Shares instead of 1 plunder per port.

[Mathius]

I am going to be using Fire as She Bears instead of the SnS ship rules. I figure that a standard cargo ship will be 6 hull sections, 5 rigging sections, broad, and made of reinforced oak. A ship this size can carry 175 tons but will probably limit itself to about 100 tons. A ship of this size has crew of 33 but will double it to 66 so that it can run 24 hours a day.

Assuming that the PCs take the ship and all of its resources that could amount to 17k for the ship, 10K for the plunder, and 5k for the crew. That 32k. Adding gear and ransom for officers plus a few cannons or other useful ship gear we can easily approach 40K for a single cargo ship.

Giving up a single point of plunder for crew is not enough.

I would willing to say that a cargo ship that did not have trap or other surprise waiting would be an ideal encounter and would be considered a triple treasure as such but even so I do not know know how much treasure that would be for CR 6-8 encounter.

The opposing crew and cannons will not count towards the CR since they are countered by the PCs crew and cannons but officers and guards would build up to a CR 6-8.

I need to figure out the crew share should be in order to bring the treasure back into line to what is expected for an encounter of this difficulty.

[KarlBob]

Mathius wrote:

Giving up a single point of plunder for crew is not enough.

I would willing to say that a cargo ship that did not have trap or other surprise waiting would be an ideal encounter and would be considered a triple treasure as such but even so I do not know know how much treasure that would be for CR 6-8 encounter.

The opposing crew and cannons will not count towards the CR since they are countered by the PCs crew and cannons but officers and guards would build up to a CR 6-8.

I need to figure out the crew share should be in order to bring the treasure back into line to what is expected for an encounter of this difficulty.

I agree. Shares complicate things a little, but they're a great way to control profits. Prize ships aren't guaranteed profit, either, as the PCs should know.

Conan: The Pirate Isles, from Mongoose Publishing, contains four sample systems for dividing plunder. The Barachan Pirates give one share to each crewmember, and three shares to each officer. Among the Black Corsairs, the captain distributes plunder as he or she sees fit. The Red Brotherhood assigns one share to each crew member, one share to each officer, and reserves four shares for the common good. The Zingaran Freebooters give one half share to each "probationary" crew member, one share to each full crewmember, and four shares to each officer.

Speaking of cargo capacity, I also like the idea from this thread that spoils can be divided into treasure and plunder. Treasure has much higher "monetary density" than plunder. Whereas one point of plunder, such as grain or dried fish, weighs 20,000 lbs./10 tons, one point of treasure, such as ivory statuary or uncut gemstones, weighs only 2,000 lbs./one ton. This allows small- to mid-sized FaSB ships, lacking the 300,000 lb./150 ton cargo capacity of an S&S sailing ship, to make a profit by choosing the right targets.

[Mathius]

Thank you so much.

I just realized the 108000 pounds is not 10 plunder but a mere 5. This make the ship itself the most valuable thing to steal by far.

Since FaSB ships carry less I think I will go with 3 class of plunder.

Plunder 5 tons 1k GP
Loot 1 Ton 1k GP
Swag 500 lbs 1k GP

Since swag is 2 GP to the pound and PCs sell things for half in general then anything that cost more the 5GP/pound is worth selling individually. That number could easily be 10 or 20 GP to the pound since the price for plunder is a bulk price and not per item.

Most equipment, arms, and armor would be swag and it would be nice to just make a pile of it all and sell instead of selling 100 cutlass and 100 sets of leather armor just call it 2 points of swag.

Maybe a rule that on a day in port they can sell 1 unit of pluder, loot, or swag. Or they can sell 5 individual items.

[Jenner2057]

We're nearing the end of Book 3 and have been doing a similar thing. We initially started with the "1 plunder = 10 tons" but that got very limiting very quickly (we use FaSBs ships as well). So we read again and the DM has quite a lot of leeway on size and weight of plunder. Lots of folks point out Plugg's initial chest of spices containing a point of plunder, for instance (that's one heavy chest if it's 10 tons!)

So our DM started using different levels of plunder as well.

Heavy - 10,000 lb / point
Moderate - 5,000 lb / point
Light - 1,000 lb / point
Valuables - 500 lb / point

It makes the book keeping a little more complex, but it's more interesting and varied.

We also use the Ultimate Campaign downtime system, so he also allows us to directly convert 1 point of Heavy plunder into 50 points of Goods for downtime activity. (1 plunder = about 1000 gp; 1 Goods = 20 gp; 1 plunder = 50 Goods)
This kind of makes sense if you think that Heavy plunder is going to be holds full of lumber, furniture or big crates/barrels of foodstuff. Shrug.
He's also told us that if/when we switch to UCamp Kingdom rules down the road, 1 Heavy plunder will directly convert to 1 Build Point.

Last note on plunder:
I'm not sure if others have been doing it this way, but for each point of plunder our party sells in town, we give one to the crew as payment. That means each day in port TWO points are removed from our hold... one sold and one given as payment.
This was after we looked at the shares numbers. Take a typical 8-4-1 arrangement (captain - officers - crew). A captain (8) and 5 PC officers (5x4=20) should get about the same plunder shares as 28 crewmembers.
This is how we've been doing it and we're only slightly behind the wealth by level curve (I also think this is more due to a 6-man table than giving out more plunder to crew). I believe the AP expects the lion's share of PC wealth to come from the party adventuring more so than pillaging ships.

[Mathius]

I think I like 8-4-1. Some crew might better then others and get double or triple shares.

I am thinking of removing much of the wealth from the non sand box elements but they are the way to gain levels. Pure piracy may be lucrative but since it does not advance the story much then no exp there. This will encourage them to do both things.

If they spend to long in the sandbox the story will come to them. If they do not sandbox they will high level but cash poor.

I like your plunder system. Valuables would be function equipment and weapons and armor. Masterwork and magical items are best sold on their own as will be many are objects.

I am not sure they will want UC stuff but it makes sense.

[KarlBob]

My party will probably mutiny against Plugg this Saturday, so I still have the chance to decide on a plunder system. I'll talk it over with my players, but I think two or three tiers might be a happy medium between "1 pt. = 10 tons, except when it doesn't," and a many-tiers system.

Establishing a conversion rate to Goods is a great idea. I think I might use the downtime building system for customizing cabins aboard ship, as well as fitting out a pirate stronghold. If a character just wants to hang some trophies on the wall, I won't charge Goods for that. On the other hand, if our alchemist wants to install a lab, that seems like a big enough change from a typical cabin to cost some Goods.