Need some input on building a witch for a homebrew game. The rest of the party is a Barbarian, Oracle and Rogue. Also metamagic rods aren’t feasible to obtain based off our last campaign meaning if i want a metamagic i have to spend a feat on it. Additionally our last game went to 20+ so im fully stating the character out on the off chance i can keep the alive the whole time.
I have three different variations i'm currently tossing around. I don’t take agony in any of the variations as Ice Tomb simply seems to be a better option. Also each is planned to combine Magical Lineage (ill Omen) with quicken spell.
Had to take 3 metamagics to qualify for Spell perfection it seems like a heavy invest just so i get a debuff option for reflex saves. Though i was planning on taking quicken spell regardless.
Feats i'm considering slotting in: Spell Penetration, Spell Focus, Combat Casting, Spell Hex (I doubt the DM will allow Ability Focus)
I take improved Initiative in this variation since I trade out the scorpion greensting. Main reasoning to take a familiar is survivability and additional utility (DM won't allow Imp).
Improved Familiar Human Variation:
Race: Human
Traits: Reactionary(+2 initiative), Magical Lineage (ill Omen)
Familiar: Scorpion Greensting -> Dust Mehpit or Faerie Dragon
Feats i'm considering slotting in: Spell Penetration, Spell Focus, Combat Casting, Spell Hex (I doubt the DM will allow Ability Focus)
Same reasoning as 2nd variant yet switched to Human so my early feat progression isn’t slowed down. However, I lose +2 SR Pen, +1 Slumber DC and +2 dex. (which contributes to AC and initiative).
The only real piece of Optimization any Witch needs is the Cook People hex.
As the majority of the part will be good I doubt i'll be able to get away with actually cooking, nevertheless eating, sentient creatures regardless of how beneficial the hex is.
The only real piece of Optimization any Witch needs is the Cook People hex.
As the majority of the part will be good I doubt i'll be able to get away with actually cooking, nevertheless eating, sentient creatures regardless of how beneficial the hex is.
You can also use it to make Homonculii; the party never needs to share dinner with you!
Accursed Hex Earlier.
If you want to act as buffer with your hexes take Scar Hex. Scar your party (no negative game effect) and now your range limit for healing, fortune, etc is no longer 30 feet.
Resurrection as a Su is pretty sweet, though by that level money probably won't be an issue.
Without Ability Focus, you are restricted in your Hex DC. Perhaps consider crafting (if allowed) to acquire superior Int headbands?
What kind of oracle?
What role do you want? Thoigh it is not optimal, you could consider evoker as a secondary for a change of pace, or healer if the oracle is not going to be healing focused.
What Patron?
The Azata and the Pseudodragon are good. Homunculous is superior because of ways of sharing its immunities. Still I never picked one.
If you want to act as buffer with your hexes take Scar Hex. Scar your party (no negative game effect) and now your range limit for healing, fortune, etc is no longer 30 feet.
Resurrection as a Su is pretty sweet, though by that level money probably won't be an issue.
Good point, wish fortune was more than once per 24 hours so i could realistically use it for more than 1 combat per day.
Rerednaw wrote:
Without Ability Focus, you are restricted in your Hex DC. Perhaps consider crafting (if allowed) to acquire superior Int headbands?
Magically items save for metamagic rods are fairly easy to obtain in this DMs Homebrews generally speaking. Though i will keep it in mind, was considering eventually getting Scribe Scroll for versatility.
Rerednaw wrote:
What kind of oracle?
Other than Heaven Mystery i don't know what hes planning.
Rerednaw wrote:
What role do you want? Thoigh it is not optimal, you could consider evoker as a secondary for a change of pace, or healer if the oracle is not going to be healing focused.
What Patron?
I was mainly planning to focus on save or fail effects with some evocation on the side, limited witch evocation spell list willing. Plan on taking the Shadow or Time Patron.
Rerednaw wrote:
The Azata and the Pseudodragon are good. Homunculous is superior because of ways of sharing its immunities. Still I never picked one.
I wasn't aware you could share immunities, how is this done?
Don't take Slumber, just don't do it. You're going to bore the pants off your DM and the other players. It's widely excepted as broken and you don't need it to be good. Slumber isn't optimization, it's a yawn-fest. One-shotting everything will get dull very quickly. You don't need anything else to wreck the whole campaign.
I've played it once, but never again - I just couldn't put anyone through that again. It's a quick way to make all the other players feel completely useless.
If you could stretch your concept to get a deception or trickery patron you can get Mirror Image, which is one of the few ways a witch can get a decent defensive spell. This is especially important if you're playing an elf with something like 1d6+1 hp/level.
I always take Trickery for Mirror Image - it's just too good not to have. Without it you're so very vulnerable, especially at low levels.
Edit.
Everything about the class says Max out INT which leaves precious little left in the tank for a decent Dex as well as some Con. Even with 16 in Dex (unlikely) with Mage Armour you've only got 17 AC. And although 17 at level one is OK its not going to get much better, ever.
I recommend Ward as your 8th level hex: +3 deflection to AC and +3 resistance to saves, lasts until the creature is hit or fails a Reflex save. You can only have one Ward up at a time, but unlike most hexes, you can cast it on the same creature any number of times a day.
Don't overuse the Slumber hex, but do take it. It's made the difference between HOLY $&!# WE'RE GOING TO DIE! and *whew!* a couple of times for our group.
I support Spell Penetration, and recommend Greater Spell Penetration and the Piercing metamagic feat.
Jacking up your INT as high as possible is primary, or course, but also do anything you can to magically boost your AC. My 16th level Witch still has a pathetic AC 22. The only thing that's kept her alive this long is the party's paladin casting shield other twice a day.
For an improved familiar, I've really gotten a lot of mileage out of my lyrakien azata; add the Evolved Familiar feat for a 1-point evolution to get a +8 racial bonus to UMD, get the familiar a tiny efficient quiver so she can carry up to six wands in the compartment for staves/bows, and you have a wandslinger that can zip around the battlefield at 80' flight. Having someone who can remove fatigue and exhaustion by singing to you is also useful.
Fortune and Cackle are useful for team buffs, and if you're not using a chest slot, you can grab the Cackling Hag's Blouse and get the latter hex for a few grand. If you take the Soothsayer hex from Harrower's Handbook, you could place Fortune on people long before a battle starts and have it come into effect at the proper time, saving you a standard action in battle.
Don't take Slumber, just don't do it. You're going to bore the pants off your DM and the other players. It's widely excepted as broken and you don't need it to be good. Slumber isn't optimization, it's a yawn-fest. One-shotting everything will get dull very quickly. You don't need anything else to wreck the whole campaign.
I've played it once, but never again - I just couldn't put anyone through that again. It's a quick way to make all the other players feel completely useless.
Was planning on only using slumber when something was rushing into my face (grapple, etc.) since it doesn't provoke AoO. Though i do see how it could be a major problem if i spammed it, thanks for pointing that out.
aceDiamond wrote:
If you take the Soothsayer hex from Harrower's Handbook, you could place Fortune on people long before a battle starts and have it come into effect at the proper time, saving you a standard action in battle.
I can't find anything about this Harrower's Handbook
Don't take Slumber, just don't do it. You're going to bore the pants off your DM and the other players. It's widely excepted as broken and you don't need it to be good. Slumber isn't optimization, it's a yawn-fest. One-shotting everything will get dull very quickly. You don't need anything else to wreck the whole campaign.
I've played it once, but never again - I just couldn't put anyone through that again. It's a quick way to make all the other players feel completely useless.
Was planning on only using slumber when something was rushing into my face (grapple, etc.) since it doesn't provoke AoO. Though i do see how it could be a major problem if i spammed it, thanks for pointing that out.
aceDiamond wrote:
If you take the Soothsayer hex from Harrower's Handbook, you could place Fortune on people long before a battle starts and have it come into effect at the proper time, saving you a standard action in battle.
I can't find anything about this Harrower's Handbook
Note that 'have it come into effect at the proper time' should probably be revised to say 'have it come into effect at the first opportunity' because of how Soothsayer is worded. Lose some flexibility, gain some flexibility.
It's on page 15.
Note that 'have it come into effect at the proper time' should probably be revised to say 'have it come into effect at the first opportunity' because of how Soothsayer is worded. Lose some flexibility, gain some flexibility.
It looks especially good for retribution so no rounds are wasted if it doesn't attack. To bad it doesn't effect healing hex.
I'm of the view that since this is a player asking for optimization advice...Take Slumber. Use it.
This is your game, not ours. If you decide it's too much you can scale it back...or scale it up if you find you need it more. There's even retraining rules if you really don't like it anyway.
Per the OP the oracle is going Heavens? If that player is optimizing...that could mean scaling Color Spray. And I can only imagine what the barbarian is going to look like :)
Evocation on the side could means consider taking elements to expand your list...though you have a fairly decent default one between the cold and electricity spells...just no fireball.
The Shadow Patron that you were considering is excellent. Shadow Conjuration and Evocation greatly expand your spell repertoire. Time is useful from a utility standpoint, with haste, teleport, threefold aspect and the all-mighty timestop as a capper.
Oh regarding sharing familiar immunities...level 4 arcane spell, Familiar Melding, for wizards/witches allow you to project yourself into your familiar.
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Familiar%20Meldi ngYou keep your class, mental, spellcasting, etc...abilities, but now have the familiar's body and familiar's natural and automatic abilities (even spells and SLA's) on top of it. Ride in your melee's backpack and hex away.
It's on page 15.
Note that 'have it come into effect at the proper time' should probably be revised to say 'have it come into effect at the first opportunity' because of how Soothsayer is worded. Lose some flexibility, gain some flexibility.
It looks especially good for retribution so no rounds are wasted if it doesn't attack. To bad it doesn't effect healing hex.
I suspect that this was written that way on purpose.
That would be a very cool combo indeed.
@Rerednaw: you may be right about Slumber. It is clearly one of the most powerful tools a Witch has available. It might be worth considering taking it if the rest of the party is just bananas.
If the rest of the party is more modest/balanced, you would probably have more fun with something else.
Sleep Hex (and other optimized sleep effects) get boring really fast.
I recommend against Ward. It's useful at low levels, but once you start getting more powerful magics and magic items, the fact that it is a deflection bonus and a resistance bonus is going to get annoying.
It won't stack with your cloak of resistance, your rings of protection, or common spells that give a deflection bonus to AC like Protection from evil or shield of faith. And the whole bonus vanishes after one hit or save failure, so it's too big a risk to use on one party member instead of buying them a cloak and a ring.
Our gaming group generally caters to optimizing, GM included. So the combat encounters normally are far above the standard CR.
I'll make an alternate progression which doesn't take slumber if it turns into a problem. Our group is pretty open to allowing (informal) re-spec'ing if the character isn't working as intended or just breaking the game.
Just for reference this is what the barbarian is planning:
Human; Heart of the fields.
Unbreakable fighter (1)/Urban Barbarian (19)
1.Combat Expertise,Power Attack, Diehard, Endurance
3. Extra Rage: Witch Hunter, Superstition
5.Stalwart, Lesser Beast Totem
7.Combat Reflexes, Beast Totem
9.Improved Crit Greatsword, Reckless abandon
11.Improved Stalwart, Greater Beast Totem
13.Dazing Assault, Come and Get Me
15. Improved Sunder, Spell Sunder
17. Rage: Eater of Magic, Ghost Rager( or DR)
19. Rage: Extra DR, Extra DR
