Quick advice: Magnimar pre-Skinsaw Murders


Rise of the Runelords


So we're wrapping up Burnt Offerings, and while I expect my players to deal with the Bhargest that's left there, but they have expressed interest in visiting Magnimar, possibly to pick up two new PCs joining the group. Ok, fine, I can roll with that.

So assuming the murders in Sandpoint have not started yet, what would they likely run into in Magnimar? They're likely to look for Aldern Foxglove, so if the book is to be understood, his house is currently boarded up and ransacked by the Cult? This description comes late in the book, after the murders and after Misgivings, but is it true before those?

My concern is them finding his house, seeing it abandoned, and then running off to track down any possible lead about Aldern long before the murders start and they start getting notes from him.


I recently came to the same situation in my game. I made the decision largely to showcase The greedier side of Magnimar. Showing the mayor taking a bribe for a development deal, the sczarni doing their thing in the seedier areas of town, etc. additionally, one of my backup plans if the PCs went to Foxglove's townhouse is that Faceless Horrors were placed there. These creatures can take the visage of a creature. They could just as easily look like a butler or maid, telling the PCs that Master Foxglove was either out of town or indisposed. No need to tip the hat just yet. If you wanted to have it ransacked, another option could be to plant a note demanding payment or something. It doesn't matter how they get there, or why, but the book hinges on getting the party to Foxglove Manor.


slayer_of_gellcor wrote:
I recently came to the same situation in my game. I made the decision largely to showcase The greedier side of Magnimar. Showing the mayor taking a bribe for a development deal, the sczarni doing their thing in the seedier areas of town, etc. additionally, one of my backup plans if the PCs went to Foxglove's townhouse is that Faceless Horrors were placed there. These creatures can take the visage of a creature. They could just as easily look like a butler or maid, telling the PCs that Master Foxglove was either out of town or indisposed. No need to tip the hat just yet. If you wanted to have it ransacked, another option could be to plant a note demanding payment or something. It doesn't matter how they get there, or why, but the book hinges on getting the party to Foxglove Manor.

Good advice, but I caution you not to jump the gun. The PCs should have a chance to learn about the murders before being directed towards Foxglove Manor, or else the entire reveal is wasted. And I probably would just have a butler at Foxglove's townhouse let the PCs know he isn't around right now; faceless stalkers there would likely derail the entire chapter for you and your PCs; getting them back on track to discover the murders would take backseat to the PCs figuring out who these faceless stalkers that attacked them are, and what happened to Aldern. Though, ultimately, they should find out what happened to Aldern, doing it this way would, in my opinion, significantly change the theme of the chapter from that of a murder mystery/Lovecraftian horror tale into one of missing persons and inner city intrigue.


Just something to consider - the first book of Shattered Star (the first two, actually) could very easily be played in Mangimar at about that level with very little adjustment. They're set in the seedier parts of the city and its environs and even have a Runelord tie-in to maintain the feel of the campaign... I'm fairly certain that if I were to re-run it, I'd seriously consider using that material and having the PC's spend as much time in Magnimar as in Sandpoint during the early-going.


It depends on your players. I can certainly see running Shards of Sin instead of Burnt Offerings as Book 1 of a revised Runelords game, and basing the rest of RotRL in Magnimar. It's kind of a pity, because Burnt Offerings is one of the best-written modules I've ever read or run!

A big problem I had in my aborted Runelords game was that the PCs never connected with Sandpoint, and wanted to get the heck out of that podunk town ASAFP. I kept dragging them back, and they started resenting it. I ran a long side-quest in Kaer Maga afterHook Mountain Massacre, ending with the PCs getting teleported to the Devil's Plateau overlooking Sandpoint-- and there was an audible groan at the table. Honestly, I don't think they would have particularly cared if giants sacked the town! We ended up going on hiatus for four months, and then ended the campaign there, never getting to Fortress of the Stone Giants.

If I ever run Runelords again (which I would LOVE to do), I'll need to make a bigger effort of making the players love the town. One thing that could help would be to improve Sandpoint's market score-- access to a bigger magic item marketplace was the primary motivation of the PCs moving to Magnimar. I was thinking of increasing the CL of a few of the Sandpoint NPCs, and allow the PCs to hire them to craft items at a reduced price.


Another thing to consider is that the Seven are currently murdering greedy folk at Xanesha's behest. The party could easily stumble upon a murder scene.

To my mind the two halves of Chapter Two are tenuously linked at best. Seeding the story with the murders of other greedy individuals in Magnimar (check out the Skinsaw Murders thread for Xanesha's list) solidifies the link between the two places and is also likely to throw the scent off Aldern somewhat.

CJ


Haladir wrote:
It depends on your players. I can certainly see running Shards of Sin instead of Burnt Offerings as Book 1 of a revised Runelords game, and basing the rest of RotRL in Magnimar. It's kind of a pity, because Burnt Offerings is one of the best-written modules I've ever read or run!

Oh I would never advocate skipping out on Burnt Offerings as I agree with you about the quality of the adventure... it just seemed to me that it would take very little re-writing to fit Shards of Sin in as a series of encounters to expose PC's to Mangimar in the fashion the OP wished. Again, there's even the Runelords tie-in which would serve as superb foreshadowing for the PC's.

I've often thought about trying to tie these two in so that they could be played concurrently as a sort of super adventure topping out at 20.


My personal distaste for Shattered Star aside, I'm not lacking for content in Magnimar. That's easy, I can keep my players busy for months if I need to.

The problem I'm trying to solve is keeping them from choosing to visit Aldern's townhouse.

Being that the murders have not happened yet, my understanding is that Aldern's Townhouse is currently ransacked and boarded up and has been for weeks, but NOT housing the Faceless Stalkers, as those are sent there much later when Justice Ironbriar knows the PCs by name and that they killed Aldern.

And even running an adventure just to keep them busy puts the problem off for a few sessions, because they'd no doubt either stop halfway through to go visit, or just do it after.

The best I've really found is just letting my players know they can go to Magnimar to sell items and whatnot, but they need to be aware that if I push them away from some areas they may try and investigate, they just have to roll with it for the sake of not breaking the plot. Which they are alright with, but it's really the first time I've had to pull out the "make sure you don't go off the rails" card.


This may sound simplistic but let them go to Magnimar and if you get even a hint that they plan to visit the Misgivings - which is not technically in the city - have them receive a note/messenger telling them that they are urgently needed back in Sandpoibt (due to the murders)... maybe have them encounter the farm on the way. That might get their heads turned around a bit and their focus away from Aldern...


I'm struggling to see the issue of having the faceless stalkers there. They can assume the shape of a medium humanoid. The PCs arrive. They're greeted by a butler. He banters briefly and steers them back to Sandpoint.


Story Archer wrote:
if you get even a hint that they plan to visit the Misgivings - which is not technically in the city

Townhouse, not Misgivings. Two different places. Misgivings is meant to be visited after the murder, and then the go to the Townhouse in Magnimar. But if they're already in Magnimar and decide to seek out Aldern's address, they'd end up finding the ransacked Townhouse long before the murders happen, they get the notes that put them on the trail of the Skinsaw Man, and are led to Misgivings, which subverts the entire adventure.

slayer_of_gellcor wrote:
I'm struggling to see the issue of having the faceless stalkers there.

Because like I said above, according to the book, the Faceless Stalkers are sent to the house by Ironbriar specifically to ambush and kill the PCs. But this happens after they've gone through the investigation so he actually knows they exist. If they visit Magnimar before the book even starts, Ironbriar has no reason to know the PCs even exist, and there's no reason for the Faceless Stalkers to be there. And also, the timeline leads us to assume that even at this point in the adventure, the Townhouse has been ransacked and boarded up for weeks. So no butler greeting them, because the house looks like it's been raided and abandoned.


Askren wrote:

Because like I said above, according to the book, the Faceless Stalkers are sent to the house by Ironbriar specifically to ambush and kill the PCs. But this happens after they've gone through the investigation so he actually knows they exist. If they visit Magnimar before the book even starts, Ironbriar has no reason to know the PCs even exist, and there's no reason for the Faceless Stalkers to be there. And also, the timeline leads us to assume that even at this point in the adventure, the Townhouse has been ransacked and boarded up for weeks. So no butler greeting them, because the house looks like it's been raided and abandoned.

I suppose if you do not want to change the written story in the AP: I can now understand that. I, however, would advise to keep the story looser and plan at least a handful of contingencies to to get the PCs back on track. This is particularly important with mysteries, where it is, in my experience, incredibly easy for players to get focused on dead ends "Jarvis Stoot is back from the grave, I know he is!", or think of end-arounds that the book didn't anticipate, "Well, let's just go to Magnimar to ask for assistance in the investigation. Belor asked for help after the Goblin attack, why wouldn't we ask for help now? And if this Justice Ironbriar character gives us a hard time, we'll give him what for!", or just don't take the bait on the story, "Mmm...I'm not a detective, so I'm going to leave investigating these murders to you, sheriff. I'm way more interested in what I'm hearing about Kaer Maga."

Just my opinion, but the goal is to have fun. If the story, the rules, or the group get in the way of everyone's fun: change them.


Forget that the townhouse has been boarded up for weeks. You're going to have to change the AP at this point to make things fit or else deal with a different problem. I was having some trouble with this at first -- but really, the AP is more of a guideline than a set-in-stone order of events. Once you realize this and begin to adapt the story to your events, instead of forcing your events to fit into the story (it will never work out), you'll be much happier as GM.

I advise that the townhouse is not boarded up, and quite possibly, Aldern is at home, as the PCs expect him to be, since your murders haven't yet begun. Give some time, maybe run an adventure on the side (maybe the Chopper's Isle adventure from Wayfinder #7), then have the murders start afterwards so to make the timeline fit. Then you can simply adjust the later townhouse encounter so that it has been ransacked (by the Seven, of course) but isn't as run-down, boarded up, and ramshackle as it is described in the AP.


If you don't want to change what's in the AP, just have it boarded up and ransacked. The PCs won't know why the house is boarded up. They may try to investigate, they may not. If they start getting too invested in figuring it out, have an urgent message from Hemlock arrive, requesting their presence in Sandpoint.

For my game I ditched the idea of the Townhouse being boarded up entirely. After Aldern became a ghoul, the cult ransacked the building, put the first floor back in order in the event of visitors, and then setup 4 faceless stalkers (as Aldern, Iesha and two servants) up inside to keep up appearances and prevent any of his neighbors from thinking anything was wrong.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Rise of the Runelords / Quick advice: Magnimar pre-Skinsaw Murders All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rise of the Runelords