[Zilfrel Findadur]

Wasum wrote:

prd wrote:

Canny Defense (Ex)

When wearing light or no armor and not using a shield, a duelist adds 1 point of Intelligence bonus (if any) per duelist class level as a dodge bonus to her Armor Class while wielding a melee weapon. If a duelist is caught flat-footed or otherwise denied her Dexterity bonus, she also loses this bonus.

ok still is awesome. and level 4 will have more AC than most. it can always get uncanny dodge via shadowdancer.

[Haco]

Zilfrel Findadur wrote:

ok here we go, to start.

Elf Kensai level 1

Str 10 Dex 18 Con 10 Int 18 Wis 10 Cha 8

AC 16 (+1 armor from haramaki, +1 int to AC, +4 Dex)
Fort: 2 Ref: 4 Will: 2
traits: Magic Lineage: Shocking Grasp.
Feat: Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus
Attack: Scimitar +5, 1d6 dmg, 18-20/x2

Progression to a very Straightforward Magus:

lvl 3: Dervish Dance, Arcane Accuracy
lvl 5: Combat Reflexes, Improved Initative
lvl 6: Empowered magic,
lvl 7: Intensify spell.
lvl 9: Critical Focus.
lvl 11: Improved Critical, Bleeding Critical.
lvl 12: Maximized Magic.
lvl 13: Lunge
lvl 15: Quickened Magic

Pretty much this would be an example.
You would be using a lot of Blur, Mirror Images, Intensified Maximized Shocking Grasp or Empowered. True Strike. Vampiric Touch. Color Spray might be a good idea early. once i killed a beholder with one crit of an empowered intensified shocking grasp, lvl 7-8 it's very satisfying :} trust me.

Later you want to buy magic items mentioned in the guide, and there you go, it's very fun to play.

at the end your dex doesn't have limits to AC, so put all stats to DEX.

Ok you listed the feats and level one but i rise ever of kensai class or i mullticlassing with others?

Can you write the build of your magus i haven't acces with the link in your second post!!

[bold]Please more builds to try!!![bold/]

[Wasum]

Why dont you just take 15 minutes and make up just right the build you want to have?

[Lastoth]

If you read the guides you will find what you're looking for.

[TheSideKick]

The most powerful character in all of pathfinder is an Archer EK.

Trapper ranger 1/wizard 5 /eldritch knight 4/arcane archer 2/eldritch knight 6/arcane archer 2.

17 bab, 9th level spells, complete flexibility and able to over come just about any situation presented. You can be the rogue, the skill monkey, the face, and even the front liner of you focus on transmutation or conjuration (to summon meat shields). Best character I've ever built, and the most powerful I've ever played by a wide margin.

[Haco]

TheSideKick wrote:

The most powerful character in all of pathfinder is an Archer EK.

Trapper ranger 1/wizard 5 /eldritch knight 4/arcane archer 2/eldritch knight 6/arcane archer 2.

17 bab, 9th level spells, complete flexibility and able to over come just about any situation presented. You can be the rogue, the skill monkey, the face, and even the front liner of you focus on transmutation or conjuration (to summon meat shields). Best character I've ever built, and the most powerful I've ever played by a wide margin.

Can you link or writte a build level per level with stats, race and all that you have?

I read on eor two guides of this theme and every guide say that the better is the class explained in the guide. I want that someone with experience in this kind of characters show us his/her build/builds.

Thanks to all!!

[Wasum]

....

[Suichimo]

Haco wrote:

Ok you listed the feats and level one but i rise ever of kensai class or i mullticlassing with others?

Can you write the build of your magus i haven't acces with the link in your second post!!

[bold]Please more builds to try!!![/bold]

If you're going the Magus route, you're taking Magus all the way to 20. Kensai is an archetype of the Magus, so you're not multiclassing in this build at all.

As for multiclassed builds, it really depends on what material you have to work with and if this is PFS or not.

I have 3.5 material available to me so my build is currently Mystic Life Samsaran Teleportation Wizard 3/Gunslinger 1 and will be going into Knight Phantom 10 when I hit the next level.

Edit: No double posting for me:

Haco wrote:

TheSideKick wrote:

The most powerful character in all of pathfinder is an Archer EK.

Trapper ranger 1/wizard 5 /eldritch knight 4/arcane archer 2/eldritch knight 6/arcane archer 2.

17 bab, 9th level spells, complete flexibility and able to over come just about any situation presented. You can be the rogue, the skill monkey, the face, and even the front liner of you focus on transmutation or conjuration (to summon meat shields). Best character I've ever built, and the most powerful I've ever played by a wide margin.

Can you link or writte a build level per level with stats, race and all that you have?

I read on eor two guides of this theme and every guide say that the better is the class explained in the guide. I want that someone with experience in this kind of characters show us his/her build/builds.

Thanks to all!!

That IS the build. You have almost complete freedom to do whatever you want with your feats. May I suggest, if you have a high enough Charisma, to take the Eldritch Heritage/Improved Eldritch Heritage/Greater Eldritch Heritage(Orc) line of feats? This will get you +6 to Strength and a nifty, improved version of Enlarge Person. If your DM is more lenient and open, you can take those same three feats again and get +6 to Constitution. That certainly will allow a huge savings over a Belt of Physical Perfection +6.

[Zilfrel Findadur]

TheSideKick wrote:

The most powerful character in all of pathfinder is an Archer EK.

Trapper ranger 1/wizard 5 /eldritch knight 4/arcane archer 2/eldritch knight 6/arcane archer 2.

17 bab, 9th level spells, complete flexibility and able to over come just about any situation presented. You can be the rogue, the skill monkey, the face, and even the front liner of you focus on transmutation or conjuration (to summon meat shields). Best character I've ever built, and the most powerful I've ever played by a wide margin.

I like this, i like this a lot.

[Lastoth]

you dont need to take wizard to 5 anymore, that's the biggest weak point of the old EK build was the BAB dead zone between 2 and 6. Just qualify with the SLA from your race or from divination/scryer and you're golden for EK entry at 3rd.

[Haco]

@Zilfrel your build has a great mistake, Scimitar is no a finessable weapon, it is not light and not in the list of weapon finesse feat, even with Dervish Dance that only transform the scimitar ina piercing weapon (only good for duelists not for all).

Why Trapper ranger archetype this archetype don't gives anything good for a fighter/wizard concept.

I like more a melee fighter than a ranged figher for the build, kensai is very nice concept of fighter/wizard (magus) concept. I need study the weapon selection for the Kensai and this build.

Thx for help!!

[Zilfrel Findadur]

Haco wrote:

@Zilfrel your build has a great mistake, Scimitar is no a finessable weapon, it is not light and not in the list of weapon finesse feat, even with Dervish Dance that only transform the scimitar ina piercing weapon (only good for duelists not for all).

Why Trapper ranger archetype this archetype don't gives anything good for a fighter/wizard concept.

I like more a melee fighter than a ranged figher for the build, kensai is very nice concept of fighter/wizard (magus) concept. I need study the weapon selection for the Kensai and this build.

Thx for help!!

ok i will ask you something dude, do you really think that a feat like dervish dance will allow you to apply dex to damage to a not fineassable weapon, and have weapon finesse as a required feat, and still not give the benefits also to the scimitar?

Anyways when you take Dervish dance, it becomes a finesse weapon i have looked almost everywhere and it is legit. in lvl 1 i'm afraid you will not be hitting so much. i will link the main discussion.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mjgp?Scimitar-A-weapon-of-Finesse-or-not

Whatever, you can save for a +1 Agile Wakisazhi and apply dex to damage without dervish dance, and you save 1 feat, but i just like scimitars.

[Athaleon]

Dervish Dance plainly says it allows you to use Dex for both attack and damage rolls.

[Haco]

Mmmm maybe but there is not any FAQ where officially the scimitar be a finessable weapon...reading the feats not allowed to use scimitar as a finessable weapon if James Jacobs wants this he needs writte somewhere.

I see a kensai/bladebound archetypes runs fine, and a bit jedi savour (the best fighter/wizard character of the world!), and i am thinking multiclassing a kensai/bladebound with sword saint samurai archetype and then EK. What do you think about this? I think that i need create another thread to ask this, what do you think about?

[Suichimo]

Haco wrote:

Mmmm maybe but there is not any FAQ where officially the scimitar be a finessable weapon...reading the feats not allowed to use scimitar as a finessable weapon if James Jacobs wants this he needs writte somewhere.

I see a kensai/bladebound archetypes runs fine, and a bit jedi savour (the best fighter/wizard character of the world!), and i am thinking multiclassing a kensai/bladebound with sword saint samurai archetype and then EK. What do you think about this? I think that i need create another thread to ask this, what do you think about?

As I said above, the Magus has no reason to multiclass/prestige out of itself. Getting 4 attacks per turn is not worth giving up your class abilities from 11-20.

If you want Eldritch Knight, you don't want Magus. It is that simple.

[Haco]

Ok @Suichimo but what do you think about Kensai/bladebound/Sword saint build? Can you help me with stats and race? You see that i don't say Ek now!!

Do you think that magus is best than EK for the fighter/wizard concept?

Thanks for your help.

[Suichimo]

Haco wrote:

Ok @Suichimo but what do you think about Kensai/bladebound/Sword saint build? Can you help me with stats and race? You see that i don't say Ek now!!

Do you think that magus is best than EK for the fighter/wizard concept?

Thanks for your help.

I honestly don't see what dipping into Samurai for access to Sword Saint would give the build over all?

Default answer to race is Human. Unfortunately there are no races that come with both Str and Int bonuses, unless you want to dip into third party material.

For stats, you want to prioritize your Strength and Intelligence. I would probably focus more on Strength as you're not a 9th level caster, but someone who is more adept at me than this may say otherwise. Next you want a good Con and Dex, you're going to be in Melee, especially if you're Bladebound. Wisdom comes next, failing Will saves sucks balls.

Do I think Magus is the better EK? It depends on what you want to do. If you want to attack your enemies while channeling fireballs and lightning bolts through your sword, you want the Magus. If you want to be able to do all the Wizardy things a Wizard can do, and still be able to lead the frontlines in to battle, you want a Wizard 1/Melee 1/Eldritch Knight 10.

Personally, I enjoy the second one more.

[Haco]

But i need more levels in wizard to be a EK.

Samurai was only for more flavour but i can let it!!

[Wasum]

Due to SLA-FAQ you dont. All you need is an apropriate SLA

[Some Random Dood]

The 2 methods I know of to skip that requirement for EK are

1. Be a base aasimar (no variant heritages). Their daylight SLA counts for early entry into EK.
2. The divination/scryer sub school gives a SLA that counts for early entry into EK.

[Haco]

Mmmm is a bit "illegal", if you accept this any caster can cast a level 3 spell with a scroll, then the prerequisite says "spells" not spell, or spell like ability...

I rise until wizard 5 is more legally.

[Athaleon]

It is fully legal and in the FAQ. Spell Like Abilities count as spellcasting for feat and class prerequisites. Yes, even if you only have one.

[Haco]

Can you link me the FAQ?

Or say me where can i read that SPell like ability can be used as a prerequisite for an EK?

The prereq says "spells" not spell. A level 5 wizard has one slot of level 3 spells, but he can learn more than one. This spell like allows you to cast this spell but use it as a prerequisite for a prestige class i don't think that be legal, i as a gm i don't permit this. Prestige classe are for level 6 or more.

[Suichimo]

Da Rules wrote:

Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?

Yes.
For example, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat.

Edit 7/12/13: The design team is aware that the above answer means that certain races can gain access to some spellcaster prestige classes earlier than the default minimum (character level 6). Given that prestige classes are usually a sub-optimal character choice (especially for spellcasters), the design team is allowing this FAQ ruling for prestige classes. If there is in-play evidence that this ruling is creating characters that are too powerful, the design team may revisit whether or not to allow spell-like abilities to count for prestige class requirements.

This can be found http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qow

So yes, if you can get a Spell Like Ability that counts as a third level spell, you meet the spellcasting requirements. Technically, you could go into Eldritch Knight as a 1st level Fighter if you wanted, though it would be a horrible decision at that point.

[Dragonchess Player]

TheSideKick wrote:

The most powerful character in all of pathfinder is an Archer EK.

Trapper ranger 1/wizard 5 /eldritch knight 4/arcane archer 2/eldritch knight 6/arcane archer 2.

17 bab, 9th level spells, complete flexibility and able to over come just about any situation presented. You can be the rogue, the skill monkey, the face, and even the front liner of you focus on transmutation or conjuration (to summon meat shields). Best character I've ever built, and the most powerful I've ever played by a wide margin.

I prefer (fighter or ranger)* 1/(witch or wizard) 6/eldritch knight 2/arcane archer 3/eldritch knight +8 for better slightly better saves (6th level witch or wizard gives +1 to all saves) and earlier access to Imbue Arrow. Seeker Arrow 1x/day isn't really a "must have" for me.

A rough progression to qualify for arcane archer below. Feat order and additional choices will depend on concept, race options, and specific abilities you desire from the character.

Trait: Magical Knack (Wizard)
(F/R) 1- Point Blank Shot (+ bonus if fighter)
Wiz 2- Arcane Armor Training (retrain to Quicken Spell on gaining 5th level spell slots; concentrate on true strike or other spells without somatic components at (fighter or ranger) 1/wizard 1)
Wiz 4- Precise Shot
Wiz 5- item creation (Craft Magic Arms and Armor is a good choice) or metamagic (Widen Spell will get a lot of use with Imbue Arrow)
EK 1- Weapon Focus (Longbow), + feat
AA 1- feat

*- Fighter for the extra feat, ranger for the ability to use wands of cure light wounds, etc. without Use Magic Device checks.

A more melee focused option would be (barbarian 2 or paladin 3)/sorcerer (4 or 3)/dragon disciple 4/eldritch knight 10. +17 BAB and 8th level spells, but +4 Str, natural attacks, and +3 natural armor. You can even go (fighter or ranger) 1/bard 1/(witch or wizard) 4/dragon disciple 4/eldritch knight 10 for +16 BAB and 8th level spells, but with the ability to learn any spell on your list.

[Trogdar]

Dude, these people are not lying to you. You want help with your build but don't listen to advice...?

[Lastoth]

Haco seems help resistant, and also Google-resistant. At some point Haco you're going to have to put this all together yourself and find the answers for yourself.

[Haco]

Sorry to all i wanna be 100% legal in my builds. Thanks for all the advice. I start another thread with the jedi build Sword saint/kensai/bladebound, if i can have 3 archetypes!!!

Thanks for the advices people now i know the powerful magus /kensai, and the EK class (i like more for a fighter/wizard) and i have a reason to make an aasimar character!!

[Haco]

I will try the aasimar Wizard 1/ Fighter 1 /EK 10

Can you help me with the build?

My stats are 16 str 13 dex 13 con 16 int 10 wis 9 cha

I start the character as a wizard for Arcane Strike feat or fighter for more HP and 2 feats, armor proficiency and weapon proficiencies?

Any archetype that can help me with the build? Maybe Unbreakable for Endurance and Die Hard feats, or Ustalavic Duelist for Duelist Stance?

What feats are good for a level 1 aasimar fighter that before rise as a wizard and EK? Dodge, combat expertise?

Thanks for your help!! Remember that is PFS!!

[SpiritWolfFenris]

Seriously... You should consider trying to build a character yourself. That's half the fun in tabletop. Least, a few people I know and myself seem to think so. Also it helps teach you how certain things work and gives you bonus knowledge towards any future creations.

[Nephril]

here is something that i did a while back.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ofol?Powergaming-chars-preferably-without-weak ness#48

here it is reposted too

1- paladin
2- paladin
this starts us out with some great saves and a few nice abilities to keep us alive (LoH, d10 hd, can use wands of CLW)
3-summoner
4-summoner
5-summoner
6-summoner
this starts us into our casting class working for more power and gives us an eidolon that we use as a mount so we get a +2 shield bonus and +2 to all our saves yeah!!
7-dragon disciple
8-dragon disciple
9-dragon disciple
10- dragon disciple
this gets us our 7th level of summoner spells which means we can now cast 3rd level summoner spells which is full of good buffs and utility. also the +4 strength and +2 natural armor and your pick of a bloodline power is nice. this also qualifies us for eldritch knight at 11th level
11- Eldritch knight and up we go
You end up with the top level spells at 18th level.
a bab of 18, +4 strength,
4d8, 12d10 and 4d12 hit dice DAMN
a 3 hit dice little pet that you can craft into a mount or a scout or a meat shield.

[Haco]

SpiritWolfFenris wrote:

Seriously... You should consider trying to build a character yourself. That's half the fun in tabletop. Least, a few people I know and myself seem to think so. Also it helps teach you how certain things work and gives you bonus knowledge towards any future creations.

I created an amount of characters as any of us in my roleplaying life. But I want to see some builds an ideas to select my own character, I only want options for create a better character!! This is the Advice forum I think that this is the correct place to demmand this.

@Nephril thx for your build, but I looking for a fighter/wizard concept and summoner this is not my idea of wizard althought him has many good abilities and can wear light armor without penalty. And a dragon disciple focused in natural attacks and I want melee attacks with blade.

Thanks to all!!

[SpiritWolfFenris]

Haco wrote:

SpiritWolfFenris wrote:

Seriously... You should consider trying to build a character yourself. That's half the fun in tabletop. Least, a few people I know and myself seem to think so. Also it helps teach you how certain things work and gives you bonus knowledge towards any future creations.

I created an amount of characters as any of us in my roleplaying life. But I want to see some builds an ideas to select my own character, I only want options for create a better character!! This is the Advice forum I think that this is the correct place to demmand this.

Thanks to all!!

I get that, I really do.. But you've gone from advice-seeking to 'make my character for me.' At least that's how it has started to come off in your posts. It may be unintentional, but just letting you know that's how it seems.

[Zilfrel Findadur]

It's funny but i have to agree.
also Haco, people have been doing magus dervish builds for eons already, you can't just say it is not legit now, it is. i wouldn't really go strengh as a magus, unless it is a hexblade frostbite build, which is also nice.

[Haco]

Zilfrel Findadur wrote:

It's funny but i have to agree.

also Haco, people have been doing magus dervish builds for eons already, you can't just say it is not legit now, it is. i wouldn't really go strengh as a magus, unless it is a hexblade frostbite build, which is also nice.

You have reason but finally i decided wiz/fighter 1 Eldritch knight this is teh reason for the strength.

For the magus i decided a jedi flavour build in other thread in this forum too.

Do you think is best start as a wizard or fighter?

[Some Random Dood]

Wizard can be rather boring at first, since you would have so few spells a day. Where as with a fighter, you can always attack with your weapon.