Ziether |
So my GM plays all opponents as smart, regardless of their background, ability scores, etc. They NEVER provoke attacks of opportunity, because any activity that would do so is an action he absolutely refuses to take. Thus doesn't feel like how the characters would likely act, and it makes gameplay less fun for the PCs. How do I talk to him?
Kobold Catgirl |
Point out to him that making every enemy tactically skilled, even the stupid ones, cheapens the danger posed by smart villains. Hobgoblins and devils should be smart and careful. Goblins, orcs and demons should fight like morons.
If he thinks it makes them too easy, tell him to just add half again the number of combatants. ;D
Claxon |
I'm not sure I agree with this concept that intelligent creatures somehow lack the capacity to avoid AoO.
Personally, I think only animals or creatures of int <2 should be too unintelligent to avoid AoO.
Players, even players with dumped int, likely still take a 5ft step to avoid provoking, or walk around an enemy's threatened zone rather than walking straight through it. It doesn't require a high level of intelligence to know to avoid getting too close or to know to not do certain things that provoke unless its absolutely necessary.
Talk to your GM, but I'm guessing he's probably of a similar opinion to me.
Now, Kobold cleaver does have a point that certain races are stated in fluff to take tactically "less clever" options such as goblins. I can think of examples from adventure paths where the notes for the fight including having goblins get distracted, or spend the round laughing at the misfortune of another goblin or something like that.
But, Goblins don't even have an intelligence penalty, nor a wisdom penalty. Either of which could be argued as to why a creature shouldn't avoid AoO. So, this is more of a cultural issue for goblins.
Ultiamtely, I think you just have a difference of opinion.
Gregory Connolly |
Generally nobody provokes attacks of opportunity unless you make them. If you have a bunch of polearm users with Lunge you have a valid complaint, if nobody has reach you are situation normal. Mindless undead and constructs are about the only enemies I expect to be able to outmaneuver without working for it.
alientude |
Point out to him that making every enemy tactically skilled, even the stupid ones, cheapens the danger posed by smart villains. Hobgoblins and devils should be smart and careful. Goblins, orcs and demons should fight like morons.
Why should demons fight like morons? Of the 19 demons in Bestiaries 1-3, only 2 have an Intelligence score less than 10 (Dretch and Schir). Most of them have 14+.
redcelt32 |
There are lots of creatures that would not stop to concern themselves about an AoO. Trolls, barbarians, ghouls (in fact most undead), wolverines, etc. Many predatory animals would be willing to risk it if they thought their speed would let them avoid such an attack (2 int). So I think the OP has a semi-valid point here.
More importantly is the fact that in order to maintain immersion and not have things seem like "GM vs players", NPCs and monsters should almost always act according to their nature. Whether this be an NPC ranger attacking a weaker favored enemy first or a troll locking onto their opponent and not switching during combat just because a spellcaster is dazed or exposed and convenient.
One of the first things I do as a GM is document the weaknesses of major NPCs and monsters. I do this because it is rewarding and exciting to players to discover and exploit these weaknesses. Maybe the BBEG is afraid of fire (a la The Hound from GoT), or maybe he is overly arrogant and never makes a backup plan because he doesn't believe anyone can make him run or defeat him. Whatever the case, these are important and encourage the PCs to use their brains and pay attention in order to beat them more effectively.
While it is simpler and easier for a GM to merely play every monster/NPC as his own character and with that level of effectiveness, I think the game suffers from the player perspective enough that the GM's effort to play encounters differently is worthwhile.
Talk to your GM about the fact that it seems to you that all his encounters fight the same. Maybe he has not noticed this, especially if he has made them different on paper and in his mind in ways that are just not getting transmitted effectively to the PCs. I find this sometimes happens with plots and clues. I know about them so I think the hints and clues should be clear to the PCs, until we get far along in the story and realize they are completely in the dark.
Kryptik |
Even animals know that proximity is dangerous. I was out in a field at the edge of the woods one day when a fox burst out of the hedge. Even in a full run, it made a split second decision to arc around me, keeping at least 6 feet of space between it and me at all times. This is especially true of predatory and pack animals such as wolves and lions. Have you ever seen videos of wolves taking down an elk bull, or lions taking down a water buffalo? You will see they move very carefully to avoid an aoo from the horns. And if a wolf can do it, so can an Orc.
Blueluck |
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I have two distinct opinions on this matter.
What you should say to your GM
"So my GM plays all opponents as smart, regardless of their background, ability scores, etc. It doesn't feel like how the characters would likely act, and it makes gameplay less fun for [me]."
See that, you know what to say! If you feel it's un-fun or unrealistic to have all enemies fight smart, tell the GM. As Kobold Cleaver suggested, he GM can always use numbers (or gear, or hit points, or terrain) to make fights challenging instead of using tactics.
What I would like to say to you about attacks of opportunity
Almost no enemy is bad enough at fighting to provoke attacks of opportunity unless it is to their advantage to do so. Many animals with intelligence scores of 2 (wolves, lions, dinosaurs) are full-time professional predators, and darn good at it! If they weren't good at killing things, they'd have starved to death long ago. Human combatants are similar, in that even the dumbest fighter knows how to fight, maybe not how to read or do math, but how to avoid getting stabbed in the back during a fight.
The only time enemies should provoke attacks of opportunity are:
- When it benefits them. (e.g. It may be worth provoking an attack from the non-flanking rogue to finish off the wounded caster before another spell gets cast.)
- When they don't have enough information to avoid it. (e.g. Invisible PC, Snap Shot, concealment)
- When they're mindless. (e.g. An ooze or zombie who has already chosen a target may ignore other enemies, or a frenzied animal may ignore danger.)
- When the PCs force them to. (e.g. Cornering or surrounding a spellcaster, Come And Get Me, Greater Trip)
Ciaran Barnes |
My long-time GM habitually played his monsters as intelligent as he is (which is pretty smart), regardless of it's actual intelligence. I understand how it gets frustrating after a while. I suggest offering him $20. Or s'mores. Or blackmail. If all of those fail, then you should have an honest one-on-one conversation with him. As an alternative, realize that he deserves to have fun doing his job, and accept the conditions as a quality of his play style.
Kobold Catgirl |
Kobold Cleaver wrote:Point out to him that making every enemy tactically skilled, even the stupid ones, cheapens the danger posed by smart villains. Hobgoblins and devils should be smart and careful. Goblins, orcs and demons should fight like morons.Why should demons fight like morons? Of the 19 demons in Bestiaries 1-3, only 2 have an Intelligence score less than 10 (Dretch and Schir). Most of them have 14+.
Let me clarify, sorry. Demons should fight more recklessly and "fun-loving". An ice devil will hang back and supervise, while a marilith will charge in and start a-murderin'. They can still be clever, but not as well organized.
Demons just got pigeonholed into "morons" because they were coupled with orcs and goblins.
But hang on—how are these guys avoiding AoOs? Are they refusing to risk maneuvers or the like? Or are they just not running right next to PCs? Because the latter is perfectly logical, even for animals. I'd actually be annoyed if my GM was having them take easy-to-avoid AoOs. Orcs are dumb, but they aren't suicidal.
Shimnimnim |
One thing about NPCs playing smart is that it forces PCs to play smart too. And not just smart, but calculating and cold. People are motivated by more than victory, but by emotions, beliefs (false or otherwise), inhibitions, etc. There is a large camp of people who believe that roleplaying shouldn't end once battle starts, to put it one way. There are a couple articles I found a while back that talk about it:
http://www.giantitp.com/articles/XbsQgS9YYu9g3HZBAGE.html
http://www.giantitp.com/articles/tll307KmEm4H9k6efFP.html
Ascalaphus |
It's not like you "deserve" X AoOs per day. That's not the design purpose of AoOs, to grant people more attacks as a way of fighting.
AoOs are a punishment for doing stuff that nobody should normally be doing: turning your back on your opponent and walking away, or dropping your defenses to cast a spell while there's a guy with a sword standing next to you.
James Risner Owner - D20 Hobbies |
So my GM plays all opponents ... NEVER provoke attacks of opportunity ... less fun for the PCs. How do I talk to him?
Get a new GM or change your attitude.
I don't see any valid reason your GM should be provoking AoO from opponents unless he is trying to make the encounter easier because he is trying to avoid a TPK.