Hello everyone,
I have been working on a Paladin archetype with a built in evil companion. Any feedback is appreciated, either on theme or mechanics.
It's an interesting concept. I quite like it in theory. For the most part I think it's statted well but I think there are some issues;
Paladin v weapon conflict - you might want to reconsider this mechanic. At a glance I think the paladin and the weapon would be at odd almost all the time. This could result in severely hampering the character periodically. While the paladin may win most of these conflicts, law of averages suggests that he'll lose fairly often too. Maybe a more passive penalty to represent the internal conflict?
Shadows of justice - I think you underestimate just how powerful this ability is. Paladin smite is one of the most OP abilities in the game. Granting it to all allies for 1 min will absolutely trivialise almost any CR appropriate encounter.
Your 20th level capstone is again a massive power jump. I'd look to some of the other classes to find a more balanced approach. Having said that, not too many campaigns reach level 20 play.
It's an interesting concept. I quite like it in theory. For the most part I think it's statted well but I think there are some issues;
Paladin v weapon conflict - you might want to reconsider this mechanic. At a glance I think the paladin and the weapon would be at odd almost all the time. This could result in severely hampering the character periodically. While the paladin may win most of these conflicts, law of averages suggests that he'll lose fairly often too. Maybe a more passive penalty to represent the internal conflict?
I can see what you mean, however half of the fun in this archetype for me was the Lawful Evil weapon working with the paladin on purpose to try to slowly lead him into temptation and a fall.
Shadows of justice - I think you underestimate just how powerful this ability is. Paladin smite is one of the most OP abilities in the game. Granting it to all allies for 1 min will absolutely trivialise almost any CR appropriate encounter.
This is simply a renamed Aura of Justice which a normal paladin gets at the same level (11th).
Your 20th level capstone is again a massive power jump. I'd look to some of the other classes to find a more balanced approach. Having said that, not too many campaigns reach level 20 play.
I do agree that Illuminated Rebirth is stronger than Holy Champion, but honestly it is at 20th and so *shrug*. I will consider changing it but honestly I am not sure it is too powerful for a 20th level ability.
Thank you very much for your feedback. *Bow*
I can't believe I never noticed that Aura of Justice existed! Mind you I don't think my table has seen a paladin since 2nd edition days.
Might have to give one a spin next opportunity
I looked over the build and it seems pretty solid. Given that the other auras are transformed into something that benefits you and your weapon, Shadow of Justice (Aura of Justice) doesn't really seem to fit anymore. You might consider reworking it so that it doesn't affect your allies but does something interesting with your weapon.
As for the final ability, it is basically the paladin cap, plus a holy avenger, plus more cool stuff. Overkill. I could see the paladin cap and the built in holy avenger, but not the other stuff you added on. That is just my opinion though.
Otherwise, very interesting take on the paladin as a redeemer of a long lost soul.
I have made some changes to the Dread-Borne.
1.) Added a line to associates to make it clear that simply being bonded to a Dread-Burden does not cause a paladin to need Atonement/Fall.
2.) Completely rewrote the Shadows of Justice ability.
I am going to leave the capstone as is for now.
I do appreciate all of the feedback and everyones responses.
The link at the top is updated. I would love some feedback about the new Shadows of Justice.
I hope you all enjoy.
Any thoughts?
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Love the concept.
I like the new Shadows of Justice - it definitely fits the other auras better.
Paladin v weapon conflict - you might want to reconsider this mechanic. At a glance I think the paladin and the weapon would be at odd almost all the time. This could result in severely hampering the character periodically. While the paladin may win most of these conflicts, law of averages suggests that he'll lose fairly often too. Maybe a more passive penalty to represent the internal conflict?I can see what you mean, however half of the fun in this archetype for me was the Lawful Evil weapon working with the paladin on purpose to try to slowly lead him into temptation and a fall.
Which is a great concept. The problem is that the ego mechanic potentially allows for the paladin to fall for failing a will save. If a personality conflict occurs and the paladin fails a will save vs ego, the Dread Burden can force the paladin into combat (eg against a good or innocent person) or to to surrender (allowing innocents to be hurt). IIRC there's some debate over whether breaking the code under compulsion is grounds for a fall, but Atonement has a clause for forgiveness of evil acts committed under compulsion so I could definitely see this being a problem.
Love the concept.
I like the new Shadows of Justice - it definitely fits the other auras better.
Which is a great concept. The problem is that the ego mechanic potentially allows for the paladin to fall for failing a will save. If a personality conflict occurs and the paladin fails a will save vs ego, the Dread Burden can force the paladin into combat (eg against a good or innocent person) or to to surrender (allowing innocents to be hurt). IIRC there's some debate over whether breaking the code under compulsion is grounds for a fall, but Atonement has a clause for forgiveness of evil acts committed under compulsion so I could definitely see this being a problem.Paladin v weapon conflict - you might want to reconsider this mechanic. At a glance I think the paladin and the weapon would be at odd almost all the time. This could result in severely hampering the character periodically. While the paladin may win most of these conflicts, law of averages suggests that he'll lose fairly often too. Maybe a more passive penalty to represent the internal conflict?I can see what you mean, however half of the fun in this archetype for me was the Lawful Evil weapon working with the paladin on purpose to try to slowly lead him into temptation and a fall.
Ah, I see what you mean. I thought all an intelligent item could do was turn itself off, however after rereading the Intelligent item section I understand.
I will have to think about this. I also need to add a blurb about the paladin not acquiring a negative level from simply having her dread burden.
My first thought is that a paladin with either a 12 charisma or a +1 cloak of resistance will only fail his ego save on a one until level 11. It gets harder after 11 but honestly for most levels a Paladin will need between a 2-4 to succeed on the ego check with next to no investment.
However, I do understand the concern.