Goblin Squad Member
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This is probably not the best time to ask this with Alpha and the Landrush going on, but I was wondering something...
Are there going to be any threats, PvE specifically, that might threaten multiple Nations/Empires to the point they would have to band together? Other than escalation cycles maybe getting out of hand...
I realize that you wanted to shy away from "end game" things like saving countries/worlds, but it would be cool if you have something on the back burner.
Personally I hope you have a Tarrasque buried deep under the River Kingdoms waiting for its day to shine.
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Goblin Squad Member
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While that is cool, that isn't the type of threat I am referring to. I mean something like PvE armies, big groups of large monsters, or a Ancient Dragon or Tarrasque that can threaten multiple Settlements/Areas.
Obviously this wouldn't happen all the time, but maybe a major threat pops up once or twice a year.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I mean something like PvE armies, big groups of large monsters, or a Ancient Dragon or Tarrasque that can threaten multiple Settlements/Areas.
I agree it would be fun... though could cause problems if it weakened some areas while leaving their rivals untouched and thus free to move in and take over in the aftermath.
In any case, it'd probably be a good idea to hold off on introducing the 'Herald of Rogavug' for quite some time. There are plenty of lesser threats which could be introduced before building up to the Tarrasque... or any of the Spawn of Rogavug... or other 'Kaiju'.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree it would be fun... though could cause problems if it weakened some areas while leaving their rivals untouched and thus free to move in and take over in the aftermath.
Provided that the AI is either arbitrary in its target selection or else it can be influenced and the methods of such are well known, I don't see why this would be a problem. In my opinion it's not really an unfair advantage in either case; it's a completely fair advantage. Throwing wrenches into the machine every once in a while keeps the game interesting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One of the things that they have said they are going to do is run a Monster Control scheme, which allows special players to control big monsters in these kinds of events. At least I seem to remember reading about that (Nihimon, we need you!). I think it was one of the benefits for being an Alpha backer, no?
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Goblin Squad Member
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One of the things that they have said they are going to do is run a Monster Control scheme, which allows special players to control big monsters in these kinds of events. At least I seem to remember reading about that (Nihimon, we need you!). I think it was one of the benefits for being an Alpha backer, no?
Yes, Monster Play is an Alpha reward. However, I doubt it will include being able to drive the Tarrasque around. :]
The description to date has been more along the lines of 'you get to play a goblin during special events' or the like.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A quick summary iirc.
1. Monster Escalations perform the PvE equivalent:
i. player organized groups to drive these back ie not solo-able I guess
ii. act as neutral hex control when no players are controlling hexes
iii. cannon-fodder and some quest material
iv. require some management by player groups
2. Monster Cast
i. alpha players have this and there will be some events for this mentioned.
ii. devs want to stay clear of events where the whole descends and crashes the whole server.
3. Players are the major catastrophe
i. I think the dynamic of players is more central so that any chance of a natural disaster does not allow one group to decimate another group unfairly.
4. Dragons may one day be a sort of equivalent to titans in eve
i. These would be a huge expense but super powerful settlements might be able to have the development needed to hatch a dragon egg and raise it for a battle.
=
Personally I love the idea of dynamic weather that affects a region, different hexes perhaps changing in character due to a drought or a natural disaster, escalations from off-map such as a major NPC Army invading and attacking their nemesis aligned but befriending their players of the same alignment etc and of course the odd "awakening" or "act of god" thrown in as random events to shake up the map every so often. I'm fine with the devs using "pulleys and leavers behind the curtain" to perform tricks for "the actors out on stage in front of the curtain". :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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One of the things that they have said they are going to do is run a Monster Control scheme, which allows special players to control big monsters in these kinds of events. At least I seem to remember reading about that (Nihimon, we need you!). I think it was one of the benefits for being an Alpha backer, no?
I'm here! :)
Crowdforger Alpha Additional Benefits
All Crowdforger Alpha backers will be given the opportunity to take part in monster casting for Pathfinder Online. Monster casting is a pool of players from which we will draw participants in various monster-based events in the campaign. Participants will be able to play the roles of the monsters needed for the campaign event and will be given direction by the Goblinworks staff on playing these monsters. Being in the monster casting pool is currently the only way that players will be able to play monsters while playing Pathfinder Online. This is a special privilege and not a right—if it is abused by a member of the monster casting pool, this privilege will be taken away.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In the abstract I like the idea, but at the same time it does somewhat detract from players being the driving force that shapes the world. If through normal means and struggles, UNC wages a long war against TEO/T7V and pulls off a big win and takes over their spot(purely a hypothetical), it would seem out of place for a giant vampire army to steamroll them out of existence because they couldn't rally enough support in time. All that "meaningful player action" undone by a random NPC entity.
If the sleeping Tarrasque didn't threaten actual settlements, and roamed around so that the damage is spread out I think it'd be fine. Kind of like the old Sand Giants roaming the Oasis in EQ except perhaps a bit more of a threat.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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We call things like that "Formation-Class Monsters." No current visibility when we'll have all the systems, art, and AI to support that kind of thing, but they're certainly on the table (primarily for big dragons and such, though the newer bestiaries do have a nice selection of kaiju and Rovagug-spawn).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just out of interest, I remember the Tarrasque from one of my D&D monster manuals. Does this mean the Tarrasque is copyrighted for D&D settings so Pathfinder may not use it?
Pathfinder can and does use the Tarrasque. Indeed, he's a fairly major part of the lore of Golarion... greatest of all the spawn of Rogavug, destroyer of the flying Shory city of Kho, laid waste to the empire of Ninshabur... et cetera.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... et cetera.
For some reason, the first thing that came into my head: "Sir Robin the not-quite-so-brave-as-Sir-Launcelot, who had nearly fought the Dragon of Agnor, who had nearly stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol, and who had personally wet himself at the Battle of Badon Hill".
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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I believe the Tarrasque is copyrighted and only available to Pathfinder tabletop through the OGL, so we can't use it in PFO. However, as noted, many other Paizo-created kaiju and Rovagug-spawn giant monsters have been added in the later bestiaries, so those should be available to us.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks CB, I figured a lot of those classic D&D monsters were copyrighted.
Trademarked. You can't copyright a fictional character/race, but you can declare that it is a trademark associated with your company. Wizards of the Coast has done that with various creatures (e.g. Beholders, Mind Flayers, Displacer Beasts, et cetera) which they argue 'originated' with D&D and are associated with it in the public mind... thus making use of those creatures by anyone else an effort to trade on the reputation of D&D (similar to another soft drink company copying Coca-colas logo).
They wouldn't be able to do that with the Tarrasque because the name actually comes from a mythical 'dragon' in France. At that, I doubt they'd be able to enforce trademark on all of the critters they are claiming it for because most of them are based at least partially on earlier works... but generally other RPG companies have just gone along with it as not worth the hassle.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks for the explanation, guys. So it is ok to use typical D&D monsters for tabletop through the OGL, but when you would want to visualize such a monster in for instance PFO or maybe Paizo Gamespace in the future, it would be a problem?
I am going to look up those Rovagug and kaiju. :)
When you talk about Wizards trying to "claim" some of those mythical monsters, it reminds me of what Disney is trying to do with princesses from fairy tales, like Cinderella, the Sleeping Beauty and Snow White.
Every time they refer in their adds to these as "real Disney princesses" I cringe a bit. I know they popularized them big time, but c'mon! (I have a 6 year old).
There you go, something to point to outside of D&D.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and this is not an attempt at legal advice :)
I think it is slightly more complicated, since D&D may have established unique lore that is Wizards of the Coast IP for a particular creature. I am not very familiar with the Tarasque (I think it would only come down to appearance and some of the more unique abilities), so I will use Tiamat as my example. While there is a mythologic reference for Tiamat as a chaos monster from Babylonian mythology, there is no mythologic reason for the D&D interpretation of Tiamat as a 5-headed dragon, with each head being a different chromatic dragon. Which is why Pathfinder does not do much of anything (see here for James Jacobs explanation and position).
