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Okay, so I was inspired to this by a thread involving building a party without any 6/9 level casters at all. However, coming across this possibility seems interesting even outside of that context.
So, why is this build viable. First, the Sensei gets Inspire Courage, Competence and Greatness as a bard of his level, except he has rounds per day only equal to his level + his wisdom modifier. (We'll consider Lingering Performance for that reason)
Second, the Sensei allows you to apply your ki abilities to other members of your party. At level 12, he can apply those abilities to all allies within 30 feet by spending the requisite ki. So, for example, he can apply 'barkskin' or 'true strike' (gained through Qinggong monk) or 'see invisibility' (from Contemplative) to all allies within 30 feet by spending a ki. He can also do this with the amazing Ki Mystic ability to allow allies to re-roll saves, so that all allies within 30 feet can re-roll their save against something.
Third, by taking Breadth of Knowledge and Deific Obedience for Irori, in combination with the Ki Mystic +2 to knowledge, he can put a single rank in any knowledge skill to get a 12+INT bonus on it. So, he's got knowledge for the party covered.
Fourth, he has a BOATLOAD of ki. This is where the Contemplative is important, since he can effectively grant himself extra ki equal to half his class level each day. So, total ki will be 1/2 monk level + 1/2 monk level (not the same as full monk level, because each is rounded down) + 2 (Ki Mystic) + WIS modifier.
THINGS I'D LIKE HELP ON:
1) For stats, I'm thinking Str 14 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 12 Wis 17 Cha 5 (20 pt., after racial adjustments. For 25pt, boost Int to 14 and Cha to 6). All stat points into wisdom. Comments? Remember that due to Sensei he uses Wisdom for CMB/attack rolls, but not damage (he'll later get the Guided property, though)
2) He's almost certainly going to take the Wisdom in the Flesh trait, letting him use Wisdom for any dex/str skill, and making it a class skill. What's the best skill to use this for? I'm thinking disable device if the party doesn't otherwise have that covered. But, if they do, then what?
3) What's the best weapon to select proficiency for from the Contemplative's Spurn Tradition ability? It has to be a martial weapon with the monk property. I'm currently thinking Sansetsukon {2 handed, 1d10, 19-20/x2, B. Blocking, Disarm, Monk}
4) Per the rules, can his monk SLAs qualify him for Crafting feats? If so, what's the best trait to get Spellcraft as a class skill? I'm aware of classically schooled, but are there other options? (This would be especially relevant in the no-6/9-casters challenge)
5) I was contemplating at character level 13 dipping into Pathfinder Field Agent to get a Rogue Talent: Ki Pool, which would add half my wisdom modifier as extra ki (at that point, it would be 4 more ki). Are there any other ways to get a Rogue Talent with a 1 level dip? Is this worth considering? Does this guy already have enough ki?
6) Any general ways to make this guy have something to do in combat, after he's buffed everyone? I'm thinking of letting him specialize in a combat maneuver, but not sure if it's worth it. With the dwarf alternate monk favored class bonus, he could be VERY good at sundering, though.
7) Besides a badly desired Ring of Ki Mastery and a WIS booster, is there anything this character really needs, item wise?
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One weakness of the Contemplative is that you cannot use the Ki Point you grant yourself with Awaken Divinity except to activate Standard Action Qinggong ki powers.
At 1st level, as a standard action, a Contemplative can touch a creature to grant it a temporary ki point until the beginning of the Contemplative's next turn. In addition to any other ways in which the target can use ki, it can expend the ki point as a swift action in order to either gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round or increase its base speed by 20 feet for 1 round. The Contemplative can target himself with this ability as a swift action, but doing so costs 2 uses of the ability.
The Ki point you grant yourself only lasts until the beginning of your next turn, and most ki powers use Swift Actions to activate.
There are two ways to interpret that. In the stricter method, you are correct, but that still lets him use that ki for things like the 'barkskin', 'true strike', 'restoration' or 'see invisibility'. (Any of which he can apply to another party member at 6th, or ALL party members at 12th)
But I think there is an alternate RAW way to interpret it. In other contexts, things that let you 'touch' another creature can also be used to target yourself. In that interpretation, he can do it to himself as a standard action with only one use, and it only costs 2 uses if he wants to make it a swift action to use.
I'm truly and honestly not certain which interpretation is the intended one, but the second one is perfectly reasonable, as there's nothing in the flavor that would make it seem that he would be better at granting ki to others than to himself.
If the second interpretation is the correct one, then this guy has above and beyond enough ki (monk level + 1/2 monk level + 2 + wisdom modifier), and so definitely won't need that dip for the Rogue Talent.
Member of my group did something similar. It was SICK awesome.
Any techniques in particular come to mind?
My current thinking is to trade out slow fall and high jump for barkskin and true strike at levels 4 and 5. At level 7, the contemplative gets its own 'see invisibility' ki ability. At level 12, I would trade abundant step for 'restoration'. This gives 'barkskin', 'true strike', 'see invisibility' and 'restoration' as the spells that can be applied to all allies as a standard action.
I'd probably trade Quivering Palm at 15 to get Diamond Soul back, especially in the no 6/9 casters party. Then Tongue of the Sun and the Moon and Timeless Body could be traded out as well, for various options. In the no casters party, I'd probably grab 'shadow walk' at this point, to handle long distance travel. Otherwise, whichever.
Okay, so below is my more detailed outline for the "pure support" version of this guy; this is the one I would use in the party with no 6/9 casters. He handles all the item crafting for the party (I'm assuming that the monk caster level for SLAs *does* qualify you for the crafting feats), as well as most of the knowledge (he's good at the all the knowledges, but a character who maxes one knowledge will eventually oustrip him). He doesn't do traps, though he could be re-arranged to do so with Wisdom in the Flesh trait. In combat, he does his bardic music equivalent, uses his ki-based spells to boost the whole party, and can use wands (Not until 7th level, and not with 100% reliability until 10th level or so). He can be semi-effective at melee-combat until lower mid levels. At higher levels, he's largely useless at direct damage dealing.
Dwarf
Racial Bonuses: +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha
Hardy: +2 v. poison, spells, spell-like abilities
Stability: +4 CMD v. bull rush or trip when standing on ground.
Darkvision 60
(Other Racial Abilities are replaced by Contemplative Monk archetype)
Str 12 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 17 Cha 5 (after racial adjustments)
Traits (Second two come with the Extra Traits feat):
Faith: Spell Intuition (+1 Spellcraft, Spellcraft is a class skill)
Region/Race: Glory of Old: +1 to saves against poison, spells, spell-like abilities. (bring the Hardy bonus to +3 total)
Social: Clever Wordplay (Use intelligence bonus for UMD)
Magic: Spark of Creation (+1 to all craft skills; reduce item creation cost by 5%)
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (all), Linguistics, Perception, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Stealth, and Swim.
General skill point distribution:
* Max Perception. Max Spellcraft, in order to craft items.
* One point in all knowledge skills ASAP; will get +3 trained bonus, +2 to all from Ki Mystic (3rd), +4 from Deific Obedience (3rd), +2 from Breadth of Knowledge (13th), +2 from int (increasing with headband later). More points in needed knowledge skills later on, when intelligence boosting items come around for more skill points.
* Have UMD maxed by level 7 (won't be able to use it before then, since we don't have the trait to use INT in place of CHA until level 7). Since he won't need it until level 7, this skill is a good candidate for skill ranks for his WIS/INT headband he will craft himself.
* Keep Acrobatics up.
* Rest depends on what the party needs. Sense Motive and Stealth are strong contenders. He obviously won't be the face, though. Maybe one rank in Diplomacy, just so his modifier is positive. :)
Important Equipment:
* Cracked Magenta Prism (+2 competence bonus to any skill, can be changed once a day). Uses this for Spellcraft when crafting, and UMD when not crafting.
* Ring of Ki Mastery is critical, as it brings the 2 ki costs of several abilities down to 1. Can craft it himself at 11th, if not acquired earlier
* Mossy Ioun Stones: Cheap to craft for a +5 bonus to needed knowledges.
* Big 6 stuff. Though, weapons not very important, except getting the guided property.
* Boots of striding, or equivalent. He doesn't have monk speed, so he's slow.
1: Bonus Feat: Deflect Arrows, Unarmed Strike, Advice, Awaken Divinity, Spurn Tradition (Proficiency: Sansetsukon), 1st feat: Lingering Performance
2: Insightful Strike (Use WIS for attack rolls)
3: Maneuver Training, Ki Mystic, 3rd level feat: Deific Obedience (Irori)
4: Ki Pool, 'barkskin' SLA, Monk AC
5: 'true strike' SLA, Mystic Insight, 5th level feat: Craft Wondrous Item
6: Mystic Wisdom
7: 'see invisibility' SLA, Feat: Extra Traits
8:
9: Feat: Craft Magic Arms and Armor
10: Bonus Monk Feat: ?????No Idea. Dodge? Nothing great.
11: Mystic Visions, Feat: Forge Ring
12: 'restoration' SLA, Mystic Wisdom Upgrade
13: Mystic Prescience +2, Feat: Breadth of Experience
14:
15: Diamond Soul, Feat: ?????Kirin Style???
16:
17: 'shadow walk' SLA, Feat: ?????Kirin Strike????, Timeless Body/'abundant step' SLA
If aging was relevant for the campaign, I would keep Timeless Body, and become middle aged if allowed :)
18: Mystic Wisdom Upgrade
19: Mystic Persistence, Feat: ?????Kirin Path????
20: Perfect Self, Mystic Prescience +4
Qinggong Monk Switches:
Slow Fall > Barkskin
High Jump > True Strike
Abundant Step > Restoration
Quivering Palm > Diamond Soul
Tongue of the Sun and the Moon > Shadow Walk
Note: Sensei replaces the bonus feats at "6th, 12th, 18th level". Since there is no feat at 12th level, I assumed here that it meant 14th.
I *could* drop Glory of Old Regional trait and get the Underlying Principles Regional trait instead, to make UMD a class skill and get +1. This would lower his saves for poison, spells, spell-like abilities (i.e. almost all of them) by 1, but allow him to use wands reliably about 3 levels earlier. Worth it for the no casters party?
If one wanted to make him more effective at combat instead, you could remove his crafting capabilities (including the Extra Traits feat), switch the 14 and the 12 in intelligence and strength, and give him some Combat-oriented feats. Alternately, at level 12 you could switch out to the Sentinel prestige class, or other martially oriented class. You don't want to switch out before level 12, however, because that's when you get 'restoration', when 'barkskin' maxes out, and the crucial ability to apply your ki-spells to ALL allies as a single action.
Hmm... now I'm thinking I shouldn't bother with the Breadth of Experience, and just go for the Kirin Style > Kirin Strike instead, which gets me the same knowledge bonus (at least for identifying creatures)
One thing I did with a Sensei was get the Helpful trait followed by Combat Reflexes and Bodyguard. Able to do quite a bit in combat, could be useful at low levels.
That's a very good idea, and a good option for the non-crafter version of this guy.
@brad mcdowell: passing slow time to the party is a neat trick--i'll have to remember that
Threadjack: I am toying with a level 15 Dwarf Monk of the Sacred Mountain/Drunken Master/Monk of the Four Winds... seems monks can have a lot of aarchetypes at once. This one is meant to mix defense AND DPR.
Some archetypes combine well. Others don't. Like, the Zen Archer combines with nothing except Qinggong monk, and that's simply because the Qinggong monk will go with anything.
I'm ignorant on Contemplative, however...instead of that I used 4 Winds instead...this allows me to dish out Slow Time to the party at level 12.
What does your party do with all the standard actions, given that they cannot cast spells with them?
I'm ignorant on Contemplative, however...instead of that I used 4 Winds instead...this allows me to dish out Slow Time to the party at level 12.What does your party do with all the standard actions, given that they cannot cast spells with them?
3 mythic vital strikes?
Ah. *remains blissfully ignorant of the additional rules of Mythic*
Regardless, that's a very impressive trick. Nonetheless, it seems you would be very ki-constrained, yes?
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There's one real caster in my group. Then 2 melee and 2 ranged. And yeah...no mythic...The group giving at level 12 helps a little, like with Barkskin, but it is a rather lengthy list of ways I can spend ki points. I would love to scorching ray all day, but I know that I can't. So also with 4 Winds, I choose the Marid Style line. Use ki to buff, then Elemental Fists in combat. Has worked pretty well so far.
Elemental fist(four winds) plus drunken strength makes for some heavy damage too ;).
I think the the Slow Time trick is likely better for a single encounter. What I like about this build, though, is that with Contemplative, and the fact that everything he does should be 1 ki once he has a ring of ki mastery, he can pop off boosts nearly 20 times a day at level 12.
Do Metamagic Rods work with spell-like abilities? I know they are treated like spells, but I'm not sure.
If so, though, man. With a single Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend, and three ki, this guy can keep a +5 natural armor bonus on the entire party for 12 hours at level 12.
With combined archetypes, can you have them all at level 1, or do you have to take a level of sensei, then a level of contemplative, etc.?
I ask because I love this combination. I get a lot out of playing support characters that can make others shine.
Hmm
they have to be taken all at once (and are not allowed to have any trades of the same ability--so no two ATs that trade still mind, for example)
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It's weird that I missed this thread when it originally popped up. At any rate, this build would benefit from a combat maneuver or three. With no real feat plan for levels after 9 I would suggest grabbing them at 10+ to add more control/support. If not, I would look into a way to deal damage or provide healing. Contemplative is OK. I prefer Drunken Master as that alone = infinite ki and fun rp. I have one and it works great for a guy who burns through ki for offensive and defensive effects every round.
As far as how much ki you will need? Around 14-15 ki is the point where you should not have to worry so much about management. My current monk has 11-12 but no ring. With a ring he is more or less fine. In any encounter or series of encounters where he has to spend ki in amounts that might leave him short for later, I just intermix more of my other, non-ki abilities into the mix to conserve the points. If you have access to temples, churches and other abodes where there are clerics of your faith, you can shore up your ki pool with meditation crystals. If you -really need more ki the Ki Matt works OK. But honestly, a ring is enough and if it isn't, a crystal or two should see you through. If you are really that worried about ki, there is the feat: Extra Ki....
I second the suggestion on Monk of the Four Winds over Contemplative. It just opens up so many more doors and neat options.
Hooray for me replying to a several month old thread. Whoo!!
ki throw and expanded ki throw (with things like vicious stomp and/or greater trip) are neato if very feat-intensive, but only at low levels since lategame stuff generally cant be tripped, unless you're an underfoot adept or something.
disarm might be handy, sunder might not be feasible depending on your weapon choice, grapple doesnt work on things not your size (unless you're a tetori iirc), i'm not sure how the later feint stuff interacts with flurry.
dirty trick might be cool as well.
Get a string of prayer beads for the bead of Karma. I think that works with SLA's. Not positive.
I would recommend getting Combat Reflexes with Bodyguard and also take up Snapping Turtle Style instead of Kirin Style. MOAR AC