I suppose some of the marines based there might have stripped their insignia for the operations. But that does seem like more of a special forces thing.
But the reports that the troops that are in control of Crimea are Russian military seem pretty solid, despite Putin's lies about them.
And here we have one of two options:
1:Putin is sooooo stupid that he officially declared russian military forces unlawful militants,which paints on them crosshairs the size of Crimea,or2:He did not lie.Somehow.
How?We aren' told.Yet,hopefully.Possibilities are endless!
In other news:In Moscow,"March of Peace"demonstration against russian involvement in Ukraine somehow ends without a single arrest.
That's what happens when you actually notify autorities beforehand,as required by law.
Also MUCH more people this time.In thousands,i'd say.
In other news:In Moscow,"March of Peace"demonstration against russian involvement in Ukraine somehow ends without a single arrest.
That's what happens when you actually notify autorities beforehand,as required by law.
Also MUCH more people this time.In thousands,i'd say.
Any law that requires a permit to protest is to hell wrong, and as a socialist you should no doubt oppose it. Not saying that's a uniquely russian thing; we have those here in Sweden as well, and I know they exist in the US, though at least in my country you can't get arrested just for attending a permitless protest (just for organizing one, and even that's very rare). Getting harrassed by the police is another thing though.
But I can't fathom why a socialist would want that kind of state power over the people.
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The 'Russian troops' will be Ukrainian-russians from the Russian army gone home to take control. Meanwhile...russians secure their gas infrastructure inside Ukraine
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In other news:In Moscow,"March of Peace"demonstration against russian involvement in Ukraine somehow ends without a single arrest.
That's what happens when you actually notify autorities beforehand,as required by law.
Also MUCH more people this time.In thousands,i'd say.Any law that requires a permit to protest is to hell wrong, and as a socialist you should no doubt oppose it. Not saying that's a uniquely russian thing; we have those here in Sweden as well, and I know they exist in the US, though at least in my country you can't get arrested just for attending a permitless protest (just for organizing one, and even that's very rare). Getting harrassed by the police is another thing though.
But I can't fathom why a socialist would want that kind of state power over the people.
Yeah, same kind of law here in Finland too.
What's the point of a protest if you have to ask for a permit to do so?
Any law that requires a permit to protest is to hell wrong, and as a socialist you should no doubt oppose it.
Not permit,notification.There is a difference.You see,freedom of one man end where freedom of another begins.These demonstrations,if not somehow controlled,can easily paralyze at least a center of big city.Hell,it happened in Kiev.
Also,i am not a socialist(i lack motivation to be one).I just read a lot.And yes,i oppose these laws,but....for me?
Lesser evil.At least for now.
Russia arrests anti-war protestors? It's a sign of Putin's police state dictatorship!
Russia doesn't arrest anti-war protestors? It's a sign of Putin's police state dictatorship!
Anyway, more unpermitted protests.
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Makes you wonder then why the US gov't (probably others) spends so much time and effort inserting agents-provocateurs and informants into anti-war activist groups, anti-sweatshop activist groups, paying internet trolls to defame activists' reputations, etc., etc., ad nauseam.
Or perhaps there's more than one way to crack down than arresting demonstrators?
So, then, even more cynically, whether or not the authorities are arresting protesters is no indication whatsoever that the protesters are or aren't threatening the authorities?
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Yeah, the victim-blaming was rather obnoxious, but I sat through many such conversations regarding Occupy so I guess I'm inured to it.
Anyway, the small "illegal" anti-war demos that my comrades got detained at were more threatening to the authorities than the "legal" anti-war demos that seem to have mobilized tens of thousands? (Although, linked article suggests that, in fact, there were arrests at the latter. Whether or not they were carrying Nazi flags, I couldn't say.)
I mean, it's flattering for my comrades and all, but I'm not sure I believe it.
A couple of days old but...
Australian commie site translates a German interview with one of my Russian comrades (I think).
Turns out, nope, this guy is a member of a different group.
Otoh, it turns out the group he's a member of, the Russian Socialist Movement, is a merger of TWO different groups who each split from the group I'm a member of.
Ultraleft sectarianism, huzzah!
(The woman in the video is still mine, though.)
Russian Socialist Movement
Wait,there are actual socialists in Russia?
Finally,news i can use!
>90% voted in favour of Crimea joining Russian federation
Completely fair election. Just pull the lever to vote no and pull the trigger to vote yes. Ignore that hole in the wall at head height.
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>90% voted in favour of Crimea joining Russian federationCompletely fair election. Just pull the lever to vote no and pull the trigger to vote yes. Ignore that hole in the wall at head height.
Think of it like a we the people poll. More people wanted a deathstar than people who want to be a part of Ukraine. Yet the us president objects to both.
I suppose some of the marines based there might have stripped their insignia for the operations. But that does seem like more of a special forces thing.
But the reports that the troops that are in control of Crimea are Russian military seem pretty solid, despite Putin's lies about them.
And here we have one of two options:
1:Putin is sooooo stupid that he officially declared russian military forces unlawful militants,which paints on them crosshairs the size of Crimea,or
2:He did not lie.Somehow.
How?We aren' told.Yet,hopefully.Possibilities are endless!
Pretending that there is any doubt in this matter is so mind bogglingly disingenuous as to cast your other arguments into doubt.
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It was, apparently seriously, arguing that the Soviet Union was a representative democracy that did if for me.Pretending that there is any doubt in this matter is so mind bogglingly disingenuous as to cast your other arguments into doubt.I suppose some of the marines based there might have stripped their insignia for the operations. But that does seem like more of a special forces thing.
But the reports that the troops that are in control of Crimea are Russian military seem pretty solid, despite Putin's lies about them.
And here we have one of two options:
1:Putin is sooooo stupid that he officially declared russian military forces unlawful militants,which paints on them crosshairs the size of Crimea,or
2:He did not lie.Somehow.
How?We aren' told.Yet,hopefully.Possibilities are endless!
moreso than a Ukraine ruled by unelected politicians and their billionaire friends. Only nazi Germany compared to that.
Pretending that there is any doubt in this matter
There is absolutely no doubt that this is the russian operation.
Question is,how it was accomplished?Because,you know,you cannot just move military units without anyone noticing.And we are told that these are not russian military.Taking this as a face value(because no-one can prove otherwise),possibilities are literally endless.Wild guess of the hour:OMON or SOBR.
Paramilitary units,very good equipment(and can be equipped with anything if need arises),not in any way part of russian military,which doesn't stopped them from engaging and any and all russian-involved conflicts from last 20 years.
How would it paint crosshairs on them anyway? First they're armed and equipped and trained at least as well as the Ukrainian troops, so any attacks wouldn't be just a quick slaughter.
Have you,by chance,heard the term"force concentration"?
Ukraine has an ARMY.At least in theory.Use numerical superiority to capture some of militants,and let them speak on TV that they are russian military.Agression exposed,and it becomes far easier to request foreign aid/intervention.Soviet Union was a representative democracy that did if for me.
Of course it was.At least on paper.And that's what counts.
TThe Finns, with their long experience with Russian foreign assistance,
What experience,again?And how do you tell difference between paramilitary police and special forces if they are identically equipped?And how do you stealthy move regiment across half a country and over border,without anyone noticing?
If you don't get that joke
That was some very strange joke.
It implied that experience from 70 years ago somehow allows Finns to be competent in any way in identifying modern russian units.I choose not to get it.
In other news,
"100.000" strong pro-russian protests in Donetsk
Is it just me or is it not nearly a 100k?
Oh well.Ukraine's(?)5th channel claimed that's 1k.
Truth be told, Putin might be on the short list of dudes that turn me on, so to cool down, I started reading some other articles.
That last one, of course, was RT, which, we all know, is Kremlin-propaganda, so take it with a grain of salt.
As far as Machiavellian shiznit in order to control naval fleet docks go, I gotta say, gunpoint referendums are a bit more 21st century than princesses torturing doctors.
EDIT: Woops, I forgot my Egypt link.
As far as Machiavellian shiznit in order to control naval fleet docks go, I gotta say, gunpoint referendums are a bit more 21st century than princesses torturing doctors.
Actually,Sevastopol is just a base.
You can build base,and easily.I recall that russians planned to use Novorossiysk as new base for BSF when/if lease terms for Sevastopol expire.REAL prize is Nikolayev.
Primary ship-building site of USSR.
From what i know,all of Russia's carriers were built there.
Too bad it isn't in Crimea(
Whatever, Russkie.
More fun with Kremlin propaganda:
Rabbi in Crimea urges Jews to leave Ukraine, fears neo-Nazi attacks
Ukraine's Right Sector leader threatens to blow up pipeline from Russia to EU
Which, you know, is fair game, I guess, but watch it, Dmitry's a real peach.
EDIT: Both of 'em, actually. Didn't notice it was two different dudes when I saw it over my buddy's house.
Dmitry's a real peach.
Wait,Russia has pipelines on Ukraine's territory?That's news.
And i thought they belonged to Ukraine.Stupid me.
Also....how much Ukraine gets in transit fees,again?
Question is,how it was accomplished?Because,you know,you cannot just move military units without anyone noticing
We DID Notice. That's why we're having this conversation.
We DID Notice.
Nope.Where are the photos/videos from Moscow of them packing and moving?
As one of the more scary units,they must be watched 24/7.ANYONE has the phone with camera now.
And most cars in Russia are nowadays equipped with video registrators.
So, Citizen Koroboff, if you don't mind me asking, where do you live? And if, in fact, rpging has finally taken hold in the land of the October Revolution-huzzah!--what is the chance, you think, that you could get me an English set of Lenin's Collected Works? Or, for that matter, Lenin?
So, Citizen Koroboff, if you don't mind me asking, where do you live?
Moscow.How else can i attend Peace March or howtheyarecallingit?(also,do you know difference between Citizen and Comrade in USSR language?)
rpging has finally taken hold in the land of the October Revolution
At least for 20 years for LARP and 15 for tabletops.What's more,substantial numbers of post-WW2 generation i spoke of played some kind of MTP in their youth.
English set of Lenin's Collected Works
Physical English set?
Not a chance.Book industry here is in crisis,and even in best years translated books were rare as bears near my second house.Of which i know that they exists,but never saw them.
We DID Notice.Nope.Where are the photos/videos from Moscow of them packing and moving?
As one of the more scary units,they must be watched 24/7.
ANYONE has the phone with camera now.
And most cars in Russia are nowadays equipped with video registrators.
There were russian military exercises planned in the western part of russia for months.
They're comming in by boat and planerussia has more than enough airbases in crimea for the troop movements from anywhere in russia it wants.
So, Citizen Koroboff, if you don't mind me asking, where do you live?Moscow.How else can i attend Peace March or howtheyarecallingit?(also,do you know difference between Citizen and Comrade in USSR language?)
Woops. I a) don't always read everybody's posts and b) smoke a lot of dope.
Well, that's a bummer. Last time I saw 'em they were goin' for $500 for the whole set and that was back in the mid-'90s, right after...[sobs]...no, I can't stand to think of it...
There were russian military exercises planned in the western part of russia for months.
West Russia is no Crimea.You still need to transfer units somehow.
russia has more than enough airbases in crimea for the troop movements from anywhere in russia it wants.
After initial operation,in which "self-defence"units established control of Crimea(and ESPECIALLY of Crimean air defence grid),yes.
And of course, it's pretty logical to reinforce BSF to the limit in case Ukraine tries something funny.But remember,situation escalated really fast.Transfer of real military unit on day's notice stealthy is really hard.
But police unit?
Hell,they are civilians.
They just went up and go,and received equipment from BSF stores on the spot.Also,far better trained to keep peace and order than military SF.
And this is just a theory i made on the spot in five minutes!
I am pretty sure that people who planned this operation are faaar smarter than me.
Well, that's a bummer. Last time I saw 'em they were goin' for $500 for the whole set
Money isn't everything.That monstrocity takes HUGE amount of space.More than my collection of Pathfinder,in fact!
Which is another reason i think Stalin is a better writer.
Why is anybody shocked that the majority ethnic russian crimea voted in favor of russian annexation? Their heating bills are about to go way down! Heck my family in the NE USA would vote to join Russia after this winter's heating bills.
Why is anybody shocked that the majority ethnic russian crimea voted in favor of russian annexation? Their heating bills are about to go way down! Heck my family in the NE USA would vote to join Russia after this winter's heating bills.
I do not think that heating bill are serious problem in Crimea.But then,i've never been there in winter)
But mad dollarz,in one way or another,i think,was one of primary reasons,yes.Even for Crimean Tatars!
The US now accepts Russia's diplomatic solution to the situation in Ukraine, which has been Russia's position following the Kiev revolution BEFORE any events in Crimea, albeit ignored up till now with NATO enjoying their moment of victory. I guess that means Nuland et al will be handing down commands to their hand-picked clique in Kiev to no longer be imposing governors backed by armed forces from Kiev to control local governments, no longer criminalize Ukrainians calling for federalism and local elections of governors, etc, and presumably have to stop political repression happening on their territory . (FYI, Nuland was one of Obama regime's many hold-over officials from Bush era, Nuland in fact having been an aide to Cheney)
from Moon of Alabama blog:
There was another phone call today between Secretary of State Kerry and the Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov. The call came after a strategy meeting on Ukraine in the White House. During the call Kerry agreed to Russian demands for a federalization of the Ukraine in which the federal states will have a strong autonomy against a central government in a finlandized Ukraine. Putin had offered this "off-ramp" from the escalation and Obama has taken it.
The Russian announcement:
Lavrov, Kerry agree to work on constitutional reform in Ukraine: Russian ministry
(Reuters) - Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry agreed on Sunday to seek a solution to crisis in Ukraine by pushing for constitutional reforms there, the Russian foreign ministry said. It did not go into details on the kind of reforms needed except to say they should come "in a generally acceptable form and while taking into the account the interests of all regions of Ukraine". ... "Sergei Viktorovich Lavrov and John Kerry agreed to continue work to find a resolution on Ukraine through a speedy launch of constitutional reform with the support of international community," the ministry said in a statement.The idea of "constitutional reform" and the "interests of all regions" is from the Russians as documented in this Russian "non-paper".
The non-paper describes the process of getting to a new Ukrainian constitution and sets some parameters for it. Russian will be again official language next to Ukraine, the regions will have high autonomy, there will be no interferences in church affairs and the Ukraine will stay politically and militarily neutral. Any autonomy decision by the Crimea would be accepted. This all would be guaranteed by a "Support Group for Ukraine" consisting of the US, EU and Russia and would be cemented in an UN Security Council resolution.
It seems that Kerry and Obama have largely accepted these parameters. They are now, of course, selling this solution as their own which is, as the "non-paper" proves, inconsistent with the reality.
Here is Kerry now suddenly "urging Russia" to accept the conditions Russia had demanded and which Kerry never mentioned before:
Secretary of State John Kerry called on Moscow to return its troops in Crimea to their bases, pull back forces from the Ukraine border, halt incitement in eastern Ukraine and support the political reforms in Ukraine that would protect ethnic Russians, Russian speakers and others in the former Soviet Republic that Russia says it is concerned about.
In a phone call with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, their second since unsuccessful face-to-face talks on Friday in London, Kerry urged Russia "to support efforts by Ukrainians across the spectrum to address power sharing and decentralization through a constitutional reform process that is broadly inclusive and protects the rights of minorities," the State Department said.
Obama has given up. His empty threats had now worked and he now has largely accepted the Russian conditions for the way out of the crisis.
The U.S. plot to snatch the Ukraine from Russia and to integrate it into NATO and the EU seems to have failed. Russia taking Crimea and having 93% of the voters there agree to join Russia has made the main objective of the U.S. plans, to kick the Russians out of Sevastopol and thereby out of the Middle East, impossible.
The Russian (non public) threat to also immediately take the eastern and southern provinces from the Ukraine has pushed the U.S. into agreeing to the Russian conditions mentioned above. The only alternative to that would be a military confrontation which the U.S. and Europeans are not willing to risk. Despite the anti-Russian campaign in the media a majority of U.S. people as well as EU folks are against any such confrontation. In the end the U.S. never held the cards it needed to win this game.
Should all go well and a new Ukrainian constitution fit the Russian conditions the "west" may in the future well be allowed to pay for the monthly bills Gazprom will keep sending to Kiev.
It will take some time to implement all of this. What dirty tricks will the neocons in Washington now try to prevent this peaceful outcome?
Apparently, local activists in Donetsk and Luhansk regions stopped the movement of heavy armored vehicles, turning them back:
Interestingly, the detail of unidentified armed men over-ruling the unit commander conforms to this news about the revolutionary regime imposing "morale officers" onto army units:According to local residents the arrival of the train with airborne combat vehicles and tanks to the Lugansk railway station during twilight caused a stir among the people, Interfax reported. Locals from the nearby villages gathered at the spot and started to prevent the disembarkation of the equipment.
In response to questions about the purpose of the transportation, the Ukrainian troops said that they’ve arrived to Lugansk to fulfill a task which is only known to their commander, as cited by Interfax.
Having received no clear answer, the residents using a locomotive dragged part of the train to a standstill despite the troops’ protests, and barricaded the rails with scrap metal.
Most of the soldiers calmly reacted to the actions of local residents and did not initiate any conflict. Moreover, they stressed that they will not use any violence against civilians.
However, seven young people dressed in uniforms of the Ukrainian armed forces, but without shoulder straps, armed with Kalashnikov rifles with silencers, began to force the unit commander to “obey orders“ to disperse locals and dismantle the barricades.
Reportedly, a scuffle occurred as the unidentified men threatened the residents saying they "betrayed Ukraine." The troops’ commander who defended the civilians was injured in the fight.
Following the incident the residents set up a 24-hour patrol at the spot, guarding the military equipment preventing its further movement.
The "morale officers" already came to the Zhitomir airmobile brigade on Wednesday. They have been appointed mainly from members of the former opposition who were, as the new government says, most active adherents of Ukraine’s integration into Europe. In practice, this means that they were especially aggressive during the unrest in Kiev.
The "morale instructors' are authorized to reveal soldiers and officers who are not very loyal to the current government and who are unwilling to fulfill this government’s orders. They also have the right to remove disloyal officers from their posts.
That also being in addition to the setting up of National Guard units outside of existing army control, whose purpose expressly includes dealing with "internal aggression", and overlapping or taking over police functions. Yet to be seen how those factions respond to the new reality of federalization being accepted by the US.
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More news from unofficial people from Ukraine (as opposed to those who read mostly the Russian propaganda which have been posting on these boards).
FIRST - Something for you to question. WHEN...in ANY REAL FREE VOTE...has anything ever been almost unanimous...or even over 90%. If something is actually over 70% on an approval by a democratic vote...you need to start questioning the vote. IF...in a nation where only 50 - 60% are Russian, 15% were actually kicked out or have had to FLEE Russians in the past...then ANYTHING over 86% should in favor of Russia should automatically start ringing alarm bells. If it's a known fact that at least 15% will vote against Russia...even if Russia was the ONLY nation on earth that could save their lives...then it stands to be that the maximum you could ever get in favor of Russia...would be...85%.
That said...
How did Russia get a 95% favorable vote?
SECOND - This so called referendum...there is NO way it should only have 95%, and I'll tell you...if what I've heard is true. The vote should be 100% in favor.
Why?
When you looked at the ballot...there was only one choice. There was not a NO election. There was ONLY ONE box you could check...that was YES.
The only way I could figure they didn't get 100% is if some people simply refused to mark the ballot and just tossed it in unmarked without a name to be tracked down by the Russian troops that have taken over...
THIRD - Those Russian troops that everyone knows are Russian (except some on these boards who...once again seem to only read Russian Propaganda) the questions are beginning to be tossed that they actually were the majority of those who voted. There were MANY who actually did not or were not allowed to vote.
Once again...no...I don't know the thing from the top...but the 95% should start ringing alarm bells to ANYONE...THAT'S ANYONE...who knows ANYTHING about democratic elections or referendums...
And perhaps the way this was handled should also toss alarm bells. Who the heck does a referendum when you don't have a NO option?
(note: These are the rumors that are just coming out now...I haven't seen any of this mentioned really in the news for either side yet...can't believe no one noted about it...but...then again...these are the rumors from the lower side...the common side which no one seems to listen to anyways...eh?)