How are people supposed to "talk" to Paizo exactly?


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It is obvious that outside of special events like playtests, paizo staff barring mods do not actually read or respond to threads on the forums.

How exactly are people supposed to get stuff clarified by Paizo then, ask them questions, bring issues to their attention, etc?

Yes i know there is a customer service email but im fairly sure thats for order related questions...


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Actually, at the very least James Jacobs very frequently reads the forums and responds to questions, although more lore-related ones or about general gameplay, rather than ones about rules. Several other developers and freelancers post more infrequently, but still it is quite noticeable that Paizo staff outside of the mods reads the forum and interacts with the fans.

Sczarni

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Also many of the books have a "GM clarifications/FAQ" thread in their respective forums (This one for inner sea world guide for examples). many times the developer and/or authors of the books will jump in and answer questions there... If you can't find one for the book in question, make one


The only person i saw respond to issues raised in the general discussion forum was SKR, who usually responded with sarcastic remarks about realism...

There doesnt appear to be any FAQ thread for the Advanced Player's Guide and i'm not sure if it would help if i made one. There have been countless threads posted about a lot of things that require errata, none of which have ever gotten a response...so yes i could make a FAQ thread for the APG but what would be the point if it, like all threads before it, got zero paizo response?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Hi Question, APG faq is right here.


Im confused, that appears to be the FAQ entry for the book, but not a thread where someone can post...


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Question wrote:
Im confused, that appears to be the FAQ entry for the book, but not a thread where someone can post...

It was probably me who was confused, I thought that was what you were looking for, sorry.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

APG FAQ: here. EDIT: ninja'd

Plenty of FAQ requests get an official response. The rules team used to post answers and clarifications using their personal accounts. Look for posts Jason Buhlman or Sean K. Reynolds. Recently they've started using a single account to post rules clarifications and respond to FAQ requests: Pathfinder Design Team.

If you have a rules question, start a thread in the Rules forum. If another messageboard user can't answer it, hit the FAQ button in the upper right corner. That flags it for staff attention. If your question is a good one, other people will FAQ it, making it more likely to get a response sooner.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

In particular, see this post.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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Since when are you entitled to get an answer from staff? They're busy people and there are lots of people on the messageboards.

Most staff email addresses are on the 'Contact Us' page, if you really think you need it.


Except the FAQs hasnt worked for the last 2 years, so i dont see why doing it now would help...

Liberty's Edge

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Sorry, life doesn't progress according to your schedule.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

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Really? Here's an answered FAQ request from two days ago.

You have to use the system for it to work.


I searched and i could not find anyone FAQing that question (at least, by the exact wording used). I dont know if thats a good example of the FAQ system working, because for all i know that might have gotten a FAQ because one of the paizo staff had it brought up in his campaign and he decided to FAQ it. Theres no indication it was FAQed because of the FAQ system.

I did general searches for the question and it looks like as far back as 2010 some people were asking about it but there were no FAQ requests for any of them.

I dont think theres any point to talk about whether or not the FAQ system works, because theres clearly no way to determine if it does other than anecdotal evidence. But if something has been repeatedly flagged through the FAQ system for two years and its still not FAQed, im personally inclined to believe it doesnt work.

Its like if you email your landlord to fix your leaking roof for 2 years and he doesnt so much as reply to you, then you are not going to believe the landlord reads his emails. Sure your neighbour might tell you that he gets a response, but thats not very helpful to you.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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You seem to be under the impression that people are required to talk to you. They're not.

You also seem to be under the impression that staff don't read the messageboards. They do. (Whether or not they have time to get involved in every discussion is another matter, but the posting history of SKR, SRM, James Jacobs and others demonstrates they do chime in, frequently.)

But why, exactly, do you need a FAQ answer or an official errata? One of the great things about the messageboards is you can post a rules question and get a nearly immediate answer from lots of smart people. If the answer is clear, awesome. You don't need a FAQ. If the answer is ambiguous, listen to the arguments, pick an answer you like, and run with that.

You posted this in the Customer Service forum. What exactly did you expect to have happen? For the Customer Service staff to immediately wrangle Jason away from his job to answer you?

If you really need to talk to Paizo staff directly, their email addresses are publicly available. I told you where to find them. I really don't know how your question could be answered more thoroughly.


How do you "talk to Paizo"? Just like you are, by making posts, asking questions, providing comments. Maybe with a bit less of an entitled attitude. You are talking to them every time.

Paizo is incredibly responsive - each of their job descriptions includes spending time interacting with fans on the boards. Their time is not infinite however, so you're not always going to get a direct response.

There are a myriad of very knowledgeable, very dedicated fans who are on these boards, who *do* respond to almost every post. If you've gotten a good answer from one of them, there's not much need for someone from Paizo to respond directly.

More serious or contentious items might get FAQ's. The most serious get errata.

Edit: Or, you know, what Ross said ;þ - Ninja!

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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Ross Byers wrote:
For the Customer Service staff to immediately wrangle Jason away from his job to answer you?

I now wish to see a video of the Dire Carebear and the Gninja physically wrestling the Red Dragon away from his desk.

Someone with animation skills, make it happen!

Webstore Gninja Minion

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Jiggy wrote:

I now wish to see a video of the Dire Carebear and the Gninja physically wrestling the Red Dragon away from his desk.

Someone with animation skills, make it happen!

Could take some doing. I have a cunning plan, though.

...It involves beer.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

cast a sending spell


Liz Courts wrote:
Jiggy wrote:

I now wish to see a video of the Dire Carebear and the Gninja physically wrestling the Red Dragon away from his desk.

Someone with animation skills, make it happen!

Could take some doing. I have a cunning plan, though.

...It involves beer.

Careful, you may accidentally lure out Mike Brock with that, unexpectedly raising your CR.

I hear Scotch is a much more targeted & effective lure.

-TimD

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

29 people marked this as a favorite.
Question wrote:
It is obvious that outside of special events like playtests, paizo staff barring mods do not actually read or respond to threads on the forums.

Evidence contradicting your assertion.

Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.

(I didn't go back farther than mid-January, because I think I've proved my point.)
(And none of the above include about 100 replies to RPG Superstar questions in that same time period.)
(And if you look at my profile, it tells you I've made over 10,000 posts on the Paizo boards.)

Official posts by the design team about FAQ answers posted in response to rules questions.

Don't make false statements when they're so easily disproved by evidence available in just a few clicks.

Designer

15 people marked this as a favorite.
Question wrote:

It is obvious that outside of special events like playtests, paizo staff barring mods do not actually read or respond to threads on the forums.

How exactly are people supposed to get stuff clarified by Paizo then, ask them questions, bring issues to their attention, etc?

Yes i know there is a customer service email but im fairly sure thats for order related questions...

You know, I hate to say this to someone on the messageboards, but you are wrong.

We do spend a lot of time reading and responding to messageboard posts. I spend at least a good hour each day reading posts and compiling lists of issues that are most important and that I think I can help with. You will also notice the staff will spend time posting, moderating, and reading these boards late into the evening and on weekends.

If I can help with an issue immediately, I do. If they are more complex or have many facets (such as the simulacrum issue or the issues involving how scry and teleport interact, we have internal conversations to figure out what is the best way to handle that issue.

In either case the entire Paizo design and development staff take the messageboards, questions and issues that pop up on them very seriously.

Good gaming.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
...

Going to miss your frank, to the point, but helpful posts, Sean. And just going to miss you in general.

:(

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

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*punches the internet*

Managing Editor

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It's true! We *do* read the boards pretty thoroughly, but we also try to spend our time well by answering the questions that we feel would most help people, while at the same time not undermine our business.

So, for instance, since I'm more of a world guy than a rules guy, I get asked a lot about the campaign setting, and I do my best to answer. What I *don't* do, however, is create new canon on the messageboards, because a) selling new information about the setting is what pays the bills, and b) a random thread on the messageboards isn't a good way to disseminate new information--it helps a few people, but not the thousands of others who would see it if it was in a book.

So yeah, we're here for ya, within limits. :D


Question wrote:


I dont think theres any point to talk about whether or not the FAQ system works, because theres clearly no way to determine if it does other than anecdotal evidence. But if something has been repeatedly flagged through the FAQ system for two years and its still not FAQed, im personally inclined to believe it doesnt work.

Its like if you email your landlord to fix your leaking roof for 2 years and he doesnt so much as reply to you, then you are not going to believe the landlord reads his emails. Sure your neighbour might tell you that he gets a response, but thats not very helpful to you.

The FAQ system doesn't work like that - see here for an explanation

It's used to tell Paizo developers how many people are interested in an FAQ response for that particular question, but they still decide which ones to answer first, on their own terms. Typically things that can be answered quickly get answered before things that will need a lengthy explanation. Anything that looks complicated enough to need a dev team meeting likely has to wait a considerable amount of time. Unless it's something that's affecting hundreds or possibly even thousands of players, I don't think it likely any FAQs will get prioritized over people's daily work on whatever books are due out next, and it's quite possible something could sit on the system forever due to there always being newer FAQs that can be answered in less time.

The difference between a Paizo FAQ and the leaking roof in your example is that the leaking roof is somewhat of an emergency. As detailed in the link above, the intention of the game is that the GM should make their own ruling if something in a product is unclear. Think of the GM as your landlord with the responsibility for day to day repairs, and Paizo as the federal government who probably aren't going to show up immediately unless there's something of the severity of an earthquake.


Ross Byers wrote:
You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need.

C'mon Ross, you should have provided the LINK for that....

-- david

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Question wrote:
It is obvious that outside of special events like playtests, paizo staff barring mods do not actually read or respond to threads on the forums.

Evidence contradicting your assertion.

Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.

(I didn't go back farther than mid-January, because I think I've proved my point.)
(And none of the above include about 100 replies to RPG Superstar questions in that same time period.)
(And if you look at my profile, it tells you I've made over 10,000 posts on the Paizo boards.)

Official posts by the design team about FAQ answers posted in response to rules questions.

Don't make false statements when they're so...

Heh, I was going to do something similar with FAQs posted within the specified time frame, but haven't had time and now you've beaten me to the punch.

Can I be your successor?

;)


13 people marked this as a favorite.

Write a letter to Dragon Magazines' Sage Advice column, written by Roger Moore (played James Bond in the 80's). Send your letter to Lake Geneva (Switzerland) and in approximately 2-3 business decades your response will be printed in Dragon Magazine.

Oh yeah, don't forget to include a Self Addressed Stamped Envelop! Apparently there is some sort of "No SASE Ogre" at the magazine who will beat you to death with a great club or something if it's not included! Beware!

Liberty's Edge

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Question wrote:
It is obvious that outside of special events like playtests, paizo staff barring mods do not actually read or respond to threads on the forums.

Evidence contradicting your assertion.

Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.

(I didn't go back farther than mid-January, because I think I've proved my point.)
(And none of the above include about 100 replies to RPG Superstar questions in that same time period.)
(And if you look at my profile, it tells you I've made over 10,000 posts on the Paizo boards.)

Official posts by the design team about FAQ answers posted in response to rules questions.

Don't make false statements when they're so...

What an awesome post!

Question, you obviously have some sort of beef, but it seems it's based on a number of incorrect assumptions on your part ... or something. Maybe taking a step back and a deep breath might be a good idea?


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
*punches the internet*

I was going to joke that in some alternate universe SKRs counterpart was stroking his goatee and thinking, "You know, I'm really going to miss this..."

Then I checked his site and noticed his goatee...
So if that SKR is in our universe, then ...
Oh no!

All jokes aside, Sean, please, please stay on the boards even after your big move!

Liberty's Edge

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While the could have been more diplomatic. So could some of the responses. People on both sides need to calm down.

Silver Crusade

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Wow the level of player entitlement on these boards sometimes is unbelievable.


memorax wrote:
While the could have been more diplomatic. So could some of the responses. People on both sides need to calm down.

Oh, I...concur!

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

8 people marked this as a favorite.
Liz Courts wrote:
Jiggy wrote:

I now wish to see a video of the Dire Carebear and the Gninja physically wrestling the Red Dragon away from his desk.

Someone with animation skills, make it happen!

Could take some doing. I have a cunning plan, though.

...It involves beer.

Did someone mention beer?


3 people marked this as a favorite.

YOU HAVE MY AXE

wait I mean my stein


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I usually go "Yo! Paizo people!" That often works for me, well that or baby pics or videos.

Dark Archive

13 people marked this as a favorite.

If you have the 'Mithril Membership Superscriber' tag (which doesn't show up on your screen unless you have it, so that the hoi-polloi don't know who is or is not a member), your FAQ questions are answered immediately, and, once a year, Lisa comes to your house to tell you a story.

True facts.

And we won't discuss the [redacted], because the first rule of [redacted] is that you don't talk about [redacted].

(Hint, redacted does not mean 'secret forum.' It's way cooler than that.)


Set wrote:

If you have the 'Mithril Membership Superscriber' tag (which doesn't show up on your screen unless you have it, so that the hoi-polloi don't know who is or is not a member), your FAQ questions are answered immediately, and, once a year, Lisa comes to your house to tell you a story.

True facts.

And we won't discuss the [redacted], because the first rule of [redacted] is that you don't talk about [redacted].

(Hint, redacted does not mean 'secret forum.' It's way cooler than that.)

IT'S A BAT PHONE!

I mean... Errr.... Um... It would be cool if it was a bat phone.

I DON'T HAVE A PAIZO BAT PHONE!

runs


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Question wrote:
It is obvious that outside of special events like playtests, paizo staff barring mods do not actually read or respond to threads on the forums.

Evidence contradicting your assertion.

Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.
Evidence contradicting your assertion.

(I didn't go back farther than mid-January, because I think I've proved my point.)
(And none of the above include about 100 replies to RPG Superstar questions in that same time period.)
(And if you look at my profile, it tells you I've made over 10,000 posts on the Paizo boards.)

Official posts by the design team about FAQ answers posted in response to rules questions.

Don't make false statements when they're so...

What about all the month or year old threads that never got a response? All you have done is proven that paizo staff respond to a relatively small portion of issues raised.

Although yes, if you want to get technical about it, i was wrong when saying that paizo doesnt respond at all, i should have instead said that paizo does not respond much.

Sure, i dont expect paizo to respond to literally every single post on the forums, but when people have been asking why the ice tomb hex has no range or duration for more than 2 years and paizo refuses to respond to any of the posts on the topic or FAQ candidates on the issue, people start wondering why. This particular issue was even marked as addressed in the errata/FAQ twice...once in 2011 and once in 2012, but no FAQ/Errata was released. I doubt this is the only issue that hasn't been addressed for a very long time...off the top of my head, the peacebond hex has no range either.

Ironically SKR himself said that the hex was only supposed to target creatures and it would go into the next printing of the book, but that didn't seem to happen either (and still no range/duration for this hex).

Theres a thread in the rules forum on ice tomb that has been there since october last year, but nobody from paizo ever responded to it, and its got, i think, 40+ FAQ requests for it. At bare minimum someone could have posted a quick "hey guys thanks for the heads up we are looking into this" and that would have made everyone happy. But with no indication that paizo has even noticed the thread after like 4 months, its natural that people are going to think that well, paizo really hasnt noticed it.

Since there are some paizo staff here in this thread i would like to take the chance to ask why nobody responded to any of the posts on this issue for more than two years, including the october thread on this issue in the rules forum.


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@Question:

I agree with your goals here, but you are not helping yourself by baiting Paizo staff. I understand your frustration on not getting an answer here. One can only assume that you are running into difficulties playing this option consistently (or at all) because of the extreme lack of information about how this hex is intended to work. We get it, it sucks, and quite frankly I agree with you that there is a serious problem here that Paizo staffers are being quite flip about not addressing.

But even if we think they could be doing better, and we think that our concerns are being dismissed, and we aren't happy about the attitude they convey about it; we shouldn't stoop to the level of disrespect you are engaging here. Come on man, give it a break.


Im not seeing how im baiting paizo staff or showing disrespect here.

Several paizo staff have commented that they do read the forums and respond to issues regularly. OK fair enough.

At which point i would like to know, how is it possible that they have missed the ice tomb issue for the last 2+ years, especially considering that it was marked as answered via the FAQ system not once, but twice, and SKR even said it was going to get fixed, which did not actually happen?

I just want to know what happened here. Did someone forget to upload the FAQ, did someone change their mind about issueing an FAQ, etc...

If Paizo has really missed every single post and FAQ request on this issue for the last 2+ years, then they should simply say so, and end speculation, and tell us that they are now aware of the issue. The speculation is not doing anyone any favors here, especially paizo.

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

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Your original question...

Question wrote:
It is obvious that outside of special events like playtests, paizo staff barring mods do not actually read or respond to threads on the forums.

... has been refuted. Now you're changing the question to

Question wrote:
What about all the month or year old threads that never got a response?

Which isn't what you originally asked.

Question wrote:
All you have done is proven that paizo staff respond to a relatively small portion of issues raised.

No, I've proven that your assertion that "paizo staff... do not actually read or respond to threads on the forums" is utterly false.

Do you think your posting behavior and attitude are more likely to get the staff to answer your about specific rules questions you want answered*, or less likely?

* As opposed to the 90-odd other FAQs the PDT has addressed since March of last year, or the 200-odd other FAQs we answered in the years before we started posting them through the PDT name. Which you've completely discounted because the staff haven't answered the one question that you really want an answer for.


SKR i really dont know why you are pursueing this line of discussion since it doesnt seem like its going to go anywhere constructive. I dont want to get into an internet fight here over exactly how many FAQs Paizo answers or whatever.

I'm not sure if you are still technically a member of Paizo staff, if you are not and are not able to answer the question then please say so.

As i mentioned above, since several paizo staff have commented that yes, they do read and respond to issues raised on the forums, i would like to know why a major class ability still has no range/duration listed after 2+ years of many people asking the same question and submitting FAQ requests for it, including a very large thread in the rules forum since october last year.

And what happened to the FAQs for this that were marked as answered in 2011 and 2012?


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Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Do you think your posting behavior and attitude are more likely to get the staff to answer your about specific rules questions you want answered*, or less likely?

Is the implication here that you'll refuse to respond to the at least sixty-something people who have asked for a response to this ice tomb hex issue because you don't like how one person is talking about it?


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

That doesn't see to be the implication to me. I assumed he was speaking statistically, in which case a direct causal relationship would be heard to establish, and in any case, might be etiologically doubtful, as there might not be one specific cause.

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

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Question, all I'm doing is establishing that you've been proven wrong, yet you keep moving the goalposts in an attempt to put yourself in the right. First it was "paizo staff don't read or respond to threads on the message boards." Then it was, "well, you haven't responded to some of the threads that have been around for a year." Now it's, "there's one thread that hasn't gotten an answer, and I really want an answer to that question." I repeat my query: Is your attitude more likely to get someone to answer your specific rule question, or less likely?

Vivianne, what duties does being a designer at Paizo entail? What is a normal workday for a Paizo designer? How long does it take to develop 32 pages of rules content? How many hours of meetings does a designer have per week? What does the designer do if a freelancer's turnover is poor and the content is unusable? How long is a typical outline for a core book? Do you know? Do you have any understanding of what Jason, Stephen, and I do to get a book finished, how much time it takes, and what we have to do to get it out on time? Do you know what other time-consuming duties we three must do as part of our jobs that have nothing to do with getting the 3-core-books-a-year finished? Because if you don't know these things, you're really not in a position to question why we spend our time on FAQ question X instead of FAQ question Y, or developing project Z.


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I don't see what any of that has to do with what I wrote.

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