Need advice handling a party of six

[Reebo Kesh]

My current party has almost finished book 2 of S&S and it's been a complete cake walk. With the exception of the fight against Isabella the party have not had any problems with the ship combat or fighting underwater or much of anything else.

They currently consist of:-

Female Undine Druid (Shark Shaman) - 6th

Male Ifrit Sorceror (Elemental Bloodline - Fire)/Bard (Archeologist) - 5th/1st

Female Changling (Sea Hag mother), Witch (Sea Witch archetype) - 6th

Male (Oni-Spawn) Tiefling Monk/Gunslinger - 5th/1st

Female Dhampir Cleric of Urgathoa/Agent of the Grave - 5th/1st

Male Tengu Ninja/Gunslinger - 3rd/3rd

With the rest of the adventure path can anyone tell me if they think it will be too easy for this group?

If so what can I do about it?

[KarlBob]

You could try adding Advanced templates to enemies and adding extra copies of non-named enemies (2 generic sahuagin become 4). For enemies with PC classes, you could "optimize" their choices (archetypes, feats and skills), maybe even adding things the PCs aster weak against.

[KarlBob]

Note: Please read "aster", above, as "are".

[Reebo Kesh]

Thanks Karl Bob. It seems that the AP is definitely made for a party of 4 so at least with Book 3 I can scale things up to challenge them.

[KarlBob]

You're welcome. With experienced players, even a party of four sometimes needs adjustments.

[Matthew Shurboff]

I had a 2nd level Synthesis Summoner take down a CR5 Eel single handedly. Luckily only two of my party are experienced players, but I do both increase monster count and add Advanced Templates to some or all. I am running a party of 7.

[lokidr]

Challenging a group has more to do with how enemies are used than what enemies are. Guns are close to useless underwater, bludgeoning attacks roll at half damage with -2 attack. The Sahuagin of Mancatcher Cove know their lair and how to use it. If they focus on one character at a time, probably that undine, they should be able to overwhelm them. If the first group runs, they stack up in the next group. With their speed and the size of those caverns, they should be able to alpha-strike and take someone down. Remember that the adventures were officially written for 4 characters so adding 50% monsters is appropriate (with equivalent treasure).

On the other hand, are the players happy? Many people don't want much challenge much of the time. As a GM, you see how fast the monsters HP goes down but those players see only their own damage. As long as the players FEEL like they are in danger there is probably enough of a challenge.

[GM Wulfson]

As has been suggested earlier I would add at least 50% more of the unnamed monsters i.e. 4 becomes 6, etc...
With solo monsters add, at least, the Advanced template or consider giving them full hit points (or both).
For NPC's with class levels try adding another level or two.

[WhtKnt]

As the others have said. With my group, I find that adding a couple of levels to NPCs helps tremendously, and increasing monster numbers by about 50%, or making a specimen "advanced." OTOH, my online group of six is doing well to handle things just as written.

[WhtKnt]

If it helps, my off-line group currently consists of:

Half-elf monk 5
Human rogue (knife master) 5
Elf fighter 3 (two-weapon fighter)/rogue (swashbuckler) 2
Human magus 4/rogue 1
Human barbarian (sea reaver) 5
Human bard (sea singer) 5
Half-orc witch (scarred witch doctor) 5

Sometimes it is difficult to challenge them.

Spoiler:

For example, in the mutiny, Plugg and Scourge went down fairly quickly. The sea reaver took Plugg overboard and simply held him under until Plugg drowned. Even engaged in combat, the barbarian can hold his breath for an incredible 34 rounds, so he just had to outlast Plugg.

The sea reaver can go underwater and stay there for 3 and a half-minutes (7 minutes if not engaged in combat). The monk has ridiculous AC (21 normally, but rises to 25 if he activates his ki defense). The fighter/rogue's player rolls ungodly high numbers (critting about 50% of the time). Eh. It's all about having fun, anyway.

[Wiggz]

lokidr wrote:

On the other hand, are the players happy? Many people don't want much challenge much of the time. As a GM, you see how fast the monsters HP goes down but those players see only their own damage. As long as the players FEEL like they are in danger there is probably enough of a challenge.

Excellent piece of advice.

[KarlBob]

Another method of increasing the difficulty is to add Mythic ranks/tiers to some enemies (usually the boss of each dungeon). If the PCs aren't Mythic, you might not need to add as many Mythic ranks/tiers as the conversion rules suggest.

[StandAndFight]

the most important aspect is to KNOW YOUR PLAYERS. that having been said, I ran this campaign for my group and it remains as one their most memorable campaigns as i added many personal touches as someone versed in the history of piracy

[deathbydice]

Usually, what makes the fights with larger parties slightly unfair is that the players' actions increase massively, especially against single targets. One opponent vs 6 sets of actions. Players fare less well against a dispersed group of opponents, who each have their own abilities and initiative...

And players usually do not fare all that well against magic, especially if they cannot readily identify the caster and/or counter him, they usually feel hard pressed. Say, have the caster hide in a group of pirates ( and have the PCs pick him out with a Perception check).

Exchange some spells or offer some minor casting support to larger ships or groups... usually a number of "greases" make any boarding action hazardous (try using it in the rigging)... or a number of "Glitterdusts"... or a single blindness or a nicely placed silence. I personally always wondered why the Chelian ships had so little chaplains/clerical support on them, even or especially in a commissarial function ( I mean, who controlled the ghouls on the Infernus ?).

Make sure that underwater combats follow the rules, and have players NOT communicating easily underwater... even if you have water breathing, you are still talking through the water in between you.... and message spells only work by transmission via the caster. Stealthy swimming is not really uncomplicated either. Or fighting on a constantly swamped deck with seas breaking over the sides - or it simply being slippery from spray. Or fighting in a tidepool, hip-deep in water (where simply ducking under the surface provides good safety from spells and missiles.

In general - make the environment work against the players if you want to apply pressure.

And yes, of course perhaps add some additional monsters or late-coming reinforcement to some fights