Advice for a healer


Advice

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We are going to start a new campaign once the current game (not PF) is done, starting at level 1. We will be five players and at the moment it looks as if we will have a wizard (evoker), summoner, monk and paladin (or fighter). Despite many postings that healing is less effective than removing enemies from the battlefield, it is often mandatory and goes far beyond what secondary healers can provide (at least in our campaigns thus far). So I will fill the slot as the main healer and only full divine caster.
Could be that the game will last till 10th level, might be 20th too...most of our campaigns have run over several years and covered a few levels. Since I don't know, I assume we will get to 20.

Between the various classes that can effectively heal, I consider only cleric and oracle as serious choices. I did check the vitalist, witch and alchemist and discarded them vor various reasons.

There will be some limitations. The DM will use only the Core rulebook and the APG since he is unfamiliar with PF (he did 3.5 before) and doesnt want to let things get out of hand with his roll-players too soon :)
Second he doesn't have magic shops where we can get exactly what we want in large numbers, and none of us is going to create magic items ourselves.
For those two reasons many posts on the web are not useful to me, as they assume you can have any magic item and have access to all published feats and spells.

In 3.5 I would have picked a cleric, although after having seen a sorcerer in actual play over 25 levels, the spontaneous variant looks pretty good, too. Being new to PF I noticed that the cleric got a few subtractions from his former glory, like no heavy armor and turn undead (and its feat applications) is gone. The domains changed a bit too, although mostly for the better in my opinion.
Given the lesser power of the cleric (and a lot of curiosity) I am more interested in the Oracle. Since I will have to heal (the wand option is out of the window), picking the Life mystery is pretty much a given. Since I have no intention of trying to do two things at once, I'll go for caster and ignore melee, even if that means to wait some levels before seeing action.

As race I will take human. I had a look at the halfling, though...not sure if the racial options are better than the human in the long run.

If you are still with me, here is what I need advice for:
- What curse should I take and why (so I understand things better)?
Haunted, Tongues, Lame and Deaf all have their up- and downsides and I am not sure at all about them. I certainly don't want Blind (the idea for a ranged caster...) and Wasting, though. What have been others experiences with their curse?

- What feats would be good?
Currently I am entertaining the idea of picking Selective Channeling and Combat Casting at 1st level, since I don't want to heal the enemy in battle and casting defensively is more difficult than in 3.5. According to the old rule "kill the healer first, arcanes second", I have no prayer of standing unmolested outside the melee to heal my group or harass the enemy.
I easily found enough metamagic to fill the rest of the available feats :) But in the article "Channeling the Cosmos" the author wrote that even a full caster needs only 3-4 of them. So what other feats would be of benefit?

- What to do about my stats?
CHA will take first place, followed by CON, so far so good. As no-melee I don't need high STR. So what to do about DEX, WIS and INT? Is there any reason why an Oracle needs WIS except maybe to boost perception? Is it really worth a feat to get into heavy armor and drop DEX?

- What about spells?
I did take a look at the colors in "Channeling the Cosmos", but I would like to know from other Oracles, which spells have been good, especially together with metamagic.
I haven't read the bestiaries, so I have no idea how common or dangerous certain attacks are, which give weight to certain spells. How important are remove spells in that light? Remove disease, blindness and curse are lot of 3rd level spells for example and are covered by later spells, too - assuming I can get one or the other on scrolls, will that do or are they valuable enough to be taken (and maybe switched out later)?

- What about arcane spells?
Are there ways to get one or two arcane spells of my choice (not the Haunted curse) into my repertoire? Are there items that allow this?
I tried it the other way round by picking another mystery with the spells and refitting for healer, but some of the healing revelations are better for my purpose than what I would get.

Please let me know, if you can help me out :)


Life oracle means you're basically already set for healing. For free out of combat healing, use this. For context, spark has the fire descriptor. And you can cast in an unlimited times per day.

Out of interest, how long do your combats usually last? Healing can become vital if combat drags for many turns, most commonly due to HP fudging on the part of the GM. I once played in a game where a player boasted in-combat healing was absolutely necessary to survive the GM's encounters. It was true in the end, but only because the GM was very obviously doubling or tripling monster HP. The players, who had always played under that GM, thought that was just much HP monsters had.

Sovereign Court

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I have an Aasimar life oracle in PFS who also has a few "screw the bad guy" type spells - murderous command, sound burst, hold person. I made sure I purchased a rod of persistence and I'm never without things to do during combat.

Healing is good, but not having to heal is even better. Healing should always be your second option, you should always have something useful to do if no one in your group needs healing.


You don't need the Life mystery to heal effectively as an Oracle. While the mystery spells mean you get healing spells automatically you can get to choose all of them anyway regardless of mystery.

Probably the best way to think about Oracles is to split them into "Casters" or "Melee". Casters prioritise CHA over other stats and tend to hang back buffing or controlling (or healing if needed). Melee have their physical stats weighted higher and keep CHA to the minimum needed for their highest spell level, tending to focus on buffing and melee. Depending on if you want to play a Melee or Caster Oracle, adjust your stats and mystery to suit.

While the Life mystery has its uses, it's definitely not the strongest. It doesn't give you spells from outside the normal Oracle spell selection, which is the strength of some mysteries. Nor are the revelations particularly powerful in situations other than healing - they're not really needed. You'll be good at healing regardless of mystery, and Channeling isn't as effective as you'd think.

With regard to Arcane Spells there are a number of ways to get them. Many mysteries have some as standard. You could consider the Arcane Heritage line of feats, which can let you pick and choose a few if you go for the Arcane bloodline. The Elven Lorekeeper archetype also gets to pick and choose from Arcane spells.

It sounds like you want to play a caster type rather than melee. It's worth considering your choice of battlefield control, buffing and debuffing as your main aims in combat and building accordingly. Healing is something you don't really need to focus on, just pick up restoration/remove spells as you level.


Arcane spells you can only get through items or mysteries. You've picked your mystery so that's out. I would worry too much about it though. You have a wizard and a summoner in the party.

You should have plenty of buff spells and coordinate which ones you have and your party members have.

Channeling is handy but you are gonna do more healing out of combat or with your life link than with channeling in battle. Battle Channeling is more for undead mooks to be honest.

The number one metamagic feat I'd consider is reach spell. This way you don't have to be right next to you're party members for an emergency heal.

As for curses, of the options you provide, deaf and lame are the best and I'd choose deaf. Having silent casting on all your spells is awesome and improved initiative (which you should be taking anyway) takes away the worst part of the curse.

Your stats should be CHA first DEX and CON second dump the rest. Having no DEX and Full Plate is the same as having +3 dex and a Breastplate. The Breastplate is cheaper and has a lower armor check penalty. Plus you wanted to be a ranged caster so you should use a ranged weapon anyway.

EDIT: Also never underestimate the power of energy body. The effect of healing by having people pass through you isn't that good but having elemental body so early is. You can a whole bunch of good defensive abilities like being immune to crits and precision damage.


Your front line may be better at keeping people at bay than you think; a summoner, their minions, a monk and a paladin/fighter might be enough that you could skip Combat Casting.

If wands aren't happening you can probably afford the downside of the Haunted curse easily. Alternately if you go with Nature mystery rather than Life, and a small race like Gnome or Halfling, you can get the Bonded mount revelation and avoid having to walk at all, so the Lame curse becomes livable. Nature is a lot more interesting than Life IMO, your revelations are good enough that you will happily spend feats on Extra Revelation.


Life Oracle is a really strong healer. Human is great for a race due to the favored class bonus to pick up extra spells known. The Life Oracle is going to have a hard time being offensive with just the Core and APG.

An oracle is going to have a rough time removing all the detrement effects. A cleric is much better at being able to do it the-very-next-day. The human oracle dedicating his FCB towards the restoring spells helps a lot. The Life Oracle gets a few of these restoring spells for free. And when you do have the restorative spell, you can spam it like no one else. That's nice.

Later on, bringing people back from the dead is tough as using up a spell choice on Raise Dead is going to be a (hopefully) rarely used spell to "waste" on a spell known.

That said...

Revelations: Channel, Life Link, Energy Body - these are your mainstays. These become especially important in a campaign without as much access to "bought" healing. These all heal (or add efficiency to Channeling for Life Link) outside of spells. This is key.

Feats: Selective Channel, Toughness (Life Oracles demand lots of innate hitpoints with Life Link), Improved Initiative, Extra Revelation, Reach Spell

EDIT: Combat Casting is a terrible feat for the Life Oracle. You have so many options for no concentration healing it's crazy. You'd be better off picking Extra Revelation and take the revelation that allows you to cast cure spells without a concentration check.

Stats: CHA, CON (Life Oracles need lots of hitpoints), and then flavor it out. Wisdom is useful for Spiritual Weapon spells (unless the GM will allow you to base it off CHA).

Buff Spells: Bless, Shield of Faith, Protection From Evil, Bull's Strength, Prayer

Offense Spells: Cause Fear (swap to Command later), Sound Burst, Summon spells, Blindness/Deafness (really rude debuff effect on blindness)

Restoring Spells: Remove Paralysis, Lesser Restoration, Dispel Magic, Remove Disease, Neutralize Poison, Remove Curse, Breath of Life, Restoration


@Blakmane:
In 3.5 combat took anywhere between 3 and 15 rounds, depending on combatants involved, level and spells used. I would say that it used to be 6-8 rounds on average. Having a new DM will also make a difference, but I expect it to stay roughly in the same time frame.

Dark Archive

Half elf or aasimar life Oracle. Use favored class bonus (half elf can use elfs) for +1/2 to level got 1 revelation. Choose channel energy. At level 6 you channel for 9d6.

Grab eldritch heritage for arcane bloodline. Get and
a familiar todeliver your touch spells. If you take the improved eldritch heritage feat at 11 you can learn a wizard spell too. You could also pick up improved familiar with some good options.

If you can use the spell paragon surge from the ARG you can learn any feat, including the one to learn more spells, or improved eldritch heritage and temporarily learn spells and cast them from your spell slots.

The life link power is super handy. As is body of energy. There's also a revelation that lets you spend 2 spell slots to quicken a cure spell. That'll let you heal people as a free Acton, part of movement, a swift action, and as a standard if you really want to

Take the trait dangerously curious, and max out umd. Your familiar shares your ranks. Use an improved familiar and give it a wand to help cure.

So you could heal people up to 5 times a round.
If you can use the feat fey founding from the inner sea book, all dice roled to heal you get +2, letting you heal yourself support effective, which is good since most of the group's damage will end up on your character


A few questions.

1)How much/serious healing does your group often need in combat? Meaning do you need to spend your turns casting big heals or could smaller heals get you by for the first 6 or so levels?

-I have found hospitaler paladin to be a really strong healing option. Channel is the best in combat way to heal in pathfinder (the only reason to go life oracle). As a paladin you get this ability at -3 effective cleric level. Add to that the paladin's lay on hands ability and the option to shield others (taking half their damage and lay on hands yourself).

2)What happens with magic items? How likely are you going to find one that is useful to you? Are you able to request items?

-There is an item that boosts channel strength that you would really like to get.

3)What do you want to do when you are not healing? I saw you say you don't want to melee, do you want to cast other spells/abilities or just hold until healing is needed?

Quote:
Half elf or aasimar life Oracle. Use favored class bonus (half elf can use elfs) for +1/2 to level got 1 revelation. Choose channel energy. At level 6 you channel for 9d6.

This is great advice if the advanced race guide is open to you. While I'm pretty sure you said it wasn't.

Silver Crusade

It sounds like the Original Poster would do really well with an Oradin build. I've not played an Oradin, but I've GMed for several and can attest to their effectiveness. An Oradin is a multi-classed Life Oracle/Paladin. This build works fine for CRB, and gets slightly better with the APG due to the Hospitaller archetype of Paladin, as mentioned above. The Oradin doesn't don't require any special books or gear.

The Oradin has the best qualities of the Life Oracle and the Paladin:

1. The extreme durability of the Paladin: great saves, heavy armor, & swift-action self-healing. You will be very hard to kill. Also you won't look or visibly act like the primary healer that you are.

2. The awesome healing power of the Life Oracle. The Life Oracle is definitely the best Healer option in Pathfinder. Life Link is the main reason, because of the improved action economy over a Cleric's healing.

3. Can be an effective front-line melee combatant while simultaneously filling the role of primary healer, all while being nearly indestructible.

Ordinarily I don't much like multi-classing, but the synergy between these classes is terrific. You take just enough Life Oracle levels to put Life Link on every ally who really needs it, and the rest in Paladin. The above-mentioned Hospitaler archetype works really well. It actually works best to alternate classes: Paladin-1st, Oracle-2nd, Paladin-3rd, Oracle-4th, et cetera. If you can only ever get one magic item, you want one of these.

The Oradin approach gets such excellent action economy that it's almost like having two characters. Each round the Oradin passively heals wounded allies, uses Swift Action lay on hands to self-heal, can channel as a Move action, which still leaves open the standard action and AoOs.

The most important feat for a Life Oracle or Oradin, bar none, is having Fey Foundling at First Level. You can only take it at First Level. Read carefully, and note the +2 to HP healed is per die. Fey Foundling increases your total healing output by about 50%. No other feat even comes close. Unfortunately, this is from the Inner Sea World Guide, and is not available to the OP.

@OP: Selective Channel is a good option, since you have enough CHA to exclude many creatures, and since you will have many Channels. You will probably want Quick Channel at 5th level. The Oradin (Hospitaller) archetype will have four different pools of positive healing energy : Life Oracle Channels, Divine Spells, Hospitaller Channels, and Paladin Lay On Hands. Don't bother with Combat Casting, it will not be an issue.

A Plain old Life Oracle would be a fine option for the group you describe. So would a Cleric, or any other type of Oracle. Given the group and the situation, I can't think of anything that would fill the role you describe better than an Oradin.

Scarab Sages

Name Violation wrote:

Half elf or aasimar life Oracle. Use favored class bonus (half elf can use elfs) for +1/2 to level got 1 revelation. Choose channel energy. At level 6 you channel for 9d6.

The extra fcb brings the Level 6 character equivalent to a Level 9 in terms of channel energy. This only brings the channel to 5d6, not 9d6. You can bring it at max to 7d6 with the headband.


If you can't rely on buying scrolls for condition removal, cleric is the only option. You need the whole spell list access to get the diverse remove and restore spells.

Shadow Lodge

As far as the curses go, if you want to do spell casting haunted is good, the spells you get later on are amazing.

If you're wanting to negate the downside of the curse tongues is pretty damn good, your party just needs to put on a point in linguistics and grab the language you speak during combat.

Deaf is interesting, having your spells silenced is nice, but during social encounters you're not going to be able to do much, you can put a point into linguistics to learn to lip read (I think this is in the FAQ).

Lame is probably more suited for mounted small characters or melee combat characters. On the plus side it completely negates itself by 10th level (assuming you're wearing medium or heavier armour)


Regarding spells, I'd highly suggest making a Human PC so you can get extra spells known as your favored class bonus. This could be great for picking up a variety of spells including those to remove conditions like blindness. There are some magic items such as the ring of spell knowledge which can give you access to spells from the lists of arcane casters although it doesn't seem clear whether you'll be able to buy the items you want.

For the curse, Deaf might be an interesting curse if you're willing to deal with the roleplaying consequences. The strategy of casting Silence on yourself and moving up to disable enemy spellcasters while you can still cast might be pretty strong. If the wizard or summoner is willing to make you invisible you could then turn you into a silent, invisible healer, which seems pretty cool and might help solve a lot of your defensive concerns. Obviously a ring of invisibility would be nice for this too. You could also cast Summon Monster spells without being seen or heard.


If you go human and use the favored class bonus for extra spells known, you can pick up the restore/remove spells you might need in combat (fear/poison/paralysis), then scroll the rest.

My life oracle looooves spiritual weapon/ally: after casting one or more of those, she can continue to contribute to combat even while healing the front-liners. Quick Channel is also handy for that, or for piling on when big healing numbers are needed.


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A few random suggestions:

I see lots of posts so far recommending the "life" Oracle, I would disagree. Just because you want to heal doesn't mean that should be ALL you do. Healing is necessary in any party as you mention in your OP, but healing isn't a good choice as a SOLE focus for any PC.

I recommend the Battle Oracle. It has a good healing option allowing healing as a swift action (once/day at first level), not a bad option if you want to healing-specialize, which actually makes healing a good choice during combat! In addition, your character can be an effective combatant as well. Honestly, you are going to get every healing spell with lots of castings per day, and casting healing spells as a swift action - that will cover the healing needs of the party - honestly, and you can contribute beyond healing.

It also has multiple other available options that are particularly wonderful, such as rolling 2 dice for initiative, or the "charge" ability which is really like an immediate action teleport - so good it's nearly broken.

As for curse, I'm partial to the haunted curse. It's inconvenient, but not debilitating, and the extra spells known are particularly nice when you are a spontaneous caster.

Human should work fine for race, I would put the +2 in Str not Cha.

Ability scores: Got to disagree with the OP here. Casters need a super-high primary stat ONLY if they are relying on spells with DC's. The Cleric list is far more focused on healing/self buffing/summoning and that's precisely what you should do with it. Focus on your combat stats, then have enough CHA to cast your highest level spell. A 14 CHA at 1st level is plenty. I would recommend focusing on Str as a primary, with Cha/Dex/Con as secondary stats. This will make you an effective combatant and caster with all the healing your party will need. When you need an offensive spell, throw a summon monster spell out, since there is no DC, the casting stat won't be an issue.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

There is a 3rd party feat on the SRD called Mystic Healing that gives you a scaling bonus whenever you magically heal: channeling, casting, wands, etc. etc. My paladin has it.

Fey Foundling is really useful if allowed, too.

That favored class bonus mentioned up-thread that improved Channel Energy sounds super awesome!!!

I play a paladin that is our primary healer, and he's doing an excellent job. (my party is my paladin (had an inquisitor that died from insufficient healing), a dark tapestry oracle/rogue/wannabe shadowdancer, a dueling fighter, a utility diviner wizard (no evoke or necro), and a psion.) Definitely coordinate with the player that is picking between fighter or paladin. Paladins get a lot immunities and healing, and they're pretty good in melee and ranged combat too. Combine their general toughness and swift-action healing, and they're pretty boss.

While Treantmonk is right about Cha for casting, if you're going Life Oracle, that super high Charisma is going to be helpful in getting extra heals. Being able to fully heal up the party during or after each encounter is really going to be helpful with survivablity.


I'm completely with Treatmonk on this. You don't need to be a Life Oracle or have particularly high Charisma if your main role is healing and buffing. High Charisma will just get you a couple more castings per day if you don't use offensive spells. You don't need to take the healing specialist option to be a great healer.

Most of the Mysteries available give you great options for builds that can heal and also provide another role. Nature Oracles get an animal companion and AC stat boost to AC and weird situational stuff. Battle, Ancestor and Metal Oracles are straight-up frontliners who can also heal effectively. If you want to play a stands-at-the-back caster then just grab a cheap reach metamagic rod and heal from the back when you're not summoning/buffing/debuffing.


Battle Oracle is nice, but the Life Oracle's Channel Energy could help keep summoned monsters on the table. I like the idea of summoning for a healer since the summoned monsters give the player a way to make attacks instead of feeling like you're "wasting" your turn on healing. Obviously there's a big debate about how healing is not the most effective option in combat, but if somebody wants to heal a lot this seems like a decent way to go about it. I certainly wouldn't mind adventuring with a PC like this (or perhaps even as one though I'd probably go with an Evangelist Cleric and Animal Domain instead)


Vitalist/paladin is the most potent healer I can think of for action economy and being able to do more then just heal. Using a 2 hander and attacking, using lay on hands as a swift to heal ANYONE in link with fey founding bonus if allowed. You also can take the channel if a hospitaler paladin and dump all 5 channeled peoples healing exactly as you see fit.

If the campaign is not so good the the shenanigans get even worse as you can meld unwilling into the mix and and use them as HP batteries. The vitalist is 3.5's answer to heals suck. YMMV


Blakmane wrote:

Life oracle means you're basically already set for healing. For free out of combat healing, use this. For context, spark has the fire descriptor. And you can cast in an unlimited times per day.

Just because of this unintended (ab-)use glorious heat was nerfed.

It now only heals HP equal to the spell's level and doesn't function with spark anymore.


@OP
If you go life oracle look at the life link revelation. It helps better distribute damage, making channel more effective.

For curse I'd stay away from deaf as a healer because it can prove fatal if you can't hear someone's cry for help/healing.


Don't neglect mundane healing via the Heal skill either. It is a class skill for the Oracle and the Paladin, and would be worth it in the long run if you both maxed ranks in it. This will allow double the normal healing each night, and provide a rather decent backup for those long days when you had to use everything you've got from the spell lists.
it also provides early ways to cure poison, disease, and ability damage.


Devilkiller wrote:
Battle Oracle is nice, but the Life Oracle's Channel Energy could help keep summoned monsters on the table. I like the idea of summoning for a healer since the summoned monsters give the player a way to make attacks instead of feeling like you're "wasting" your turn on healing. Obviously there's a big debate about how healing is not the most effective option in combat, but if somebody wants to heal a lot this seems like a decent way to go about it. I certainly wouldn't mind adventuring with a PC like this (or perhaps even as one though I'd probably go with an Evangelist Cleric and Animal Domain instead)

I've got nothing against channel energy, which is a moderately useful ability (when you get it automatically, like with a Cleric), but selecting a sub-par mystery then using up a valuable revelation slot to get an ability that's largely redundant with the abilities you already have (rather than enhance them) is not a good choice.

Healing other PC's can be a very effective option in combat, the idea that "optimizers" suggest that you shouldn't heal in combat is a myth. The suggestion is to not make "healer" your primary role in combat. If you make someone who can heal, make sure they can do other things too.

From an optimization perspective, there is nothing wrong with a Cleric or Oracle throwing out a healing spell in combat when needed. Sometimes though, healing is overused because a player may not know how else their character could better contribute to the oombat effort. This can be due to the player not understanding that it is often more effective to prevent damage than to try to keep pace with damage through healing, or it can be due to making a character that is built poorly and struggles to contribute.

Basing your build around healing summoned monsters is the latter problem. Most summoned monsters will die with a single round of attack from a CR appropriate enemy (even with A.S.), and if they don't die, you are probably better off doing something else (maybe even summon more) than healing them. If the enemy is killing your summoned monsters, that's a GOOD thing. Tactically that wins battles while minimizing the need for healing PC's.


The big thing is knowing when to heal.

While healing allies while the fight is still happening isn't always as effective, if your friend is unconcious/paralysed/disabled being able to return another player's worth of actions to the fight is game turning. Another thing is keeping the tank/DPS up for a few extra rounds can be pretty damned critical too.

There's been many times where I've been the last one standing with a party wipe depending on when I fall. Spending my action on bringing someone back into the fight changed everything.


Deadalready wrote:
There's been many times where I've been the last one standing with a party wipe depending on when I fall. Spending my action on bringing someone back into the fight changed everything.

This is the main reason I go against the idea that a party needs a 'healer'. In practice, most parties are safer with 2 partial healers than one full healer.


@Treantmonk - With my Monk1/Summoner14 I've seen big summons like T-Rex hold up pretty well in combat, especially against things which can't beat their DR. Getting them out is pretty expensive, so a cheap way to extend their table time might not be too bad. Anyhow, I acknowledged that the Battle Oracle is nice. I just think the Life Oracle could be effective too. After all, you'd heal yourself and the other PCs along with the summoned monsters. This would probably work best if the rest of the party had a lot of buffs and debuffs they could deploy as combat wore on.

Perhaps I'm aiming more for the "good enough to do well in an AP" level than the "optimized" level, but I've seen a Life Oracle with Quick Channel as a cohort in a homebrew game which I DM, and it seems pretty effective. I'd rate the game as reasonably difficult. PCs certainly die from time to time.


Treantmonk wrote:
I've got nothing against channel energy, which is a moderately useful ability (when you get it automatically, like with a Cleric), but selecting a sub-par mystery then using up a valuable revelation slot to get an ability that's largely redundant with the abilities you already have (rather than enhance them) is not a good choice.

The strength of the Life Oracle is that you get lots of healing without using spell slots. You can cast somewhere around twice as much as the Battle Oracle and still provide more healing. That is a very credible enhancement.

Life Oracles as a "healer" (even partial) can also choose a larger variety of spells known due to getting quite a few of the key condition removal spells automatically.

It is far easier to shut down Battle Oracle combat healing. Life Oracles almost can't be stopped due to supernatural (Su) healing.

Treantmonk wrote:
If you make someone who can heal, make sure they can do other things too.

This is the most important thing. Well said.

How someone does this with a Life Oracle is by having more freedom to use spell slots to do things other than healing. Healing is mostly covered via the non-spell abilities.

*********************************

For posterity, that swift action healing revelation requires 7th level, a revelation pick, burns two spell slots and still can only be used once per day at 7th level. It's okay for an emergency heal, but do note the extravagant cost. You'd get far more bang for the buck with the Extra Channel feat. Channels heal at range, while threatened and/or grappled as well, so have different, but as much emergency healing utility (while retaining immensely more out of combat healing).


It's been said before, but it's worth calling out again: Reach Spell is excellent for an Oracle that will be healing a lot. Breath of life at range can be *really* handy.


Right, Life Oracle is the way to go.

It's not so much their spells, it's the Mysteries, Channel is a great way to heal without burning spells, and with Selective Channel it's a great in combat healing ability.

You won;t need Combat casting. Later you will pick Safe Curing (Su), and Extra Mystery is a good feat choice. You dont provoke when Channeling.

Channel (Su) is the #1.

Combat Healer (Su), Enhanced Cures (Su), Life Link (Su) and Spirit Boost (Su) are all good. Later take Lifesense (Su) which is a great detection ability.

The Oradin is a good choice in a party that also needs a tank. Since your party already has two, skip it for now.

Haunted is the best Curse here.

Since you have plenty of healing, pick some other spells, like Bless, Summon monster, etc. You need buffs and something offensive.

Grand Lodge

Treantmonk wrote:

I've got nothing against channel energy, which is a moderately useful ability (when you get it automatically, like with a Cleric), but selecting a sub-par mystery then using up a valuable revelation slot to get an ability that's largely redundant with the abilities you already have (rather than enhance them) is not a good choice.

Healing other PC's can be a very effective option in combat, the idea that "optimizers" suggest that you shouldn't heal in combat is a myth. The suggestion is to not make "healer" your primary role in combat. If you make someone who can heal, make sure they can do other things too.

From an optimization perspective, there is nothing wrong with a Cleric or Oracle throwing out a healing spell in combat when needed. Sometimes though, healing is overused because a player may not know how else their character could better contribute to the oombat effort. This can be due to the player not understanding that it is often more effective to prevent damage than to try to keep pace with damage through healing, or it can be due to making a character that is built poorly and struggles to contribute.

Basing your build around healing summoned monsters is the latter problem. Most summoned monsters will die with a single round of attack from a CR appropriate enemy (even with A.S.), and if they don't die, you are probably better off doing something else (maybe even summon more) than healing them. If the enemy is killing your summoned monsters, that's a GOOD thing. Tactically that wins battles while minimizing the need for healing PC's.

Everything here is 100% correct.

My very first Pathfinder cleric was a channel healer....I hated it. The d6s where never enough even with a Phylactery of Positive Channeling. If my group won the battle handily I had nothing contribute to combat. If they where loosing I was spending most my turns loosing the damage race verses healing. Typically they did 30 damage...I healed 15...it allowed my group perhaps 1 extra turn but in the end I still had to unload my wands after battle. This was the campaign I started to dig deeper into Pathfinder to learn a better way of playing. This being said I learned a few things from experiance with this character:

1. Channel energy is a sub-par ability.
2. Turn undead is even more useless...its better to just channel to harm undead.
3. Quick channel is nice...but tends to trap you in the mindset of using channels more.
3. Selective channel is a feat tax and building for more movement can actually be avoided with proper thought and positioning.
4. Terming yourself healer makes you think less and makes your group fall into the lets trade blows with it mindset. It will actually cause deaths.
5. I would rather cast a Resist energy to negate half the fireball damage then try and heal my group through it with channels. I learned more about negations and Mitigation and learned better how to use a caster.
6. Learned to use Summon monsters for protections...need circle of protection? Throw out a Hound Archon to flank for your front line and get them in the circle of effect. You just accomplished many things in 1 action...you offered another meat-bag to negate an attack if swung on, You offered Pro Evil, you offered a flank. Much better use of your standard action then a few d6s of healing cause your guys took a little damage.


Even life oracles have too few spells known to get all the remove and restore spells in a timely fashion. Being human doesn't help much because it can't get you extra top level spells. It gets you your 2nd level removes a little earlier, but still at more than twice the level a cleric does. The need for condition removal generally shows up by CR according to the cleric schedule so that's really bad.

The OP has said he won't be able to shop for magic items reliably which means scrolls and pages of spell knowledge are off the table as far as necessities go.

One oracle just can't do the job under those circumstances. Two oracles or an oracle and a paladin or an oracle and a druid could if you never meet the major early condition inflicters as boss enemies, or an oracle and a healing patron witch, but the only way to get all the spells in a timely fashion on one character is a cleric.


I would suggest the blackened curse. Unless you want to go melee that is.
But if you are not planning on doing that it gives you some offensive spells to use should you ever need them.

Grand Lodge

Quote:

Even life oracles have too few spells known to get all the remove and restore spells in a timely fashion. Being human doesn't help much because it can't get you extra top level spells. It gets you your 2nd level removes a little earlier, but still at more than twice the level a cleric does. The need for condition removal generally shows up by CR according to the cleric schedule so that's really bad.

The OP has said he won't be able to shop for magic items reliably which means scrolls and pages of spell knowledge are off the table as far as necessities go.

One oracle just can't do the job under those circumstances.

I recommend a cleric that has worked in Scribe Scroll. you get your entire spell list, you can write in the needed fix or scribe it in the off day. Just remember do not scribe a scroll of remove blindness unless you have someone else that can use it when you are blinded. kinda hard to read a scroll blind.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Just remember do not scribe a scroll of remove blindness unless you have someone else that can use it when you are blinded. kinda hard to read a scroll blind.

Still not a bad idea to have one or two in case *other* party members are blinded.

Grand Lodge

I typically tell everyone to buy a potion of remove blindness. Sometimes that shining child blinds most the group. At least that's what experience I've had. Not fun when 3/4 of your party members are blind and they guy with 0 magic abilities passes.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
I typically tell everyone to buy a potion of remove blindness.

And label your potions in braille. :)


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Quote:

Even life oracles have too few spells known to get all the remove and restore spells in a timely fashion. Being human doesn't help much because it can't get you extra top level spells. It gets you your 2nd level removes a little earlier, but still at more than twice the level a cleric does. The need for condition removal generally shows up by CR according to the cleric schedule so that's really bad.

The OP has said he won't be able to shop for magic items reliably which means scrolls and pages of spell knowledge are off the table as far as necessities go.

One oracle just can't do the job under those circumstances.

I recommend a cleric that has worked in Scribe Scroll. you get your entire spell list, you can write in the needed fix or scribe it in the off day. Just remember do not scribe a scroll of remove blindness unless you have someone else that can use it when you are blinded. kinda hard to read a scroll blind.

You don't need scribe scroll. You have a wizard. It's possible to craft spell trigger/completion items for spells not on your list if you have someone else who can cast the spell assisting you.

It would be better to take craft wand and trade services with the wizard, especially if the martial chooses paladin over fighter since then you could have wands of lesser restoration as a first level spell.

Grand Lodge

Quote:
And label your potions in braille. :)

Or say to your handy haversack in your mind...I need that potion of Blindness removal.

Quote:
You don't need scribe scroll. You have a wizard. It's possible to craft spell trigger/completion items for spells not on your list if you have someone else who can cast the spell assisting you.

I missed he had a wizard. But if you do then take a different craft feat. Your already going to not be able to find everything you need.


Rory wrote:


The strength of the Life Oracle is that you get lots of healing without using spell slots.

Lots of points made, but this is the key right here. This sums it all up.

As an Oracle, you will have all the cure spells automatically (assuming you don't pick lousy "inflict" spells...ew.)

That means you can heal, automatically, several times per day. Granted, you'll absolutely need the Heal spell when it comes available as cure critical wounds does not hold up beyond mid level.

Revelations are the best feature of an Oracle, probably the main reason one would choose an Oracle over a Cleric. With revelations you get 3 choices.

1) Pick a revelation that enhances a current ability
2) Pick a revelation that provides you with a completely new ability
3) Pick a revelation that duplicates an ability you already have

Yes, if you use up your revelation on the third option, you can do the things you could already do even more often than before, but you've reduced your options.

You can either choose to do a small number of things a set number of times, or a large number of things with the same number of overall uses. The versatility is free if you choose it.

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread "Don't forget the healing skill - it's a class skill!" This is pretty much the same thing (and the optimizer in me winced when I read it). You can duplicate any of the uses of the healing skill with spells you are probably going to have (or at least have in a scroll or wand), or you could choose a skill that you can't duplicate with spells, increasing the number of things you can actually do (How about Diplomacy? - it's not based on a stat you will likely dump)

Yes, having the healing skill might save you a spell, but you have the spells, and you have lots of castings per day, and you have a limited number of things you can do with those spells. When you get other abilities included in your character, it makes sense (at least to me) to deliberately choose abilities/skills that you CAN'T otherwise do. You just have more options that way.


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Rory wrote:
For posterity, that swift action healing revelation requires 7th level, a revelation pick, burns two spell slots and still can only be used once per day at 7th level. It's okay for an emergency heal, but do note the extravagant cost. You'd get far more bang for the buck with the Extra Channel feat. Channels heal at range, while threatened and/or grappled as well, so have different, but as much emergency healing utility (while retaining immensely more out of combat healing).

You can cast when grappled too. You can also move and cast a spell in the same round too. Channel energy will also heal less to a single wounded ally then a level appropriate healing spell. BTW, Oracles get lots of castings per day. Yes, you can run out of spells, but probably no faster than an equivalent level sorcerer.

The healing revelation is indeed limited, but using 2 spell slots to get quicken spell with no level adjustment is a bargain.

Normally for an Oracle to use quicken spell on cure critical wounds he would need to be 16th level. 7th level is fantastic.

That said, its not nearly the best mystery on the Battle Oracle list, but useful for someone who wants to be able to heal in combat.

(Personally, I would take Surprising charge at 1st level, War sight at 3rd, and maybe Combat Healer or Battlefield Clarity at 7th, and Iron Skin at 11th (stoneskin without material components - wizards will be so jealous!))


It is kind of funny that Blindness came up since 2 out of 3 PCs in our 17th level game are currently blind without any way to remove blindness (besides Teleport back to town and hope we can find some scrolls). Obviously we should have bought the scrolls when we were in town a few hours ago to get scrolls of Stone to Flesh, but apparently nobody thought of it. Having condition removal available "on demand" would be pretty convenient, and human Oracles can know a LOT of spells. It might be kind of fun to be able to fix just about anything.

I agree that Craft Wand is a great feat. Wands of Delay Poison can sometimes be a real game changer. Oracles also have the Charisma to get a familiar, but the feat investment there can be pretty heavy if you have anything else planned.


Treatmonk, I still say the Life Oracle is better.

Channel gives you 4+ Channels a day, which is that many spells about = to your highest or next highest level. And, as you said, you can channel while grappled, and it doesn't provoke, which can be huge, as the healing can save YOU.

They both get Combat Healer (Su)but Enhanced Cures (Su), Life Link (Su) and Spirit Boost (Su) are all good. Later take Lifesense (Su) which is a great detection ability.

And, if you are the main healer, you will want those spells on the Life oracles list, at least the restorations and Breath of Life.

Not that Battle oracle isn't a decent choice.


Devilkiller wrote:
It is kind of funny that Blindness came up since 2 out of 3 PCs in our 17th level game are currently blind without any way to remove blindness (besides Teleport back to town and hope we can find some scrolls).

17th level and no Heal? No Miracle or Wish even Limited?


I quite like paladins for HP healing since you can do lots of other stuff while still being a pretty awesome healer, consider a Sacred Servant Paladin: At level 11, with (only) 18 cha, fey foundling and greater mercy they're capable of self healing an average of 33hp per round (up to 15x per day thanks to their version of divine bond, or 21x with the feats below).

Or with a phylactery of positive healing, and divine bond to turbo charge channel energy to make it heal 44hp on average which they can do 4x per day (or 7x per day with the feats below).

Later on they get greater planar ally and can summon a trumpet archon which among other things has the heal spell.

In most parties it shouldn't be necessary, but you could build a Sacred Servant Paladin around healing, something Like:

1 Fey Foundling, Greater Mercy, 16 cha
3 Power Attack
4 +1 cha
5 Extra lay on hands
7 Ultimate Mercy, +4 cha item = 21 cha
8 +1 cha
9 Extra lay on hands
11 Extra lay on hands

Despite all that healing you defiantly want wands of Cure Light Wounds and Lesser Restoration too.

Generally it's best not to channel in combat, but with the right items and feats it doesn't totally suck to do so occasionally (Swift Channel, Quick Runner's Shirt & probably Selective Channel). This works better for Hospitaler Paladins who get a separate pool of channels.


Treantmonk wrote:
Rory wrote:
For posterity, that swift action healing revelation requires 7th level, a revelation pick, burns two spell slots and still can only be used once per day at 7th level. It's okay for an emergency heal, but do note the extravagant cost. You'd get far more bang for the buck with the Extra Channel feat. Channels heal at range, while threatened and/or grappled as well, so have different, but as much emergency healing utility (while retaining immensely more out of combat healing).
You can cast when grappled too.

Past low levels this gets really difficult. Unlike most concentration checks, the DC of a grapple casting check will tend to scale faster than your bonus, since CMB of foes scales somewhat faster in itself, and then you are adding the spell level.

There are some particularly severe jumps in the mid level range. By CR 10 for example you can be facing stuff like the anaconda for DC 40+spell level concentration checks.


I'd disagree with you about Enhanceed Cures, DrDeth. It doesn't seem like a particularly good ability compared to many other Revelations. It only has a meaningful effect on Cure Light Wounds and Cure Moderate Wounds, and even then only when you're at a level where that amount of healing is becoming trivial. These are the primary two spells it effects before level 15, and are you really likely to try a d8+14 CLW in combat at level 14?

It does increase the HP-per-cast efficiency of CLW and Mass CLW though, so I suppose it has a place in a campaign with no magic shop.


Gah, when did I post tha.... oh.

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